Miss Wiggle And Big Ian's First Marine Tank!

[Miss Wiggle]

Well we got our new tank yesterday, thanks to everyone for all your help so far.

first here's the pic we took on Ian's phone when we first went to see it, bit blurry but you get the idea!

we didn't realise when we went to pick it up but when we came back and looked at the pic again last night we saw all these yellow mushroom/coral things that he hasn't given us. I think his son keeps marine fish too though so maybe he's given them to him or something. Bit tight really but never mind! Just leaves us more room to put the things we want into it.

so anyway the move went well, everythings in one piece, no one appears to be dead so that's always a good start! we've not got it set up as nicely as he had, we just wanted to get all the LR and coral back in the tank asap last night and we'll tinker with the arrangement of it later, need to find out a bit about the coral's we've got first so we can arrange them closer/furhter from the light, whatever's appropriate for them really.

So here's a few full tank shots

right, so you can stop screaming at the computer now, I know a 30g is no place for a yellow tang. The bloke we got it from had him in the tank long before we knew anything about it. We are planning on re-homing him, we're having a little discussion about it at the moment though. Now you can see from those pics he looks beautiful, his fins are neat and tidy he's not showing any signs of disease so he's obviously been well looked after, but what you can't see from the pics is his behaviour, he's just pacing up and down the tank, you can really see he just wants to go to a massive tank and swim free!

So my thoughts are I want to re-home him asap, our mate at the lfs said he'll take him and sell him on, I know they've a lovely big tank there that he can go in, ad duncan wouldn't sell him to anyone who hasn't got a big enough tank. I really want to take him down there today, the sooner the better for me. But on the other side, he just got moved yesterday which is obviously stressful for the fish, would moving him again in a few days be more stressful than being in a tank that although it's too small he's been in for yrs?? Also Ian wants to basically leave the tank exactly how it is for a week or so, just so we can get a better idea of the general health of the tank and how things are running. I don't know if maybe I'm just being too impatient wanting to change things straight away. So what would you do... re-home him now, or wait a week or two??

right, onto the coral's now. I've been so excited just watching them open and close when you turn the lights on/off.... and even better, last night one of them ate something!! I guess to you guys that's probably like if someone said to me, 'my guppy's just had fry' liek yeah, so, they do it all the time. But Oh my god we were so amazed and excited when it did it. Sure I'll laugh at myself when I read this back in a few months time but ah well. It was very cool.

So this is my favourite one, the one that was eating... is it a sort of mushroom?

now we've some more the same, all grouped together. what I've noticed is these ones are at the edge of the tank and they open and close at anything, the other one is under the filter input and doesn't really open/close much.... Is it anything to do with the positioning? Should we move them, any comments really? Oh and alos the one by itself has moved around a bit overnight, reckon he doesn't like the flow and is trying to get away from it?

Now our big white coral, what is it someone? We've been told it's probably 300 yrs old the mind boggles!!

and the one we think we can identify, a yellow figi leather..... go on corect me, I dare ya

and our little mystery.....the bloke who sold us it said he had no idea what is it and no one's ever been able to identify it, the bloke in the lfs say's he thinks he knows and has told us.... Just wanted to get some other opinions and see what you gusy think. So the wierd blue thing at the front of the pic... what is it??

right fish..... we've discussed the tang before so that just leaves us with the 3 clown fish, we noticed some bullying of the little one when we went to look at the tank so we had planned on just keeping two of the, the big and medium sized ones. Since they've been here however they don't seem to be picking on him anymore, from my experience with FW I'd say that re-arranging the tank has altered they're territories so it's stopped it... but it'll only be a temporary fix and once they settle it'll probably start again. Am I barking up the wrong tree though? Think we're still gonna re-home 1 clown anyway, they're great fish but I wouldn't want to use up all the stocking with just them!

OK so I think that's all the pics.... now our future plans....

well first and foremost is to wait, over the next week we'll probably tinker with the arrangement of the LR etc and just do a load of research. We really want to leave things how they are for a little bit though to judge how healthy the tank is, and if we need to change anything. Then it's clean up crew, from stripping down two FW tanks and re-homing a clown and tang we should have enough store credit with our lfs to get our clean up crew in cos there's none in there right now. Then after a month or so (moneys tight next month cos of Ian's sisters wedding) we're going to replace toe bulb in the UV sterilser and the filter in the RO unit. They're both OK at the moment but will need doing soon so that's our priority. Then after that we can think about stocking. The only definate thing we've decided on is we want a flame angel.... but that's not going to be straight away by any means. Want to learn a lot before getting one. So we'll gradually increase the stocking with things like blenny's, goby's, firefish.... that sort of thing and build up to it. Then there's corals and anenome's. I want a nice size anenome for the clown fish to play in. Coral's are really going to be Ian's teritory so I'll let him post about it later. Gonna be a few months before we start getting much new in though, just loads of research and get used to the maintenance of what we've got first.

Sooooooo loads of questions there and hope you enjoy the pics.

 

[Fillet 'O' Fish]

Nice pic's and lovely tank miss Wiggle
Keep us updated with your progress in the world of salt water !!
I think i'd be scared to take the plunge from fresh to saltwater in case I got it wrong and ended up with a expensive mess!!

 

[Mr Miagi]

So what would you do... re-home him now, or wait a week or two??

Id rehome him after a few days. Let things settle, and then capture him and take him to an LFS. He isnt doing very well in that tank as youve noticed.

Thats a Zoanthid. Just place them anywhere LOL.

Now our big white coral, what is it someone? We've been told it's probably 300 yrs old the mind boggles!!

Thats classic. Even though he just died, I can just see someone selling an unsuspecting newb "a 300 year old beauty!!" in a Steve Irwin accent. LMAO! Common name is Candy Cane coral here. I believe SH might have a profile in the Faq section.

a yellow figi leather..... go on corect me, I dare ya

l
Ok, I will. Its a a yellow FIJI leather, not a FIGI.

and our little mystery.....the bloke who sold us it said he had no idea what is it and no one's ever been able to identify it, the bloke in the lfs say's he thinks he knows and has told us.... Just wanted to get some other opinions and see what you gusy think. So the wierd blue thing at the front of the pic... what is it??

Looks like a different form of Corralline algae. Doesnt look like a coral to me, but you'd really need a close look at it. Does it have polys? Doesnt look it from here. My best guess, macro or Corralline Algae.

Then after that we can think about stocking. The only definate thing we've decided on is we want a flame angel.... but that's not going to be straight away by any means. Want to learn a lot before getting one. So we'll gradually increase the stocking with things like blenny's, goby's, firefish.... that sort of thing and build up to it.

Id get rid of one clown. Just leave the pair, that will leave everything calmer. The tank looks to small to me for a Flame, remember, just because yoube got added volume from a sump/fuge doesnt mean you can add that on to your stocking capability. These fish need room to swim, not just water volume. Blenny's Gobies, Firefish ETC? PLUS a flame angel? Slow down there! Too much. I know your only researching, and havnt bought any yet, but its really best to stock lightly. dont push the boundaries, because things will fail, and with marine tanks, generally the whole tank goes (crashes), not just the fish.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

So what would you do... re-home him now, or wait a week or two??

Id rehome him after a few days. Let things settle, and then capture him and take him to an LFS. He isnt doing very well in that tank as youve noticed.

ok sounds reasonable

Now our big white coral, what is it someone? We've been told it's probably 300 yrs old the mind boggles!!

Thats classic. Even though he just died, I can just see someone selling an unsuspecting newb "a 300 year old beauty!!" in a Steve Irwin accent. LMAO! Common name is Candy Cane coral here. I believe SH might have a profile in the Faq section.

cool, will look it up thanks, is it not likely to be anywhere near 300 yrs old then??

a yellow figi leather..... go on corect me, I dare ya

l
Ok, I will. Its a a yellow FIJI leather, not a FIGI.

what can i say?!?!

and our little mystery.....the bloke who sold us it said he had no idea what is it and no one's ever been able to identify it, the bloke in the lfs say's he thinks he knows and has told us.... Just wanted to get some other opinions and see what you gusy think. So the wierd blue thing at the front of the pic... what is it??

Looks like a different form of Corralline algae. Doesnt look like a coral to me, but you'd really need a close look at it. Does it have polys? Doesnt look it from here. My best guess, macro or Corralline Algae.

unfortunately that's the best pic i could get, the close up one's all came out rubbish

anyone else got any thoughts??

Then after that we can think about stocking. The only definate thing we've decided on is we want a flame angel.... but that's not going to be straight away by any means. Want to learn a lot before getting one. So we'll gradually increase the stocking with things like blenny's, goby's, firefish.... that sort of thing and build up to it.

Id get rid of one clown. Just leave the pair, that will leave everything calmer. The tank looks to small to me for a Flame, remember, just because yoube got added volume from a sump/fuge doesnt mean you can add that on to your stocking capability. These fish need room to swim, not just water volume. Blenny's Gobies, Firefish ETC? PLUS a flame angel? Slow down there! Too much. I know your only researching, and havnt bought any yet, but its really best to stock lightly. dont push the boundaries, because things will fail, and with marine tanks, generally the whole tank goes (crashes), not just the fish.

yeah I just meant that sort of thing, we haven't decided which combinations of fish to get and those are the sorts of things were looking at. Don't worry I'm not planning on ramming it full!!

Done a bit of research and I thought a flame angel would be fine, it's a 30g tank and 3 foot long, if I'm wrong we'll have to go back to the drawing board though

thanks for all the help

fillet o fish - thanks, i will keep updating this. It's a move we'd been toying with for some time, then got offered too good a deal to pass up. Unfortunately he wanted shot of the tank fairly wuick so we're having to learn very very fast Fingers crossed we haven't messed anything up too badly yet. I'm just taking as much advice as I can get and taking things slowly. keep your fingers crossed for me!!

 

[SkiFletch]

Tank looks fantastic Miss Wiggle, you guys did a great job moving it. Your zoas and candycane look happy which indicates the water quality must be at least reasonable . I noticed you've also got some musrooms on some of your LR as well.

I agree with Mr Miagi in that one clown and the tang should be taken back in a couple days. Say tues or wed, or whatever works convenient for you guys. Once thats done I'd look into altering your aquascaping a little bit to your liking. You seem to have enough to do some creative things with it, so go for it. Remember, the livestock can handle a day of cloudiness every now and again, same thing happens on natural reefs when storms come through.

As for the flame angel, in my oppinion you can have one in that tank. I wouldnt keep too many other fish in with him. Maybe the pair of clowns, a blenny and a gobie or two and the flame. Try to limit yourself to 6 fish total. At this point though I'd be most concerned with cleanup crew. What if any does the tank have currently?

Also have you done any chemistry tests? (pH, sg, temp, NH4, NO2, NO3, phosphate, calc, alk)

And what lighting does the tank have?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Tank looks fantastic Miss Wiggle, you guys did a great job moving it. Your zoas and candycane look happy which indicates the water quality must be at least reasonable . I noticed you've also got some musrooms on some of your LR as well.

I agree with Mr Miagi in that one clown and the tang should be taken back in a couple days. Say tues or wed, or whatever works convenient for you guys. Once thats done I'd look into altering your aquascaping a little bit to your liking. You seem to have enough to do some creative things with it, so go for it. Remember, the livestock can handle a day of cloudiness every now and again, same thing happens on natural reefs when storms come through.

As for the flame angel, in my oppinion you can have one in that tank. I wouldnt keep too many other fish in with him. Maybe the pair of clowns, a blenny and a gobie or two and the flame. Try to limit yourself to 6 fish total. At this point though I'd be most concerned with cleanup crew. What if any does the tank have currently?

Also have you done any chemistry tests? (pH, sg, temp, NH4, NO2, NO3, phosphate, calc, alk)

And what lighting does the tank have?

thanks Ski, we've moved all the tank water in bags so it's exactly the same as what they were in before. Not done any tests as yet, was planning on sussing out the test kit tonight, will post some stats when I get the chance.

yup mushroom's too, forgot to mention those.

yeah that's pretty much what we had in mind for the stocking, 1 centerpiece fish, like the flame angel, then about 5 other small fish.

Yup clean up crew is the biggest issue, it has absolutely none, as soon as we return the fish we're getting some, we should have about 40/50quid credit with the store now so that should be enough to at least start it!!

Yeah I'm sure we'll do nothing but re-arrange it over the next few weeks, wanted to find out exactly what coral's we had first though so we could assess where they wanted to be, then we can arrange accordingly.

It's got a metal halide light, I don't know the wattage but it's bloody bright!! Were thinking of installing a blue bulb as well at some point. Just got so many plans and things to save up for though it's gonna be running as it is (equipment wise) for a little bit yet. Everything's healthy so it's obviously working so I don't think we need to be too concerned about tinkering just yet.

 

[BigIan]

i think its a 250w metal halide. got to have a look to confirm it though, i`m going to add a t8 bulb aswell to have on most of the day and only have the halide on for 4 or 5 hours during the evening as it heats the water up to much.

the tang and the baby clown will be going to the LFS this weekend, hes feeding happily and hes healthy so 6 or 7 days should be ample rest before moving him again, as for testing the water i`m going to see what test kits we have with the tank as its all a bit of a jumble....

would the fresh water test kits work on SW too???

 

[SkiFletch]

Those corals should be ok in most parts of a small tank like yours. Just try to keep the candycane away from dead flow spots and you should be fine. The zoos and shrooms are pretty adaptable as far as both light and flow are concerned, they're pretty hardy as far as corals go, so no need to treat them with kid gloves

 

[BigIan]

thanks ski, we owe you a beer. and mr miagai too. fo4r all the help you`ve given us...
i`m loving the look of this tank, the marine thing has so much potential

 

[Mr Miagi]

thanks ski, we owe you a beer. and mr miagai too. fo4r all the help you`ve given us...
i`m loving the look of this tank, the marine thing has so much potential

SH once stated he'd shout me a beer, so I need to head to Leeds and NYC! No problems anyways guys, you two seem well on the ball, and are actually interested in reasearching, so you'll be alot better off.

As for the FW test kits working on SW, na. Nice try though!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

thanks ski, we owe you a beer. and mr miagai too. fo4r all the help you`ve given us...
i`m loving the look of this tank, the marine thing has so much potential

SH once stated he'd shout me a beer, so I need to head to Leeds and NYC! No problems anyways guys, you two seem well on the ball, and are actually interested in reasearching, so you'll be alot better off.

As for the FW test kits working on SW, na. Nice try though!

key to doing anything well is to know when you need help and ask for it!!

we're well aware that it's not an easy hobby and ideally we'd have liked to have done a lot more research before getting the tank, but he wanted shot of it quick and it was a bargain so we just said lets go for it knowing full well we'd have a very steep learning curve. I've barely been off the net the last 2 weeks researching it all. Seems to be paying off though.... well nothing's dead so we can't be doing that bad!!

ah well, would have been nice about the test kits!!

he gave us all his assorted fishy stuff form his cupboards, there's a load of test kit stuff we're gonna have a look through tonight. Is it just the tests that ski mentioned earlier that we need to do or is there anything else.

Also we'll want to get our own decent test kit fairly soon, can anyone recommend one?

Thanks

 

[Miss Wiggle]

OK so we have readings.... and I think we have a problem

ph - 7.8
sg 1.0215
amonia - 0.0
nitrite - 0.0
nitrate - 70 bugger bugger bugger
phosphate 0.2
temp 26

OK so the obvious problem to me is the nitrate, that's waaaaaay high. Water change to get it down I guess?? Only problem is our RO unit isn't hooked up yet as it doesn't hook up to a standard tap and Ian needs to get some stuff and tinker with the plumbing this weekend. We'd planned to just use RO from the lfs in the mean time. But it's late now, lfs is shut, we're both working tomorrow so not gonna be able to get any until tomorrow night. Is this too long to wait to do a change?? I remembered I had some Tetra Nitrate Minus I'd used in one of the FW tanks a few months back so thought I'd just have a look at it, It say's it's OK for SW too....... but I'm scared, and as a general rule I'd rather not add chemicals to the tank if I can avoid it. So...... do I add the nitrate minus stuff, or wait until tomorrow eve when we can do a water change with RO???

Also we thought a fairly big water change, about 30%, that sound reasonable??

I'd appreciate a quick response, thanks

 

[SkiFletch]

And a quick response you shall have. If the tetra nitrate minus product is a solid ceramic media that binds up nitrate within the media, go ahead and use it. If its a liquid chemical additive then dont. Those ceramic media work wonders for both phosphate and nitrate problems and dont pose a threat to the tank so long as you use them in their reccomended timeframes. Most ceramic anti-chemical media shouldnt be in the tank for more than a week to prevent over-saturation of the substrate. I've used a ceramic phosphate binder to great success in my tank when phosphates rear their ugly head.

Your nitrate problem is very common for newly moved tanks. All the detritus got kicked up and decomposed even further during the move. Since its an established tank the ammonia and nitrite were processed very quickly by the LR, but such a bloom in available nutrients overwhelms the tank's ability to process nitrate. Very common.

Before you get all worried, let me ask you some Q's.
What brand of test kit are you using?
How old is it?
Are you using a saltwater color read strip for it?

Nitrate test kits are inherently defective so I wouldnt be too concerned yet. So long as your corals (specifically the candycane) look ok I wouldnt be concerned. Signs of stress to the corals include shrinking/shriveling, discoloration, or over-swelling. If your test kit is indeed accurate (which I have doubts on), its not a dire problem that cant be fixed by going to the LFS tommorrow for some water. Here's what I'd do if I were you:

Take a sample of your water to the LFS and ask them to test it for you. If the nitrates are 40 or less, just get a little RO. If in fact they're up in the 70-80 range, get enough RO for that 30g water change to get them back down to acceptable levels.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

thanks Ski... I was hoping you'd come on to help!!!

this is from the back of the tetra nitrate minus bottle

- Nitrate Minus consists of mini particles in a clear liquid which biologically reduce nitrate. This is not a biocide
- Nitrateminus promotes the activity of microorganisms. These useful bacteria use up nitrate and transform it into harmless substances
- The nitrate removing activity of microorganisms also stabilises KH and PH to further help keep aquariums healthy.

So... erm not a ceramic thing... I don't think ???

I'd guessed it was due to the move, sort of started a mini cycle of sorts??

before I get all worried ?? ha ha you really don't know me, I panic at everything

lord only knows how old the test kit is, it's what we got with this tank, we are gonna upgrade and get ourselves a decent one soon.
test kit is made by aquarium systems, you get a little test tube type thing, put the sachet of powder in, follow the instructions i think for this one it's wait 3 minutes and there's a little coloured acrylic strip thing you put in next to it and you take the reading from that.

The candycane (and everything else) still looks fine. I'll take some water to the lfs and get some RO tomorrow. The RO unit at our favourite lfs was broken at the weekend though, gonna ring tomorrow and see if it's fixed, if not there's a marine specialist shop in leeds I'll have to try and find.

Oh and also... the skimmer....... it's doing something, there's all these little bubbles coming up the tube... but nothing's gathered in the top like it's meant too...... why... help?!

 

[SkiFletch]

Ok yeah, disregard that reading entirely if you cant be sure how old the test kit is. Nitrate and Phosphate test kits go bad over a 1-2 year period (depending on how long they spent in a warehouse and on shelves). Also, those powder kits are inherently inaccurate. Also, dont use the tetra chemical remover, thats not what you want.

When purchasing new test kits, just get a nitrate, phosphate, calcium, and alkalinity test. ammonia, nitrite, and pH kits dont go bad very often and have a MUCH longer shelf life. I dont know whats available in your area, but Salifert makes the best kits here in the states and I STRONGLY reccomend them. They're a bit pricey but they are by far and away the most accurate. If you cant find a salifert, get a liquid-only test kit. Powder and strip kits are very very inaccurate.

So for the nitrates, sit back, relax, and just go to your LFS with a sample tommorrow and see whats up

As for the skimmer, what model skimmer is it? If you dont know, can you take a pic of it? MOST skimmers require some adjustment in operation. The way mine operates, there is a valve on the air inlet line to control the amount of air injected into the venturi, and a valve on the skimmer output to control the height of water in the column. I tweak the inlet valve open as much as possible to get a lot of air in the column, and then adjust my skimmer outlet valve to get bubbles forming near the top of the cup. They'll travel up to the tip of the cup and break around the edges and in a couple days I'll have a yellow-brown sludge in there that I remove and empty.