List Of Tankbusting Fish Which Grow To 12inches Or More?

[Tokis-Phoenix]

...So i have my heart set on creating a gigantic aquarium at some point in the future- its now on my list of "10 things to do before i die". I have the money to do it right now, but not the space. The space issue could be sorted out numerous ways, which i'm looking into.
I've talked to my fiance about building a giant aquarium, and i was shocked that he's actually comfortable with the idea of it (although he sounds like he still needs some convincing), however, he doesn't want me to do such a project for at least a couple of years, as we are still finishing work on the house and still have plenty of other things to do, plus i think he wants to take a break after the current work on the house is finished to just sit back and enjoy things for a while and take it easy etc.
But i really have my heart set on this giant aquarium idea, if i could do it sooner, i would, but i will have to see how long my current projects will take to do. Seeing articles like this just makes me want to do such a crazy thing even more;

http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/...?article_id=586

I realise these things are far best planned far in advance, and i want to get a good idea early on on what i could be letting myself in for if i did decide to do such a project as building a giant aquarium in the future...If i did do such a thing, it would definately be a community tank filled with large fish- large catfish would definately be on the list. The problem is, is that i cannot find much reliable or convincing info on fish which reach a large size and the care and maintanence for them, especially when it comes to fish stocking suggestions. With the tank set up itself, i would use a koi pond heater and filter to filter/heat the tank, would definately have a sand substrate in the tank, relatively sparsely decorated with rocks/boulders, wood and plants (if i could get away with them). Water changes would probably be performed by some sort of drainage system.

If i had a very large tank, i would definately want to have red tailed catfish and giraffe catfish, so this is where i will start my fish stocking ideas with. I'm not sure if this thread is best done here, or in the catfish section, chit chat or other sections etc. I would like to have serious informed replys on this as i want to learn as much as posible on tank busting fish in general, their care/maintanence, minimum tank size and what pther fish are suitable to be stocked with them etc.
I really appreiciate any advice/info on this project idea and "tankbusting" fish in general . One of my first questions is can red tailed catfish and giraffe catfish be kept in groups or is it best to keep them as individuals? What would be the best diet for them as they grow from juveniles to adults, and what (in your opinion) is the advised recommended minimum ammount of gallons/tank size for these fish?

 

[CFC]

In answer to your first question yes both giraffe catfish and redtailed catfish are sociable and can be kept in groups, but in the case of the RTC is the tank really going to be large enough to house more than one fish which could grow to 5 feet in length and at least 4 feet? My personal feeling is that RTC should not actually be kept in aquariums at all and are really only suited to the largest zoo "pool" type exhibits with volumes in the multiples of tens of thousands of gallons.

Keeping tank busters is the same as keeping smaller fish but everything has to be done on a larger scale, a 3 foot long fish can produce solid waste similar in size to that of a small dog or cat so a filter that can handle large solids and has a massive ammount of media surface area for bacteria colonies is essential. Predatory fish require more filtration than other fish too due to their high protein diet (and therefore waste) so if the fish in question are large predators then the filtration needs to be doubled again.

For tank size this little guide i wrote a while ago should help http/www.fishforums.net/Tank-Sizes-For-T...rs-t116410.html, work out the average adult size of the largest fish you would like to own and then have the tank built to size, a 4 foot long fish requires something in the region of 16x6x6 feet though for migratory fish like RTC a little more length would deffinately be a bonus.

Feeding large fish is in most cases fairly simple, they dont get to be large by being fussy. For predatory fish handfulls of prawns, white bait, mussels and cockles are usually mopped up greedily, for really large fish then foods like whole trout might be needed to sate their hunger.

 

[OohFeeshy]

Indeed- when you're talking adult RTC, tankmates need to be huge. Forget 12" or more- that's dinner- try 2/3'+. Giraffe cats, on the other hand, are much smaller. 3ft is a bit of an overkill, max size is usually more like 2ft. Luckilly they're peaceful so tankmates aren't too much hassle. In a tank the size you're after, and for a peaceful tank, fish would be more along the lines of tinfoil barbs, pacu, giant gourami, large peaceful cichlids and so on. While with those fish it wouldn't be the most unusual of setups, what would be unusual is the fact that the fish will actually be in a tank big enough. It shouldn't be that hard to stock- large tankbusters are always available.

 

[andywg]

I agree on tank mates for RTC. You are more looking at bulk than length. Silver aros can get to 30" plus, but I wouldn't want to keep one with an RTC.

CFC has covered the main problems with RTC, that of them being large and fairly mobile. While TSN can get close to them in sizes, the TSN are far less active. Swallows in Rayleigh have an RTC that is around the 24-30" mark, and it is contantly swimming around its tank (which is too tall and not long enough).

If you want to go giant in the tank department (like the MFK 50,000 galon tank) then Pirarcu are always a choice (Arapaima gigas) though they almost never show up in the UK due to being protected.

Black pacu make nice shoaling fish for an RTC tank. I don't know what RTC are like for eating rays. I know that TSN will eat rays by starting at the tail and folding them like a kebab, but there are some very large freshwater rays (with discs up to 90cm and more) but finding them could be costly.

If you want an impressive, but slightly smaller, pond, consider the redline snakehead (Channa micropeltes). It's a one fish per tank specimin, but lovely looking, and has great dentition.


Of course if you really wanted a great looking large pond style tank, you could go salty.

A couple of catsharks, some SW rays and a few larger fish up the top; such as volitans lionfish, Harlequin Sweetslip, maybe some goatfish or porcupinefish. Would look stunning.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

What about the activity levels of a fish though? I think the calculation that you use is very useful and true in a lot of cases, but the activity levels of a fish are also important when deciding the gallons or dimensions of a tank a fish needs. I have read that RTC are only active when hungry (when they are hungry they display "prowling" behavior, looking for food), and when they are not hungry they are not really active at all.
The average length for RTC quoted on the planetcatfish site is about 4ft long;

http/www.planetcatfish.com/cotm/cotm.php?article_id=77

So for 4ft long fish a 16x6x6ft tank would be;

Dimensions 488 x 183 x 183cm/192" x 72" x 72
Surface area 8.93 sqm/96.12 sq ft/ inches sq in
Volume 16290 l./3588 gal. (4303.36 US gal.)
Probable volume 14661 l./3229 gal. (3873 US gal.)


Would a wider tank be able to allow a shorter tank at all?

For 3ft long growing fish according to the calculation you would need a 12x4x4 or 12x5x5 yes?

Dimensions 366 x 152 x 152cm/144" x 60" x 60
Surface area 5.56 sqm/59.85 sq ft/ inches sq in
Volume 8485 l./1869 gal. (2241.5 US gal.)
Probable volume 7636 l./1682 gal. (2017 US gal.)

Dimensions 366 x 122 x 122cm/144" x 48" x 48
Surface area 4.47 sqm/48.12 sq ft/ inches sq in
Volume 5430 l./1196 gal. (1434.45 US gal.)
Probable volume 4887 l./1076 gal. (1291 US gal.)

And for 2ft long growing fish you would need a 8x4x4 or a 8x3x3 tank yes?

Dimensions 244 x 122 x 122cm/96" x 48" x 48
Surface area 2.98 sqm/32.08 sq ft/ inches sq in
Volume 3618 l./797 gal. (955.77 US gal.)
Probable volume 3256 l./717 gal. (860 US gal.)

Dimensions 244 x 91 x 91cm/96" x 36" x 36
Surface area 2.22 sqm/23.9 sq ft/ inches sq in
Volume 2034 l./448 gal. (537.33 US gal.)
Probable volume 1831 l./403 gal. (484 US gal.)


Does this sound about right (sorry i am not very good at maths)?


With the filtration, i was thinking about using koi pond filters as i have a koi pond filter for my 3200gal pond- the filter is about 6x2x2ft and has lots of big heavy duty sponges in it and can filter up to 4000 UK gallons. Koi are heavy waste producers and can grow up to 3ft long, so i was thinking using such a large koi pond filter would be good for large growing tropical fish?
I would definately heat the tank if i could, but i would aim to seriously cut down on heating bills by keeping the room the tank is in at a good room temp (24-26 degree's) via normal heating instead so the tank would rarely have to use its own heater.

I think it would be really nice to adopt loads of unwanted tank busting fish, it would be nice if i could keep the tank to 12ft long and have an RTC in it (knowing me, a longer tank would be awesome, but i don't think i could convince my fiance to opt for a longer tank), but if this is not advisable then i guess i won't. I'm suprised with that the guys tank in the pfk article, some of his fish could outgrow it- at first glance, it really looks adequate for such fish.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

CFC has covered the main problems with RTC, that of them being large and fairly mobile. While TSN can get close to them in sizes, the TSN are far less active. Swallows in Rayleigh have an RTC that is around the 24-30" mark, and it is contantly swimming around its tank (which is too tall and not long enough).

Whats a TSN?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

tiger shovel nose i think

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

tiger shovel nose i think

Oh i like tiger shovel nose fish a lot, really beautiful catfish, would like to have some of them if i did a massive aquarium project.

http/www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/speci...?species_id=328


Are they safe to keep together or are they territorial/agressive towards one another at all?

 

[kribensis12]

What about a Northern Pike?

 

[CFC]

TSN will happily cohabit with other TSN and other tankmates that are too large to swallow, the thing to remember with most predatory fish is that they may eat other fish but they are not actually aggressive, food is food but what isn't food is ignored, unfortunately in the case of large catfish anything less than 2 thirds of the fishes total length is viable prey and even then that might not be enough to avoid being eaten, many a large arowana has been last seen by its owner slipping down the throat of a catfish they were sure wasn't big enough to eat it. The exceptions to the rule are snakeheads and most of the toothy Characins which rip their prey into bite sized chunks and so can eat practically any sized fish.

The comment about RTC only being active when they are hungry is true, but the problem is they are always hungry apart from for around 24 hours after being fed while they sit about to digest their meal, for the sake of water quality and filtration extra-large super predators like RTC and TSN should only be fed once a week once they are over 2 feet in length.

If you want to get an idea of how large a tank needs to be to house a group of 4 foot plus catfish then i highly recommend a visit to The Aquatic Experience @ Syon Park in Isleworth, they have what is believed to be the largest RTC in captivity which is over 5 feet in length and around the same body mass as a large Rottweiler as well as a few slightly smaller specimens and a huge school of black pacu plus loads of other fish, reptiles and other exotics.

Pond filters are good but most need to be positioned above the tank in order to work correctly so aesthetics are compromised by having a whopping great box or two above the tank, but if you dont mind that then pond filters can save you a lot of money.

Personally i wouldnt keep a stiff bodied fish of over around 3 feet in a 12 foot long tank, with flexible bodied fish like arowanas, lung fish and eels you can bend the rules a bit but bulky fish like large catfishes need as much room as they can get.

 

[T1KARMANN]

i would plan and build the biggest tank you can 1st then think about stocking it

their is no point in looking at smaller tanks 1st then upgrading for the RTC as it grows as RTC and TSN grow very fast and you will need the big adult size tank withing 2-3 years

if you want to grow a RTC or TSN up a bit when you are making this massive tank put them in a 6x2x2ft tank then that will give you 10-12 months to get the big tank sorted and running

 

[CAC]

If that were my tank, I would love a TSN or an RTC, but I think you should forget them personally, because it limits you so much. These are two of the (I think Im correct in saying this) worlds 4 largest growing FW fish (think there are only those Arapaima gigas and yellari, if youve heard of them that get bigger than these two...) and both species have huge mouths and so could consume most FW fish easily. I would go for middle size growing FW fish, like juruense catfish (I assume you know of them, if not then the scientific name is brachyplatystoma juruense) which get to arround 20-24", you could also try trigs, but theyre much more expensive and quite fradgile. So you could have one of those, and the some other nice cats, theres loads to choose from, just have a look. Anything thats about 14" or more should be ok with the juruense, theres other cats like sailfin pims, pesudodoras nigers and those and then get some things like rays, (loads to choose from there too, check my guide if needs be) a knife-fish or a couple of larger ells, like tyres or fires. Then get a shoal (maybe one shoal of each, I dont know???) of peacock bass, pacus or some tigerfish...The for the surrface a couple of south american aros, a couple of gars or a load of needlefish or what-not...Depending on what you had you could probably have a load of other mid dwelling fish that live singularly. Thats what id do with a 12 footer anyway, lots of rays, lots of cats, lots of P bass and a couple of aros Supurb...And I look forward to pics

 

[DiscusAngel]

Why not get a Lima shovelnose? there smaller than tsn and rtc, also i dont think there as bad as he tsn and things like rays can be kept with them.

 

[andywg]

Why not get a Lima shovelnose? there smaller than tsn and rtc, also i dont think there as bad as he tsn and things like rays can be kept with them.

Indeed, but limas only get to around the foot mark. Why waste time putting a fish that can be kept in a 6x2x2 in a 12 foot tank?

I would like to reiterate my support for making it salty preds. Loads of people are doing large tanks for rays and catfish, almost no one is doing large stuff for SW. Would be great to get 3 or 4 shark eggs and grow them from egg to maturity.

 

[CAC]

Why not get a Lima shovelnose? there smaller than tsn and rtc, also i dont think there as bad as he tsn and things like rays can be kept with them.

Indeed, but limas only get to around the foot mark. Why waste time putting a fish that can be kept in a 6x2x2 in a 12 foot tank?

I would like to reiterate my support for making it salty preds. Loads of people are doing large tanks for rays and catfish, almost no one is doing large stuff for SW. Would be great to get 3 or 4 shark eggs and grow them from egg to maturity.

I aggree with the statement with the limas, theyre too small really...The aros could have em if they got to about 30" and so would gars and p bass...Bit too small really. Sturgeon cats are another idea, they get to about 16" and you could add them for abit more veriety, allthough theyre quite hard to come by.
The problem with saltwater tanks is the money that would have to put into the tank, just cos of all the live rock (or is there an easier, cheaper way to do that?). I have to say though, if you have the money to build up a large wall of liverock with a load of SW morays and the like, with an open floorspace for rays and sharks then that would probably be the most impressive option, and would look extreamly cool. Allthough in my eyes the extra money cant be justified when with that money you could get some nicer rays/cats etc...