Livebearer fry appeared from nowhere...

AdoraBelle Dearheart

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Fed the fish last night, and spotted some fry at the top of the tank! They look like guppy fry. Maybe platy, but likely guppy. Problem is, there really shouldn't be any in there, and I don't know who had them..!


I've been gradually winding down livebearer breeding for months now, wanting to move on and keep different fish, and having grown tired of the constant rounds of bagging young fish and taking them to the store. I also soon need to tear down and move the 57g tank most of them were in, so that was an incentive.

Recently, the LFS that's close to me closed down. I really really don't want to have to be selling the offspring 2-3 at a time via Gumtree or something, so that forced my hand. In the days before they closed, they agreed to take my females and young, including 100 odd fry, to sell. I bagged everything, determined that there won't be anymore fry to deal with!

Livebearers I've kept are;
Some guppy males in a different tank
Two MALE blue platies (and they're definitely male)
A pair of black mollies. The only ones I wanted to keep breeding, but low key/in a community. So that some fry will make it, but not an overwhelming amount. So surely she's the mom, right? Nope, because right now, she's in a different tank, cleaning up some suspected planaria. So she definitely can't be the source.
I also found two fry (a blur platy and a guppy) that had evaded my net, but they're still way to small even to sex them, let alone for them to breed.

I did keep three female guppies. But I kept them because they're deformed, and they've been separated from males since they were pretty young, with no signs of ever looking gravid.

One is shaped like a V. I don't think she could successfully give birth even if she tried.
Another was born with a prolapse and remains very skinny, I don't think she could successfully give birth either.
The one I worried about has swim bladder problems. She's generally fine unless she gets in high flow, or is netted, and she sleeps at an odd angle. She could possibly give birth, if she were around males, which she isn't. And she's never looked remotely gravid.

So who has been popping out fry?? GGAAHAHAHHH I thought I was done! :rolleyes::shout:
 
Indeed, female guppies can store male sperm for quite some time, according to seriouslyfish, 6 months or more! :blink:

Even though you may not have any males in the tank, female guppies can still appear to miraculously impregnate themselves!


“Excess viable sperm can be preserved in the female’s oviduct for a long time.

This means that the females are still able to produce young for 6 months or more if no males are present.”


Quoted from seriouslyfish (under reproduction) -


Seems it’s true what they say about guppy breeding, ‘just add water!’ :lol:
 
I don’t know about guppies but ive read Endler females can still be giving birth almost a year after being in a tank with their last adult male.
I only know this becos Mrs Lurch decided her Endler males needed girlfriends so bought four. I lent her my QT tank to make sure they were ok. Two days later fry appeared. It’s about three months now and there’s still fry appearing. The females haven’t even been in with their prospective boyfriends yet.
Never will I suspect as MrsLurch has now bought a new tank for females and fry only. Once new fry stop for a month or so one of her two male endlers is gonna have the best weekend holiday of his life. Then it’ll all start again….but at least I’ll have my QT tank back.
At this rate our local branch of a well known LfS chain will be able to cancel their Endler order from the dealers.
 
Perhaps they popped out a while back and have been successfully hiding?

Nah, these are newborns, no more than a day old when I spotted them. I thought I'd taken the last viable adult female to the store weeks ago!
It's a miracle!

It's a curse!! :lol:
The livebearer curse. You can't quit breeding once you've started no matter what you do!

Now I have to raise and find homes for yet another batch of fry.. urgh. I wanted to be done! I also have to figure out which female is popping them out and what I'm going to do. I cannot cull, won't cull, it's my mistake if I didn't separate them in time. But urgh, not thrilled about having another female that will be having fry for months.
I wonder if one of three guppy rejects were pregnant from before the males were removed? I read that after they mate they store several batches of sperm to fertilise later batches of babies.

Yeeeaaahh, this is what I suspect too... darn it! I didn't want to breed from any that were deformed for obvious reasons, but also didn't want to send any deformed fish to the store, so planned to let them live out their lives with me. It's entirely possible (probable) that I didn't remove some young male in time to prevent them being knocked up. And yes, they can store sperm for months, even a year or more I've heard.

Two of the males that I've kept (in a different tank) were from the same batch as the female with the swim bladder issue, only their swim bladder balance is worse than hers. I don't know what happened to that poor batch, first time it happened since I started breeding.

The weird part is that I do look at them often, I always check out my fish when feeding, looking for any health issues, and just generally enjoying them. None of them have ever looked gravid! But one of them must have been...
At this rate our local branch of a well known LfS chain will be able to cancel their Endler order from the dealers.

I was nicknamed "The Guppy Girl" at the LFS that just closed down, because I was always bringing them 3-4 bags full of livebearer youngsters! :lol:
Never will I suspect as MrsLurch has now bought a new tank for females and fry only. Once new fry stop for a month or so one of her two male endlers is gonna have the best weekend holiday of his life. Then it’ll all start again….but at least I’ll have my QT tank back.
You might as well buy a new QT tank! It's gone... lol!

I had my tank as female and fry only too for the longest time. The problem is, you're raising those fry with the females, and some of those fry will be males. So it's a matter of getting the males out of there before they knock everyone up again, and that's tricky to do. Means you have to be constantly on top of it, and be sure that you've got them all! You also really don't want to accidentally mistake a female for a male and put her in the male only tank, since she would be in for a bad time...
 
It's illegal for us in the uk... but I do wonder how many people who claim to breed guppies "for fun" do it to feed a tank of carnivorous fish. I once got some pet rats from a public aquarium that kept and showed reptiles on the upper floor. The staff patiently explained they only breed rodents and rabbits for fun because to feed them to the snakes would be illegal...

Not that I suspect you of that ofc... otherwise those deformed females would never have been a problem for you in the first place.
 
It's illegal for us in the uk... but I do wonder how many people who claim to breed guppies "for fun" do it to feed a tank of carnivorous fish. I once got some pet rats from a public aquarium that kept and showed reptiles on the upper floor. The staff patiently explained they only breed rodents and rabbits for fun because to feed them to the snakes would be illegal...

Not that I suspect you of that ofc... otherwise those deformed females would never have been a problem for you in the first place.

I'm sure some people do...

To be honest, if someone else only culled their deformed fish while they were fry by feeding them to a carnivorous fish, I probably wouldn't have too much issue with it. Angelfish breeders in particular have a hard time, at least with guppies, I can have a male/female tank, and not many I bred had problems. Keeping the deformed ones in a way that they can never breed is tricky - as I've experienced! And I think it's worse to allow them to be bred from, which means passing along poor genes and weakening the gene pool of the fish species overall.

But personally, no! Never fed a fish to another fish. :) I only have peaceful species and mostly nano, so the highest risk to my fry was the parents and other adults in the tanks. But there's so much plant matter in there, with such well fed and lazy adults - they were never at much risk! ;)

I just wanted a little guppy and shrimp tank when I set up my first tank, and I thought only a few babies would make it, needing to be bagged and taken to the store every few months, no big deal. But you know how guppies do! So I got another tank, and another, and another.. lol!

I really enjoyed breeding them for a while, but since I don't have a close LFS now that can take the fry and sell them to the public for me - I really need to stop breeding them! But I won't let anything happen to the deformed ones, they can live out their lives with me :)
 
It's illegal for us in the uk... but I do wonder how many people who claim to breed guppies "for fun" do it to feed a tank of carnivorous fish. I once got some pet rats from a public aquarium that kept and showed reptiles on the upper floor. The staff patiently explained they only breed rodents and rabbits for fun because to feed them to the snakes would be illegal...

Not that I suspect you of that ofc... otherwise those deformed females would never have been a problem for you in the first place.
What law is that?
 
What law is that?

I can't remember which law, but it is illegal for stores here to sell feeder fish. I asked my store about it when I first started breeding guppies, because I was worried people might buy my babies as feeders.

Not sure if/how it applies to private citizens breeding fish to feed their own fish.
 
I wasn't aware of a specific law, I would be interested to see it, I thought it just came under the generalized 'cruelty to animals'.
 
I wasn't aware of a specific law, I would be interested to see it, I thought it just came under the generalized 'cruelty to animals'.

It probably is under the Animal Welfare Act, but not entirely sure! I don't want to trawl looking for it now, and I'm going off what my LFS owner told me, so don't quote me on it or anything :)

@Essjay is pretty knowledgeable about UK laws around fishkeeping, wonder if she knows more?
 
I'll have to look for it ...........



The Animal Welfare Act 2006.

Definition of animal - a vertebrate other than man [fish are vertebrates]
It doesn't mention feeder fish specifically. But it could be argued that it falls into this category
Unnecessary suffering

(1)A person commits an offence if—

(a)an act of his, or a failure of his to act, causes an animal to suffer,

(b)he knew, or ought reasonably to have known, that the act, or failure to act, would have that effect or be likely to do so,

(c)the animal is a protected animal, and

(d)the suffering is unnecessary.
Though how would anyone prove in a court of law that feeder fish suffer.


The magazine Practical Fish Keeping contacted Defra for clarification
 
Maybe there’s a female good at hiding? They’ll do the army crawl and stay low in a crack if they wanted to avoid you lol. Maybe try check again in case.

Mine already went to lfs…can’t stand them lol. I actually dispise endlers and guppies a bit. They are dumb and annoying. Constantly booty bumping going on lol. Plus, I’m not sure what to think about fish so dumb that they can eat flakes as newborns with their parents 😟 lol. But then one day I came across some really beautiful blue grass guppies so I picked up 9 boys only. $3 a piece..ikr…like neon tetra’s price lol Very pretty. He was trying to go up in price when I came back. He was sold out by end of day and wish he had jacked the price up but no females.

It was when I got 2 delta females to get try and get more boys that it got annoying after a while. She won’t have my boys babies and keeps spitting out some weirdo halloween color. I suppose that’s good for ponds since the red and orange is complimentary color to most green plants lol.

The lfs only had males so that’s why I tried to get some deltas to see if I can get that skirt and color. Well he’s happy cuz I give back to community right lol so now he can sell them for more than $3 🤣🤣🤣
 
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One or more females must have had some stored sperm packets that have been used. As simple as that...
Most ovoviviparous livebearer females can store sperm packets in the folds of the fallopian tube for over a year. That goes for guppies as well. 3 Till 6 months max of sperm storage in females ain't correct what a number of sites claim to be. Most of such sites have just copied texts from a commercial book. And that have been copied the whole time. And the result is an incorrect information on the net.
 

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