Marine Newbie

[Se7enUK]

Firstly I would just like to say hello and wow what a busy forum. I did post this in the newbie section but was told its probably more appropiate to post here.

I am a complete novice with regards fish, I have only looked after two gold fish in the past and now have decided to take a step and look at possibly setting up my own marine tank.

I have just bought a 370 litre tank (Rena Aqualife Corner 120) and I am eventually want to look at setting up a marine tank. I appreciate that there is a lot for me to learn and want to do it right, even if it means I have a considerable wait until even have any fish. I have been reading up and continue to read more and more on different set ups and ways that a successful enviroment can be achieved.

There are probably some people reading this and thinking "what an idiot" and can appreciate why, however please take the time to reply and even throw some thought provoking questions and curve balls as like I said I DO WANT TO DO IT RIGHT!

 

[Musho3210]

no your not an idiot, and i doubt anyone here will say you are one since you are here to learn and you are ready to take advice. Idiots are people who come here and ask questions but doesnt take the advice.

Anyway, that said, look around at our stickies to learn more about saltwater tanks. The first question we must ask you use, what are you planning on? Do you plan on a FO tank (fish only, normally fish only tanks are for predators but it is not uncommon to see reef safe fish in a FO tank) FOWLR (fish only with live rock, this is more of the natural way without getting into corals just yet, its basically the same as a FO tank, but with live rock, im sure you will read about live rock somewhere on one of the stickies) and lastly, their is a reef tank, a reef tank is a FOWLR + Corals. Depending on corals and stuff, a reef tank can be very demanding, or very easy. Just read up some stickes and answer which one you would like.

 

[SkiFletch]

to the marine section, hope you like your stay

Musho offers some great advice here, I agree with him completely. If I may suggest in addition to reading the stickies and deciding what type of tank you want to browse through some large online retailers like liveaquaria.com and saltwaterfish.com to get an idea of what kinds of livestock are out there. See what strikes your fancy, what fish you like, if you really want corals, etc. Livestock decisions largely affect how the tank is setup, maintenance, etc. Anything is possible but be prepared for us to tell you that it may be difficult . Good news is that a tank that big is quite forgiving for a newbie (small mistakes don't affect water quality as quickly) so good choice there

Keep the reading and questions coming

 

[Se7enUK]

Looking through I think I would be looking at FOWLR. I presume living in the UK the sea here is not worth trying to collect live rock, sand or even using seawater direct from the beach as a base??
It seems from the info I am reading it is better to have a seperate skimmer?

Also one thought that has been triggered is how the hell do you deal with a powercut?? I can imagine investing all this time getting everything ready and then eventually when you have your fish a powercut wiping all the hard work out?

 

[jeasko]

First off hi and

One thing that will cause you problems if you removed rock/sand from the sea(besides I dont think your allowed to remove rock etc form the beach/sea in the UK) is the water temp in the uk is considerably lower than you would be looking to keep your tank at, which means anything good or bad on the LR would stuggle to adapt and likely die off and possible cycle again, also if you removed anything from the sea over here you have no idea what nasties could be on it, where as if its bought from LFS its not likely (but does still happen) to have hitch hikers on and also it is likely to be removed legally from the sea in areas of the world where the water temp is similar to the temp we keep our tanks at thus meaning anything on it will survive.

regards to power cuts it really isnt a problem unless you face long power cuts on a regular basis, most corals and fish will cope fine for a few days in the dark and if you have LR it will be acting like filtration so if the skimmer and filter are not going the LR will be doing it for you, so again in the event of a power cut there really isnt a great problem, the biggest problem though is temp but again this will take some time to drop to any level thats going to cause you a problem so shouldnt be a problem.

 

[Musho3210]

Looking through I think I would be looking at FOWLR. I presume living in the UK the sea here is not worth trying to collect live rock, sand or even using seawater direct from the beach as a base??
It seems from the info I am reading it is better to have a seperate skimmer?

Also one thought that has been triggered is how the hell do you deal with a powercut?? I can imagine investing all this time getting everything ready and then eventually when you have your fish a powercut wiping all the hard work out?

Powercuts is a thing many newcommers fear, i remember i feared it immensly when i first started. But as time progresses and you gain more experiance, you learn about how much of a break your tank can get. Sure powercuts are scary, even when you know what your doing. But dont panic, my tank has gone more than 3 hours with no light, no surface movement, no filtration etc. If its a long power cut, there are battery operated air pumps you could hook up, and the tank will be able to survive a very long time without light, especially if you dont have corals.

Anyway, it would be better if you bought your own live rock, less of a chance of weird diseases and pollutants entering your tank if you use rock out of the atlantic/english channel/north sea or whatever. In american terms, its about 1-2 pounds of live rock per gallon, i dont know about kilos - liters but since there are more metric users here in the forum, im sure someone will say something.

Skimmer are a nifty device, but they are not needed. Water changes do a better job. HOWEVER with such a large tank as yours, 15% weekly water changes are going to be annoying and quite expensive as time progresses, so, if i were you, i would get a nice BIG skimmer to help you out, then you could do less water changes while still removing organics from the tank, skimmer or no skimmer your still going to want to do water changes, it just depends on more or less.

 

[steelhealr]

The only stupid question is the one not asked.

SH

 

[Se7enUK]

Thanks for such great detailed replies.

Thats made me feel more relaxed about the power cuts

I think the sourcing of water etc from the local sea is out and yes I did think the water temp would be a limiter. I also think there is a law prohibiting the removal of rock from the shores in the UK.

Thanks for the links to the online marine shops will spend a few days browsing and trying to put together an idea of what fish I would eventually like to get. I have also found a place not to far away that specilises in Marine so will try and visit today.

The tank is 370 ltrs which I think in US money is approx 100 US gallons, will I need to consider reinforcing the floor?

Birleys Aquatics is the place I will go and have a look at today.

A big skimmer is the way to go then.

 

[andywg]

or even using seawater direct from the beach as a base??

This is very possible. The former SW mod here, Navarre, used to collect his SW, but he lived down near St Ives. If possible, try and get some sort of professional test done on the water and make sure there isn't a heavy amount of marine traffic going past (whil living on the Thames Estuary, I somehow doubt all the boats passing leave the water too nice round here).

Also consider that the beaches are a form of natural skimmer for the sea, so you want to be collecting the water a little way out (a pier is fantastic for this) just to be a bit safer. In theory there is the risk of pathogens that the fish are not used to being present in the water, but running a UV filter should eliminate most of that risk.

It seems from the info I am reading it is better to have a seperate skimmer?

Indeed, especially as most fish only systems (with or without LR) tend to be heavier stocked than reefs. I would also potentially advise you to look at sumps to mount the skimmer in. they are a bit scary at first, but can make life a whole lot easier.

With regards to reinforcing the floor, that all depends on the type of floor.

 

[Se7enUK]

Hi Andy,

The place where I live is heavy traffic as well in the sea so I think that ones out.

The floor is 600mm spaced joists with 22mm thick chipboard flooring? My gut feeling is it should be OK but want to make sure.

Whats the benefit of having a sump? Will this setup be OK to put underneath?

 

[andywg]

A sump provides extra water capacity, and a place to hide skimmers and heaters. It gives a cleaner look in the main tank and the added water gives you an added buffer in case anything goes wrong.

The stand on that system won't allow a massive sump, but you might be able to fit a tank and skimmer in there.

The floor sounds ok for that sort of tank, but what thickness are the joists? I have 2x8 joists and have about 150imp gallons sitting over 4x2 and 5x2 floorspans and they seem good.

 

[Se7enUK]

Hi Andy,

I went to the aquatic place and asked for help and they seemed a little stand offish with regards help, there first comment was that they did not know the sort of tank I had and could not help!

It looks like I am going to have a new base unit made as the wife does not like beech! So I could design more space underneath?

I think the sump will definately go down better with the wife as well, keeping everything neat

The only thing I bought from the aquatic shop is book so far!

The live rock is more expensive than I first thought, how much will I need for a 370 ltr tank? I think I am also going to have a filter as well to be on the safe side.

 

[Musho3210]

well, if live rock is pricey, you could always use some base rock and some live rock, save some cash. Basically base rock is the same rock as live rock, but without the life, therefor much cheaper. If you mix the base rock with the live rock in the tank, albeit it may be a tiny bit ugly for a while (base rock is normally a nice white while live rock ranges in all sorts of browny colors) it will save you on a lot of cash.

Also look for a local reef club, sometimes people in local reef clubs sell live rock at unbeatable prices.

 

[andywg]

Second hand live rock saves lots of money.

Alternatively, just make your own base rock from crushed oyster shell (5 parts) and plain portland cement (1 part). Add water until it is like cottage cheese and let it set in sand for 24 hours. Then put it in water for a few weeks, changing once a week (or throw it in the toilet cistern if you don't have any smelly things in there for hassle free constant water changes) until it no longer causes pH to rise.

From there you just put it underneath your live rock and let the LR seed it. I have quite a bit of DIY stuff hidden away in sumps, as well as a low "table" which sits on 4 splodges to create a nice home for the eel in my reef.

If you make the new stand from something like 2x4 then you should be able to make it more open and without the fancy shelves, thus giving room to hide lots of things.

If you go with a sump and live rock then another filter will be a bit superfluous and just really give you another thing to clean. However, it can be a useful place to throw some chemical media (but I just put mine in tights and sling it in the sump).

 

[Se7enUK]

Hi Andy

Thats sounds good and I can mix cement

The more I am looking into the wet sump the more its stressing me out, I am going to sort a new base unit that will give me more room as I definately think I do not have enough room!!

What is your set up Andy and what fish do you have? I think I am going to be slow getting going but better to have it right....