🌟 Exclusive Amazon Black Friday Deals 2024 🌟
Don’t miss out on the best deals of the season! Shop now 🎁
Lowering Hardness
- Thread starter LyraGuppi
- Start date
It's not easy, there's a few methods. Using peat in the filter can do it. Using RO water (using a mineral mix to add the other minerals back that you will need for healthy fish) will also do it - or part RO, part tap, depending upon the hardness that you want to achieve.
Something to watch out for - if you have a problem, and want to do an emergency water change, you have to ensure you have enough RO water to do it, because if you just use tap, you'll be quickly changing the hardness back to its natural level, and this sudden swing in hardness can cause other problems.
Something to watch out for - if you have a problem, and want to do an emergency water change, you have to ensure you have enough RO water to do it, because if you just use tap, you'll be quickly changing the hardness back to its natural level, and this sudden swing in hardness can cause other problems.
Agreed with TLM.
The most cost effective option is to add RO to your existing tap water. Theoretically, you could lower your hardness in half by doing a 50/50 split. But, the danger, as TLM points out is making sure to always have sufficient RO on hand at any given time, so that an emergency water change can be done with the same ratio as you always use, so that you aren't causing more trouble by changing the water chemistry (aka hardness) to 'unsafe' levels for your stock.
The most cost effective option is to add RO to your existing tap water. Theoretically, you could lower your hardness in half by doing a 50/50 split. But, the danger, as TLM points out is making sure to always have sufficient RO on hand at any given time, so that an emergency water change can be done with the same ratio as you always use, so that you aren't causing more trouble by changing the water chemistry (aka hardness) to 'unsafe' levels for your stock.
That's not exactly accurate.
First, pH is far less important than hardness, because pH fluctuates daily. Consider a planted tank. During the 'daylight hours' we pump CO2 into the tank. The CO2 forms 'carbonic acid' which decreases the pH but the plants use it so its not much lower if at all... but during the night (assuming a constant influx of CO2) the CO2 builds up as the plants stop taking up CO2 and actually take up O2. So, the pH will fall over night. And this cycle happens over a daily basis.
Second, 'evolution' isn't a factor in terms of the fish in our tank... evolution as you are using it only allows for adaptations that are inherited from generation to generation. Our fish have the capacity to adapt to different levels of pH, but there's a limit to how much they can actually handle. (There's a thread going on currently on the subject of whether or not we should aim to have our tank water chemistry match the LFS or to match the natural conditions of our fishes' home territorial range.
Third, in nature, rainy seasons versus dry seasons cause a yearly fluctuation in the water chemistry, which includes pH among other things, but these are generally temporary changes, not for the life of the fish. These changes can actually spur on spawning in some species.
The more important thing is the gH and kH. Both of these will affect the pH, but are much more important, IMHO. This is what we are referring to in this thread. Most angels come from acidic (pH), soft (gH/kH) waters of South America. So, keeping them in basic (pH), hard (gH/kH) water long term could have a dramatic effect on their life span, life quality or both.
First, pH is far less important than hardness, because pH fluctuates daily. Consider a planted tank. During the 'daylight hours' we pump CO2 into the tank. The CO2 forms 'carbonic acid' which decreases the pH but the plants use it so its not much lower if at all... but during the night (assuming a constant influx of CO2) the CO2 builds up as the plants stop taking up CO2 and actually take up O2. So, the pH will fall over night. And this cycle happens over a daily basis.
Second, 'evolution' isn't a factor in terms of the fish in our tank... evolution as you are using it only allows for adaptations that are inherited from generation to generation. Our fish have the capacity to adapt to different levels of pH, but there's a limit to how much they can actually handle. (There's a thread going on currently on the subject of whether or not we should aim to have our tank water chemistry match the LFS or to match the natural conditions of our fishes' home territorial range.
Third, in nature, rainy seasons versus dry seasons cause a yearly fluctuation in the water chemistry, which includes pH among other things, but these are generally temporary changes, not for the life of the fish. These changes can actually spur on spawning in some species.
The more important thing is the gH and kH. Both of these will affect the pH, but are much more important, IMHO. This is what we are referring to in this thread. Most angels come from acidic (pH), soft (gH/kH) waters of South America. So, keeping them in basic (pH), hard (gH/kH) water long term could have a dramatic effect on their life span, life quality or both.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Ph and hardness (or more accurately conductivity or TDS, broader measures of what is in the water) are not the same thing. Fish can handle swings in pH much better than swings in "hardness." Similarly, they can handle conditions outside of the their normal pH range much better than out of their hardness range.
I am going to suggest you have a read here to get a better understanding of all this: http
/fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html
It is well written, easy to understand and will explain to you exactly what is involved. it should not take more than 5 or 10 minutes tops. After that come back and ask specific questions if you have any.
How hard is your water that you believe it needs to be lowered?
I am going to suggest you have a read here to get a better understanding of all this: http
/fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.htmlIt is well written, easy to understand and will explain to you exactly what is involved. it should not take more than 5 or 10 minutes tops. After that come back and ask specific questions if you have any.
How hard is your water that you believe it needs to be lowered?
OP
OP
LyraGuppi
Fish Herder
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2014
- Messages
- 1,773
- Reaction score
- 171
Okay, apparently my water isn't as hard as I thought. I sit right around medium hard, at 180 ppm.
8 - 12 dH, 140 - 210 ppm : medium hard
These are fish I plan to have in the future. According to SeriouslyFish:
It's soft for mollies (I've had very good luck with them though?)
Around perfect for angels
ONE POINT out of the ram's range (One point...does it matter?)
Bettas have a massive range! (0-357?!)
Soft for platies (Again, very good luck with them)
Right out of range for variatus platies (14-30 dh, but these guys, again, very easy on me)
I have alkaline/basic water, right at 8.0.
8 - 12 dH, 140 - 210 ppm : medium hard
These are fish I plan to have in the future. According to SeriouslyFish:
It's soft for mollies (I've had very good luck with them though?)
Around perfect for angels
ONE POINT out of the ram's range (One point...does it matter?)
Bettas have a massive range! (0-357?!)
Soft for platies (Again, very good luck with them)
Right out of range for variatus platies (14-30 dh, but these guys, again, very easy on me)
I have alkaline/basic water, right at 8.0.
First, you shouldn't have issues with angelfish in your water. A GH of 180 ppm equates to 10 dGH. Keep in mind TTA's mention of TDS though...any idea from your municipal water supply as to what the TDS (= total dissolved solids) is for your water area? The pH at 8 is high, but this shouldn't be a problem and it might lower a bit as the tank becomes established biologically. Just make sure you do nothing to increase GH or pH, such as using calcareous substrate or rock. Inert substrate (sand, fine gravel) is fine; inert means it contains no substances that will affect water chemistry. Gravels intended for marine aquaria or rift lake cichlids for example are frequently composed of crushed coral, aragonite, maybe dolomite, and these being calcareous (literally means composed of calcium carbonate) contain calcium (all of them) and magnesium (aragonite and dolomite). I've used these in the past to raise GH and pH for livebearers as I have very soft water.
To the livebearers (mollies and platy). The common platy (Xiphophorus maculatus) will probably not have trouble in your water. The GH range on SF is 10-30 dGH with a pH above neutral (above 7.0). The X. variatus I would surmise would be about the same, acknowledging the higher GH on SF, something I would have to look into before I can comment further. Mollies are a bit fussier, and actually something of a quite sensitive fish. They need minerals in the water, and if I were in your place and wanted mollies, I would use one of the calcareous substrates just to get the GH higher. But your 10 dGH and pH 8 is not on the soft side, so the mollies might well do fairly well, as they appear to have done. But I would give this beautiful fish a bit more. Perhaps you will have a livebearer aquarium? Then you can do a bit more for all of them. I would not combine livebearers with angelfish or rams though, regardless. Not only would I prefer different parameters, but the activity of livebearers can be unsettling to sedate angels and rams.
Now, rams are another thing. I assume we are talking the common or blue ram, in any one of its varieties. Mikrogeophagus ramirezi does occur in very soft and acidic water in its habitat, and very warm water. One set of data for a pool containing this species was less than 1 dGH, pH 5.1, and conductivity almost undetectable it was so low (this is the TDS aspect). Air temp was 31C (88F) at the coolest time of day, up to 44C (104F) in the shade. Wild caught fish must have these parameters.
The commercially-raised fish however seem to have adapted over the many generations and the usual advice is to try and replicate the water parameters of the breeder (not the store, but the hatchery or breeder facility). Generally, this is probably going to be relatively close to your water. But they do need warmth, 80F or above. I would not worry with commercially-raised fish in your water.
Angelfish can manage in warm water, though the commercially raised fish (which is what you will see in stores unless the local store imports from SA) do well at slightly lower and more "common" tropical temperatures (77/78F). But you should be fine at 80F with angelfish and rams. I wouldn't include livebearers, and most certainly not Betta, in with these cichlids. But then you may not have intended this anyway. There are suitable options for other fish. One of the warm-water cory species like Corydoras sterbai are often seen with angelfish and rams (provided you don't want fry, as these nocturnal corys are very likely to get the eggs during darkness). Hatchetfish work, the larger species in Thoracocharax or Gasteropelecus are best here. Some of the disk-shaped tetra like the Rosy Tetra or Roberti Tetra. All depends upon tank size of course; and on that note, angelfish are best in a group of five or more, in a 4-foot tank. A mated/bonded pair can work in smaller tanks like maybe a 40-50g. Or one alone. But never 2, 3 or 4.
Byron.
To the livebearers (mollies and platy). The common platy (Xiphophorus maculatus) will probably not have trouble in your water. The GH range on SF is 10-30 dGH with a pH above neutral (above 7.0). The X. variatus I would surmise would be about the same, acknowledging the higher GH on SF, something I would have to look into before I can comment further. Mollies are a bit fussier, and actually something of a quite sensitive fish. They need minerals in the water, and if I were in your place and wanted mollies, I would use one of the calcareous substrates just to get the GH higher. But your 10 dGH and pH 8 is not on the soft side, so the mollies might well do fairly well, as they appear to have done. But I would give this beautiful fish a bit more. Perhaps you will have a livebearer aquarium? Then you can do a bit more for all of them. I would not combine livebearers with angelfish or rams though, regardless. Not only would I prefer different parameters, but the activity of livebearers can be unsettling to sedate angels and rams.
Now, rams are another thing. I assume we are talking the common or blue ram, in any one of its varieties. Mikrogeophagus ramirezi does occur in very soft and acidic water in its habitat, and very warm water. One set of data for a pool containing this species was less than 1 dGH, pH 5.1, and conductivity almost undetectable it was so low (this is the TDS aspect). Air temp was 31C (88F) at the coolest time of day, up to 44C (104F) in the shade. Wild caught fish must have these parameters.
The commercially-raised fish however seem to have adapted over the many generations and the usual advice is to try and replicate the water parameters of the breeder (not the store, but the hatchery or breeder facility). Generally, this is probably going to be relatively close to your water. But they do need warmth, 80F or above. I would not worry with commercially-raised fish in your water.
Angelfish can manage in warm water, though the commercially raised fish (which is what you will see in stores unless the local store imports from SA) do well at slightly lower and more "common" tropical temperatures (77/78F). But you should be fine at 80F with angelfish and rams. I wouldn't include livebearers, and most certainly not Betta, in with these cichlids. But then you may not have intended this anyway. There are suitable options for other fish. One of the warm-water cory species like Corydoras sterbai are often seen with angelfish and rams (provided you don't want fry, as these nocturnal corys are very likely to get the eggs during darkness). Hatchetfish work, the larger species in Thoracocharax or Gasteropelecus are best here. Some of the disk-shaped tetra like the Rosy Tetra or Roberti Tetra. All depends upon tank size of course; and on that note, angelfish are best in a group of five or more, in a 4-foot tank. A mated/bonded pair can work in smaller tanks like maybe a 40-50g. Or one alone. But never 2, 3 or 4.
Byron.
No, as mollies need space, they are not small fish when they attain 3 inches (males) and 5-6 inches (females). These could go in with the platy if not too many, and if you add the calcareous sand/gravel they would all be quite happy together. The larger volume would also work to prevent water conditions changing, as mollies are highly sensitive to this. And they cannot tolerate ammonia above zero. B.LyraGuppi said:
I understand, but mollies are not active fish so swimming space is not an issue which is why they would suit a tall tank as much as a long. Assuming you stay with males (to avoid fry by the hundreds) I would myself be willing to combine them with platy in this tank. A couple chunks of wood reaching to the top, sand or gravel substrate--here pea gravel would work to make it an authentic habitat, some rounded river rock of varying sizes to replicate boulders and stones, Vallisneria planted in the gravel, and a few floating plants. ...Just a thought, I got swept away thinking of the lovely aquascapes one can make for Central American/Mexican livebearers.
Numbers you ask, well maybe three male mollies (black? or the variant? or both), 5-6 platy. For bottom interest, maybe a whiptail catfish, provided it is the smaller Rineloricaria species, 1, 2 or 3. Or that nice reddish/brown variety called Red Lizard. Silly name, but nice fish; I have a trio in with my regular Whiptail.
Byron.
Numbers you ask, well maybe three male mollies (black? or the variant? or both), 5-6 platy. For bottom interest, maybe a whiptail catfish, provided it is the smaller Rineloricaria species, 1, 2 or 3. Or that nice reddish/brown variety called Red Lizard. Silly name, but nice fish; I have a trio in with my regular Whiptail.
Byron.
OP
OP
LyraGuppi
Fish Herder
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2014
- Messages
- 1,773
- Reaction score
- 171
Byron said:A couple chunks of wood reaching to the top, sand or gravel substrate--here pea gravel would work to make it an authentic habitat, some rounded river rock of varying sizes to replicate boulders and stones, Vallisneria planted in the gravel, and a few floating plants. ...Just a thought, I got swept away thinking of the lovely aquascapes one can make for Central American/Mexican livebearers.
I hope to find some Vallis
Numbers you ask, well maybe three male mollies (black? or the variant? or both), 5-6 platy. For bottom interest, maybe a whiptail catfish, provided it is the smaller Rineloricaria species, 1, 2 or 3. Or that nice reddish/brown variety called Red Lizard. Silly name, but nice fish; I have a trio in with my regular Whiptail.
What would an all-molly stocking look like? And what do you mean by "variant?"
There are different colour varieties of mollies, all black, the silver/black dalmation, sailfin, etc. With just mollies, I would say 7-8, provided all male.LyraGuppi said:
A couple chunks of wood reaching to the top, sand or gravel substrate--here pea gravel would work to make it an authentic habitat, some rounded river rock of varying sizes to replicate boulders and stones, Vallisneria planted in the gravel, and a few floating plants. ...Just a thought, I got swept away thinking of the lovely aquascapes one can make for Central American/Mexican livebearers.
I hope to find some Vallis
Numbers you ask, well maybe three male mollies (black? or the variant? or both), 5-6 platy. For bottom interest, maybe a whiptail catfish, provided it is the smaller Rineloricaria species, 1, 2 or 3. Or that nice reddish/brown variety called Red Lizard. Silly name, but nice fish; I have a trio in with my regular Whiptail.
What would an all-molly stocking look like? And what do you mean by "variant?"
Valisneria grows very well in harder water; it is one plant that can use bicarbonates as a source of carbon. It even grows naturally in the African rift lakes.
Similar threads
Most reactions
-
271 -
264 -
182 -
165 -
153 -
148 -
147 -
131 -
127 -
106 -
93 -
90 -
84 -
84 -
81