Molly spinning and laying on side

[Stefan3289]

Hello all,

I noticed yesterday my Molly was laying on its side at the bottom of the tank. I put him in a breeder net that sits at the top of the tank to prevent him from being picked on and to be closer to the surface for oxygen after doing a 30% water change. He then started to spin and his posture looked weird, so I assumed it was internal parasites and started treatment for API general cure. He was doing a lot better swimming, eating (I gave him a little skinned green peas to help if it was his swim bladder). He was a lot better that night and this morning but when I got back home he is now laying again at the bottom of the breeder net and his spine looks quite bent. Whenever he moves he would do spirals and seems to be breathing hard. Any advice? Here are the water parameters I just tested. Should I do another water change? The API medication says to after the second dose, which i would put in tomorrow. All the other fish seem great and happy.

Temp: 76
Ammonia: .10
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Salinity: around .003/5
PH: 7.6
Hardiness: not sure exact number I believe around 160

 

[Yellow]

Hi Stefan3289,
Sounds like a sim bladder issue.
Ammonia a wee high.
Careful with water changes more than 20% every two-three days.
I wish I could help your fish, I admit I don't have an exact answer for you.
The oxygen by the air flow is a good source of providing more oxygen, rather than the top of the tank where outside could cause other problems.
Perhaps, call Seachem Laboratories. I think they answer calls on a Saturday morning. They have technicians that may direct the right hel for your Molly.
Blessings to your Molly and you!

 

[Stefan3289]

Hi Stefan3289,
Sounds like a sim bladder issue.
Ammonia a wee high.
Careful with water changes more than 20% every two-three days.
I wish I could help your fish, I admit I don't have an exact answer for you.
The oxygen by the air flow is a good source of providing more oxygen, rather than the top of the tank where outside could cause other problems.
Perhaps, call Seachem Laboratories. I think they answer calls on a Saturday morning. They have technicians that may direct the right hel for your Molly.
Blessings to your Molly and you!

Yeah the ammonia is high I had finals this past week so didn’t do my normal weekly cleaning.
I have an oxygen pump as well but mainly I put him there so the others won’t try to pick on him. I’ve had swim bladder before with several of my fish usually they have never spun in circles and had heavy breathing. He lays fine in the net he is in a horizontal normal position but his body looks bent sideways like a slight C shape. I’ve never had this happen before. At first I thought he had hole in head because he has an indent on his right side above his eye. I’ll definitely give them a call tomorrow I hope he makes the night. He was doing really good then all of a sudden got a lot worse. Thanks for the help.

 

[Yellow]

It's been so long since I've seen a fish spin and bent. I thought I knew what's going on...sadly, I don't know.
Yes, I hope he makes it!
And, some fish are warriors and can handle our flaws of not cleaning right at the scheduled day.

 

[Stefan3289]

Unfortunately he did pass away. I’m not sure what happened I think it maybe have been swim bladder as when I gave him peas he was better might have been a temporary relief

 

[Byron]

The erratic swimming and lying on the substrate are symptoms of several different issues, including water parameters (GH, pH and temperature), water conditions (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate), internal protozoan, or genetics, to name a few. "Swim bladder" as the issue is very rare.

The GH is low, at 160 ppm [= 8-9 dH] and may be a factor. The ammonia certainly could be, a mollies are highly sensitive to any form of nitrogen problems. In 30 years I never saw a fish recover; some died fairly soon, some lasted for weeks.

 

[Yellow]

The erratic swimming and lying on the substrate are symptoms of several different issues, including water parameters (GH, pH and temperature), water conditions (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate), internal protozoan, or genetics, to name a few. "Swim bladder" as the issue is very rare.

The GH is low, at 160 ppm [= 8-9 dH] and may be a factor. The ammonia certainly could be, a mollies are highly sensitive to any form of nitrogen problems. In 30 years I never saw a fish recover; some died fairly soon, some lasted for weeks.

The erratic swimming and lying on the substrate are symptoms of several different issues, including water parameters (GH, pH and temperature), water conditions (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate), internal protozoan, or genetics, to name a few. "Swim bladder" as the issue is very rare.

The GH is low, at 160 ppm [= 8-9 dH] and may be a factor. The ammonia certainly could be, a mollies are highly sensitive to any form of nitrogen problems. In 30 years I never saw a fish recover; some died fairly soon, some lasted for weeks.

Stefan3289
So sorry for your loss!

 

[Naughts]

This could be Whirling disease which is caused by Myxobolus cerebralis, a parasite. If you have other fish displaying the symptoms you will need to remove them from the tank to prevent further deaths.
A combination of Furan 2 and Paraguard may help any future casualties.

 

[Byron]

At this point, it is worth mentioning that using any medication can be more of a detriment than benefit, unless it is the best medication (and safest) for the exact issue. As we have seen here, it is not easy to identify a specific problem, certainly not from just symptoms in most cases. Trying "x" medication is not advisable in most all cases because these substances usually affect all the fish by entering into their bloodstream, causing stress or worse. It is a fact that I lost more fish from using medications that I saved during my initial days keeping fish. I learned that without fairly certain identification of the problem, it was better to let nature doits thing; the loss of one fish was preferable to losing half the tank. If it is obviously a disease that is contagious, then treatment is best, and sometimes we have to make educated guesses. But I would never add a substance to the tank water for one problem, it is far too great of a risk.

 

[emeraldking]

Whatever cause it might have been, once a fish starts swirling and stays that way, I've never seen them recover from it with death as a result.

 

[Stefan3289]

This could be Whirling disease which is caused by Myxobolus cerebralis, a parasite. If you have other fish displaying the symptoms you will need to remove them from the tank to prevent further deaths.
A combination of Furan 2 and Paraguard may help any future casualties.

Yeah as of now all the other fish look good. I stopped the medication after he died and put the carbon back into the filter and did a 40% water change. I’ll keep the carbon filter in for the week to make sure all the medication is gone and do 25% water changes biweekly now that I’m on break to get that ammonia down to normal and prevent any possible diseases again.

 

[Byron]

Yeah as of now all the other fish look good. I stopped the medication after he died and put the carbon back into the filter and did a 40% water change. I’ll keep the carbon filter in for the week to make sure all the medication is gone and do 25% water changes biweekly now that I’m on break to get that ammonia down to normal and prevent any possible diseases again.

If ammonia is above zero, an immediate significant water change is usually recommended. Even if the fish seem to live through an ammonia (or nitrite) increase, they have usually been detrimentally affected. Ammonia should always be zero. Which brings up another question...as you are in the USA, does the water authority use chloramine, or chlorine? The former is ammonia and chlorine, and while good conditioners break this down, the ammonia may show up. Nitrifying bacteria and live plants will (or should) rapidly use this ammonia before any adverse impact occurs to fish. It is important to identify the ammonia cause.

Second, biweekly water changes are not anywhere as effective as weekly. And the volume should be greater. Provided the parameters--being GH, pH and temperature--of tank water and tap water are reasonably the same, it can never hurt to change more water. But it can certainly hurt not changing enough. Invisible externally until it is too late, the fish are probably being stressed without sufficient water changes.

 

[Stefan3289]

If ammonia is above zero, an immediate significant water change is usually recommended. Even if the fish seem to live through an ammonia (or nitrite) increase, they have usually been detrimentally affected. Ammonia should always be zero. Which brings up another question...as you are in the USA, does the water authority use chloramine, or chlorine? The former is ammonia and chlorine, and while good conditioners break this down, the ammonia may show up. Nitrifying bacteria and live plants will (or should) rapidly use this ammonia before any adverse impact occurs to fish. It is important to identify the ammonia cause.

Second, biweekly water changes are not anywhere as effective as weekly. And the volume should be greater. Provided the parameters--being GH, pH and temperature--of tank water and tap water are reasonably the same, it can never hurt to change more water. But it can certainly hurt not changing enough. Invisible externally until it is too late, the fish are probably being stressed without sufficient water changes.

I normally do a 40% water change weekly except I was not able to do it for the last week and a half as I had finals for school. I did a 40% water change yesterday but I was told that doing large water changes more than 20% within 2-3 days is not good. As for the plants I would love to try plants if you have any suggestions that would work with mollies. Only thing is I was told mollies need a little salt I have it currently at 1.003 if there would be any plants that works. And yes I am also in the US and my city does use chloramines but I am not sure what the concentration is or how to test that. I use prime as a water conditioner. I’d definitely be happy to suggestions as to what I should do.

 

[Byron]

I normally do a 40% water change weekly except I was not able to do it for the last week and a half as I had finals for school. I did a 40% water change yesterday but I was told that doing large water changes more than 20% within 2-3 days is not good. As for the plants I would love to try plants if you have any suggestions that would work with mollies. Only thing is I was told mollies need a little salt I have it currently at 1.003 if there would be any plants that works. And yes I am also in the US and my city does use chloramines but I am not sure what the concentration is or how to test that. I use prime as a water conditioner. I’d definitely be happy to suggestions as to what I should do.

OK, several things here. First, on the salt...no. Freshwater fish do not need salt (by which we are meaning common salt sodium chloride, there are also mineral salts). While mollies are sometimes kept in brackish and even marine tanks, this is not "necessary," and thee salt can seriously impact other fish (and plants) so it should never be added except as a specific treatment for something that requires it, temporarily.

On the chloramine, this is thee likely source of the ammonia, and it is not a problem. Conditioners like Prime "detoxify" ammonia by changing it to ammonium, but they do not remove it. Only bacteria and plants can actually remove thee ammonia. Prime is effective for astound 36 hours according to Seachem, after which any ammonium will revert back to ammonia in basic water (pH above 7)but as I say, this is not or should not be an issue. And our basic test kits will show ammonia or ammonium as "ammonia."

Water changes...bad advice. Read my article for the whole story.

Regular Partial Water Changes

Byron Hosking November, 2010 (rev April 2021) Nothing is more important when it comes to aquarium maintenance than regular partial water changes. The adage “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” certainly applies here. One frequently reads of products that will reduce the need for...

www.fishforums.net

Understand the situation, but going forward, water changes can often prevent problems, which is always better than having to cure something afterwards.

 

[Stefan3289]

I did read the article and I do understand what it is saying by regular water changes as that’s what I do for both my tanks I do 30/40% weekly. But with the ammonia being elevated in my one tank, should I then wait to do another larger water change at 40%, do two 25% water changes a few days apart, do two 40% water changes a few days apart, or do you have another suggestion?