Methylene Blue vs Antibiotics Treatment

[Fishfunn]

I know there are a lot of members who live in countries that do not allow the over-the-counter purchase of antibiotics without a veterinarian's prescription. I live in the US and have found antibiotics to heal bacterial infections very fast. Do you think that Methylene Blue is as effective against bacterial infections as antibiotics?

 

[MaloK]

No, Methylene Blue is not generally considered as effective against bacterial infections.

Methylene Blue is more like a mild antiseptic. It can be helpful for fungal infections and some parasites.

It can also help with oxygen transport in fish and soften nitrite/ammonia poisoning.

For external bacterial infection on fins or skin (like fin rot), malachite green has more chance of doing the job.

I used a mix of both and salt (no salt with catfishes) to treat unknown external illness with success more than once.

As for the speed and effectiveness of the treatment, for serious bacterial infections antibiotics are the go-to medication.

 

[10 Tanks]

Hello. I've never used medications. I have used salt and a more aggressive water change routine to ensure my fishes' overall health. Medications are risky, because you don't know how each fish will react to them. I leave them out of the tank water.

10

 

[GaryE]

It's not even close. If it were, there would be no need for antibiotics in human medicine.

methelyne blue is good against Ich (but not the best) and some skin parasites.

Hello. I've never used medications. I have used salt and a more aggressive water change routine to ensure my fishes' overall health. Medications are risky, because you don't know how each fish will react to them. I leave them out of the tank water.

10

The problem above is that salt is a chemical medication in a freshwater tank. I use it when I must, but it's a harsh one, and is very slow to remove. It's an old aquarium myth that salt isn't a medication, or that it's natural. It is very unnatural and potentially harmful to rainforest species.

I can't get legally available over the counter antibiotics where I am. I use quarantine and prevention, and do tend to lose newly bought fish that fall ill with anything other than parasites during their quarantine. I have no effective treatments. I could buy black market antibiotics (there's always a black market) but I don't. I'm fortunate to have reliable sources for fish, so problems aren't common.

 

[Ichthys]

Methylene Blue is very effective against a wide range of bacterial infections.
Antibiotics tend to be much stronger, but they're producing an ever-increasing number of antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria. Also regular exposure creates a diminished immunity to bacterial pathogens, so they should be used as little as possible, and only for those bacteria that can't be killed by lesser methods. The problem with that is, in the US, you don't have much alternative.

Btw, it's a myth that catfish are intolerant of salt. They're not, generally.

 

[MaloK]

Methylene blue have shown some effectiveness in limited scope, it's not a standalone treatment. I have never seen "Very effective" and "A wide range of bacterial infections" in any paper I read. It can be effective against certain gram-positive bacteria, but it's effectiveness concerns fungus and parasites in the first place.

It has proven beneficial when combined with... Antibiotics.

I always considered the concentration of salt required to do a successful treatment too high for catfishes. It principally target parasites and is nearly no help with bacterial infections. It's habitually used as supportive measure and help with stress reduction.

 

[10 Tanks]

It's not even close. If it were, there would be no need for antibiotics in human medicine.

methelyne blue is good against Ich (but not the best) and some skin parasites.


The problem above is that salt is a chemical medication in a freshwater tank. I use it when I must, but it's a harsh one, and is very slow to remove. It's an old aquarium myth that salt isn't a medication, or that it's natural. It is very unnatural and potentially harmful to rainforest species.

I can't get legally available over the counter antibiotics where I am. I use quarantine and prevention, and do tend to lose newly bought fish that fall ill with anything other than parasites during their quarantine. I have no effective treatments. I could buy black market antibiotics (there's always a black market) but I don't. I'm fortunate to have reliable sources for fish, so problems aren't common.

Hello Gary. I've found standard aquarium salt to be the best medication on the market. It's effective against fungus, bacteria, and external parasites. Most pathogens that can infect a tank find reproduction difficult in water that has a trace of salt in it. I dissolve a healthy handful in my replacement water every time I perform a water change. I'll swear by this stuff.

10

 

[TwoTankAmin]

methylene Blue was originally used as a dye.

Pharmacology and mechanism of action​

Methylene blue acts as a reducing agent to reduce methemoglobin to hemoglobin. The action of methylene blue is particularly important when it is used to convert methemoglobin to hemoglobin in erythrocytes.

Erythrocytes are red blood cells. So M B will reverse the effects of nitrite poisoning. This means it clears the system of the effects. However. it stains the heck out of things and I would want to move affected fish to a container it won't stain or you don't care about- (like a Rubbmaid of some sort or a big glass bowl for smaller fish).

Fritz Aquatics says

Methylene Blue effectively prevents and protects against superficial fungal infections of fishes, and also protects newly laid fish eggs from fungal or bacterial infections. As a secondary use, it is also effective against some external protozoans, including Ichthyophthirius (Ich).

Their directions say

To aid in general disease prevention, detoxification of fishes suffering from nitrite or cyanide poisoning and for use as a prophylaxis against
fungus infections of fish spawns (eggs), add 10 drops per gallon (3.78 liters) or 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons (37.8 liters) of water (this will result in 3 ppm Methylene Blue). Discontinue carbon filtration but keep all other filtration running during treatment. Replace carbon after treatment.

Both quotes above are from Fritz Methylene Blue.

And for ich I would use something containing Malachite Green and Formaldahyde or else I would use Flubendazole. I have them both.

I was told to use it for cory eggs by a breeder over 20 years ago. he also told me I needed to get it out of the water before the fish went free swimming as it harmed their gills. When I discovered what is now sold as Fritz Maracyn Oxy was a decent anti-fungal I switched to that. It is clear and does not stain. Maracyn Oxy

I think I would generally buy an antibiotic if that was what form of treatment I needed rather than using either M B or Maracyn Oxy for that purpose. But that is just my opinion.

edited to fix a typo

 

[Ichthys]

Ah, salt, the double-edged sword of fishkeeping. Some people use it all the time as a matter of course, because without it their fish get diseases. It's a terrible substance for beginners because they never really learn how to keep fish properly, and end up needing to use it all the time, thus perpetually keeping freshwater fish badly. You can keep fish in conditions that would cause diseases if there's salt in the tank, so you never learn how to keep them stress-free. They're permanently stressed by the salt, but you don't know that because the diseases don't happen, to tell you.
I never use salt even for disease treatment, but if I was in the US I probably would, over antibiotics.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Salt has some uses but many FW have no need for it. For one, the chloride in salt blocks nitrite from entering a fish. So it is useful in situations where on has to deal with it when there are fish present. The amount needed is much less than one would use for medicating.

I use both salt and antibiotics as well as a host of other medications when any of them are needed. The last fish I medicated was a large clown loach with wasting disease. That was almost one year ago.

The disease I have had to treat the most ove the past almost 24 years is Flexibacter columnaris and I have almost always succeeded when I caught it in time.

When I got into the hobby I was on a now long defi=unct site which had Robert T. Ricketts aka RTR as a member. He was a legend in the hobby back then and his articles are still quoted to day. The omne he did on salt is still the one I suggest folks read. Many of the articles are on the Aquarium Wiki and in the Puffer Forum Library:

This is the easier format to read from Wiki The Salt of the Earth, the Salt from the Sea
This will also lead to the Puffer forum with many of his otther articles. The Salt of the Earth, the Salt from the Sea . . .

 

[Fishfunn]

Hello Gary. I've found standard aquarium salt to be the best medication on the market. It's effective against fungus, bacteria, and external parasites. Most pathogens that can infect a tank find reproduction difficult in water that has a trace of salt in it. I dissolve a healthy handful in my replacement water every time I perform a water change. I'll swear by this stuff.

10

The problem I have with adding salt to my aquarium is my fresh water plants dont do well with it.

 

[Ram419]

However. it stains the heck out of things and I would want to move affected fish to a container it won't stain or you don't care about- (like a Rubbmaid of some sort or a big glass bowl for smaller fish).

I was told to use it for cory eggs by a breeder over 20 years ago. he also told me I needed to get it out of the water before the fish went free swimming as it harmed their gills. When I discovered what is now sold as Fritz Maracyn Oxy was a decent anti-fungal I switched to that. It is clear and does not stain. Maracyn Oxy

I always move sick fish to a different container to med if it's only a couple fish affected. No sense in messing up a whole tank unless the whole tank is affected. I've been using mason jars (I keep smaller fish).

I hatched cory eggs which are now juveniles starting with Methylene Blue for the eggs and slowly changed the water out over a week until it was gone. I wasn't aware it would harm the fish if it was still there however the advice I was listening to did say to slowly remove it. Interesting about hte Maracyn Oxy.

 

[Ichthys]

I think I would generally buy an antibiotic if that was what form of treatment I needed rather than using either M B or Maracyn Oxy for that purpose.

Maracyn is an antibiotic.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Maracyn is an antibiotic.

Yes it is. But years back Mardel was acquired by Fritz which changed some of the product names. Reread my post you will see I did not mention Fritz Maracyn®, which is Erythromycin. What I mentioned was Fritz Maracyn® Oxy. I have used this since it was a Mardel product called MarOxy.
https://fritzaquatics.com/products/...me-aquariums/freshwater-treatments-by-disease

I used to buy Maracyn or Erythromycin based on how much the 100 tablets (available in the past) cost. When I needed to restock I chose whichever was cheaper. I used to keep a well stocked medicine kit so I could deal with most of what I might need to treat. I learned that fish will usually get sick when getting the needed med was not next day.

 

[GaryE]

If we swing back to the original question, I think the thread title should be meth blue and antibiotics. They aren't "or" as they accomplish different things. I wish we had an alternative to antibiotics for fish, as there are issues with misuse and overuse in untrained or unskilled hands. But they don't exist. Those of us who live where over the counter antibiotics are regulated have to work with prevention.
Imagine a doctor who has salt, a couple of mutagenic dyes, some antibiotics but no labs, and some dewormers. Welcome to the world of aquarium fish medications - as primitive and ineffective as could be. we have options with gutworms and nematodes, and we handle skin parasites reasonably well. After that?