Lost Pandas

[saphphx]

So, last night I did my end of the day feed, and one little panda was acting very oddly, he had his head shoved under a tube, and I thought he was stuck, so got the net, but he was off before the net even hit water, swimming like a mad man, twisting turning and so on, then settled and couldn't stay upright, so I carefully caught him in a cup, did a 50% water change, put him, his cup and sand in the breeding trap, attached it to the side at the top so he could get to the top easier if wanted, and treated the lot for swim bladder. It was a rough night, and he fought every step. I finally gave up watch and got some sleep, when I went down in the morning I tested the old water which I kept in a bucket, it was a little off (just a touch of colour in the amm and nitrate) and went to check the fish, not only had the poor little fish in the breeder died, but there was another dead panda as well! except for the one little panda the rest were fine when I went to bed. So I took them, water samples, and so on to my LFS. The owner said they looked spot on, colour and all, and was surprised as even in death they hadn't lost any colour or anything. Nothing wrong, good size for being so small, so were eating, colour was fab, no ripped fins, very good looking fish for being dead. He says if it was the water quality they all would have died. Any ideas??

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Can you give us more info on your situation;
a. Tank gallons/size
b. Stocking/inhabitants of tank
c. Exact test results for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates etc.
d. Length of time you have owned the panda and the tank has been set up.
e. Feeding regime
f. Tank cleaning regime

etc etc. Please give us as much info as posible, as until you do we can only guess at what happened. There was no need to treat for swimbladder disorder unless the cory could not control the direction in which it swam (i.e. swimming upside down, in spirals etc).

 

[NEONCORY]

Also water parameter(temp, ph and gh/kh), the filter set upbeside what Tokis-Phoenix asked. I find Pandas like highly oxtgenated cool water with current, well at least mine does. I keep mine with HOB and powerhead with sponge. I have all the info in one of my thread.
Also did your Pandas made many trip to the surface to gabble up the air last night? More often so than usual?

 

[DiscusAngel]

Pandas are the hardest corys to keep there very sensitive and in the lfs its pot luck you get some that live some that die. so its realy hard to get some to survive.

sorry for your loss.

 

[saphphx]

Can you give us more info on your situation;
a. Tank gallons/size
b. Stocking/inhabitants of tank
c. Exact test results for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates etc.
d. Length of time you have owned the panda and the tank has been set up.
e. Feeding regime
f. Tank cleaning regime

etc etc. Please give us as much info as posible, as until you do we can only guess at what happened. There was no need to treat for swimbladder disorder unless the cory could not control the direction in which it swam (i.e. swimming upside down, in spirals etc).

a. fish r fun hex (http/www.rocketaquatics.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=72_137_138&products_id=254&osCsid=9392d78c4fe4d9560f1a49cd4dc5cc83) Filter and so on that comes with it, air pump, sand, and clay pots for caves. (photo of panda town: http/10.0.0.101/~saphphx/plecncory/PandaTownLineUp.jpg)
b. had 16x 1-1.5cm pandas, 1x 1.5-2cm albino bronze
c. nitrate: 0ppm - 5.0ppm, but closer to 0 on the colour chart, Ammonia:0ppm - 0.25ppm but closer to 0 on the colour chart, nitrite: 0ppm, pH: 7.2. Tempature: 77 degrees f.
d. Bought the pandas on 15/03/07, they went into H2 (Hold 2) on the same day, treated with 1/2 dose of liquasel tonic. Carbon and 20% water change done on 17/03/07 early morning, problems started 18/03/07 at 2am, when I noticed I did a 50% change, took carbon out, and treated with 1mm swim blatter treatment as per instructions.
e. live food or frozen blood worms in the morning, live microworms or baby brine shrimp in the after noon, sinking pellets or a tubaflex cube in the evening, sometimes a little soaked flake just before bed.
f. 10% change once to twice a week AND 25% once a week on fridays, sometimes a bit more as its a little over stocked at the moment. Non-q tanks I do 1x 40% change for most per week, normally 2-3 10% changes throughout the week, depending on the tank.

The fish started with his head under a pot, when I went to get him out, he took off, swimming in tight spiral, though in a fairly straight line, he came to rest and slowly drifted upside down, waited a bit and took off again, then settled, and stayed upright for a moment, before going upside down again.

Also water parameter(temp, ph and gh/kh), the filter set upbeside what Tokis-Phoenix asked. I find Pandas like highly oxtgenated cool water with current, well at least mine does. I keep mine with HOB and powerhead with sponge. I have all the info in one of my thread.
Also did your Pandas made many trip to the surface to gabble up the air last night? More often so than usual?

I dont have test for gh/kh, though I know form keeping apple snails that there is little calcium in the watr. I keep the tank well oxygenated and the tank around 77F, though it will drop sometimes to 75F, so during the cold spell I added a heater to the tank to keep the temp a bit better (the whole fish room is heated to 78, keeping the tanks around 77, except when its stupidly cold, like it is at the moment, when I have to plug everyone's smaller heaters back in)

Only one or two have gone to the top, then back down, in normal cory fashion. None seem to be gobbling for air and so on. They have a bit of a current from the filter.

In the bigger tank (3 foot) I have sand, a fluval 4 and an intrapet 2 for flow on the bottom and top of the tank. The pandas are in a holding tank for a week to be sure they're not ill, then will be joining the other pandas in the large tank.

Pandas are the hardest corys to keep there very sensitive and in the lfs its pot luck you get some that live some that die. so its realy hard to get some to survive.

sorry for your loss.

The last lot I lost had been half eaten by barbs at the LFS while I was waiting to collect them These all looked really good, and still look really good, except two are dead...

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Your links aren't working, but as far as i am aware the fish r fun hex tanks are only 5.7gals, which for 16 panda corys is far too small- i would only put a maximum of 4 panda's in such a small tank and only when it is properly established (6months after been set up, no water quality issues). The sign of ammonia also indicates the tank mini-cyled (and is still doing so), either when you put the new ones in, or simply because it is overstocked either way. You need to get an accurate test kit which is more exact in its results, ammonia and nitrites should always be kept to 0 and nitrates preferably under 40.
Panda corys are very delicate fish and can't handle ammonia or nitrites well at all, and with the stress of an overstocked tank, the odds of your panda corys surviving was not very large. I wouldn't advise you keep panda corys unless you reduce their group to a much smaller one and make sure the substrate is a sand one, the tank is too small for bronze corys (they grow to 2-3inches long, need a 10gal long tank absolute minimum).

 

[saphphx]

Your links aren't working, but as far as i am aware the fish r fun hex tanks are only 5.7gals, which for 16 panda corys is far too small- i would only put a maximum of 4 panda's in such a small tank and only when it is properly established (6months after been set up, no water quality issues). The sign of ammonia also indicates the tank mini-cyled (and is still doing so), either when you put the new ones in, or simply because it is overstocked either way. You need to get an accurate test kit which is more exact in its results, ammonia and nitrites should always be kept to 0 and nitrates preferably under 40.
Panda corys are very delicate fish and can't handle ammonia or nitrites well at all, and with the stress of an overstocked tank, the odds of your panda corys surviving was not very large. I wouldn't advise you keep panda corys unless you reduce their group to a much smaller one and make sure the substrate is a sand one, the tank is too small for bronze corys (they grow to 2-3inches long, need a 10gal long tank absolute minimum).

I know, its a q tank. I refuse to toss new fish into the big tank strait from the bag. Like I said, there is a 3 foot for them, and the bronze are in a 4 foot.

I have the aquarium pharmaceuticals inc freshwater master test kit - same as all the fish shops around here use. Is there a better one? we use to use the test strips that you dip in the tank or a cup of water or whatever, is there a better one? The q tank has been set up for almost a year now, and has always had fish in it, I keep small guppies in it to keep it cycled between batches of quarantine fish. I would like to keep them in bigger hold tanks, but I don't have any spare, as I have big fish in the big holding tanks, so have to put the small ones in the small tanks.

Even my smallest group of corys is in a 2 foot tank. I like having more space then needed for all of my fish. All cory tanks are fine sand as well.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Hmm even with quarentine tanks is best to avoid overstocking them- in the future, you should buy smaller groups of corys for quarentining as so not to upset the biological filtration of the tank- even in an established tank, if you add too many fish at once it will mini-cycle. I agree though that it is best to quarentine fish in general when you can, but also remember that a quarentine tank is just like any other and you should avoid overstocking or adding too many fish at once at any time to help avoid mini-cycles .

 

[saphphx]

Hmm even with quarentine tanks is best to avoid overstocking them- in the future, you should buy smaller groups of corys for quarentining as so not to upset the biological filtration of the tank- even in an established tank, if you add too many fish at once it will mini-cycle. I agree though that it is best to quarentine fish in general when you can, but also remember that a quarentine tank is just like any other and you should avoid overstocking or adding too many fish at once at any time to help avoid mini-cycles .

yeah.. that is my fault.... there were 16 when I ordered 6, they owed me 4, and I couldn't leave them after the last lot, and when I was in today, they had found 4 more that had been hiding, so I have them on hold and checked their tank mates. Will be collecting them and some more that I am owed and ordered, but will have all 3 q tanks clear by then -sigh o relief- but one of the employees there worries me, and I saw her name on the list to work, so I tend to collect what I can as they are never there when I get back for some reason or another.

Think I should risk miffing them and split the group into smaller ones? I can move the fish in the other FishrFun, they're done with treatment, though I have been slowly changing the water out to get rid of it. think they would be ok being taken straight out? there the last lot of pandas, have been treated with myth blue, so far I have done 4 50% water changes and the water is still tinted blue lol. Would they be ok if I took them out and put them right into the big tank, or should I keep slowly trying to get the myth blue out? No idea how they are with medications, as none of my other pandas have ever had problems or been treated, and have no idea if there is any actual medication left or just the colour as I put the carbon filter back in a while ago.

Thanks! I promise to stop freaking out in a few weeks Out of 400 fish I have never had this many issues or freak outs..

 

[saphphx]

I lost another one today.. going to try moving them to a new tank tomorrow, changed nearly all their water tonight and gave them tonic. Water tests before the change were still spot on, so I have no idea what's going on. Off to the fish shop in the morning. I think from now on anything smaller then my finger tips will be staying at the shop, special ordered or not.

 

[connorsbala]

My 3 died like yours,randomly. But along with 2/3 of the clown loaches that died, 1 of the pandas and the 2 clown died with like dots of blood on their bodied. But on the panda it was actualy dripping down its spine...v.strange any ideas what happened with the blood? Could they ahve been nipped or something?

 

[saphphx]

My 3 died like yours,randomly. But along with 2/3 of the clown loaches that died, 1 of the pandas and the 2 clown died with like dots of blood on their bodied. But on the panda it was actualy dripping down its spine...v.strange any ideas what happened with the blood? Could they ahve been nipped or something?

Well....:

what do you keep them with?
what is the tank size?
pH?
Amm?
Nitrate?
Nitrite?
How many fish?
How long have you had them?
Did you quar them first?

Helps figure out whats going on