Liquid fertilizer and dirt substrate

[martincregg]

Should I be adding liquid fertilizer to this tank? This is my first "experiment" with using organic potting soil capped with pool filter sand (both about 1" depth). It's been going almost three weeks and is starting to look quite nice. I am doing 50% - 70% water changes every 4 days or so. I have had no algae explosion. The only plant that seems to be struggling is S. Repens. Frankly, I haven't been able to stop S. Repens from melting in any of my 4 other tanks (one of which has CO2). If I provide fertilizer would help the S. Repens? Any other tips with this kind of setup are gratefully received. Ultimately, if all goes well, I will be doing the same kind of thing in a 20 gallon tank next.

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

Organic potting soil provides few nutrients. The two primary ones are ammonia/ammonium and carbon. Monitor for ammonia just in case, there can be so much initially that the plants cannot use it and the fish can be affected. After about a year the soil is completely exhausted.

The other thing is that aquatic plants take up some nutrients via the leaves, not the roots. A liquid comprehensive supplement may be required; based upon your plants, especially the faster-growing stem plants, this is probably going to be needed.

Everyone here knows I am not a fan of soil substrates. They have problems for substrate fish, even with a cap of sand; eventually the sand and soil will likely mix esp with digging fish, and that is problematic for substrate fish. Any fish that naturally digs into the substrate are obviously disadvantaged.

 

[martincregg]

Thanks for the note, @Byron . If I understand you correctly, you’re saying it would be good to dose liquid fertilizer. I have Aquarium Coop Easy Green. Do you think that would suffice?

 

[Byron]

Thanks for the note, @Byron . If I understand you correctly, you’re saying it would be good to dose liquid fertilizer. I have Aquarium Coop Easy Green. Do you think that would suffice?

It probably will be necessary, given the number and type of plants. I have never used Aquarium Co-op, and from its ingredients I would think Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement is better, I have used this for over 12 years. It has less nitrogen and pho0sphorus which should never be added to an aquarium with fish unless it is a high-tech planted tank, and there are other ingredients included.

Seachem - Flourish

www.seachem.com

 

[jaylach]

It probably will be necessary, given the number and type of plants. I have never used Aquarium Co-op, and from its ingredients I would think Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement is better, I have used this for over 12 years. It has less nitrogen and pho0sphorus which should never be added to an aquarium with fish unless it is a high-tech planted tank, and there are other ingredients included.

Seachem - Flourish

www.seachem.com

I also use Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement in a heavily planted tank. While I have not been using it for a long time I would recommend starting with 1/2 the recommended dosage as the stuff is potent. Next week I should receive a couple of small driftwood pieces. When I place them I will also be cleaning the tank glass of algae. It seems to me that you have to experiment to find a balance between the plants and nutrients. Too little nutrient and the plants don't do well. Too much nutrient and you have excessive algae.

You MAY also want to look at root tabs which are buried in the substrate. These help feed roots.

If anyone gives advice that goes against mine take their advice as I'm pretty new to a fully planted tank.

 

[Stan510]

This what ive found after 50 years of plant keeping..iron is all you need. If you feed your fish? That and poop provide all the rest- more than enough in fact most of the time. Try just iron. Watch plants thrive.

 

[jaylach]

This what ive found after 50 years of plant keeping..iron is all you need. If you feed your fish? That and poop provide all the rest- more than enough in fact most of the time. Try just iron. Watch plants thrive.

Would you recommend the following as an iron supplement? If not could you make a recommendation? I DO want an iron supplement, especially for my Tiger Lotus.

 

[Byron]

Iron should not be dosed as a solitary nutrient. There are 17 nutrients required, and chances are that more than just iron will be deficient. I used this product some years ago along with Flourish Comprehensive Supplement (which also has iron), and killed the floating plants and partially melted the floating leaves of red tiger lotus. I created an iron excess, and this will cause plants to shut down uptake of certain other nutrients. I stopped using iron for a couple months, then restarted the additional dose to see, and sure enough same problem.

Iron is a micronutrient and not much is needed. Light is the critical key when it comes to red leaf plants; red (along with blue) is the driver of photosynthesis, and leaves appear red because that plant is reflecting some of the red light. More intense light helps, but iron does not. And it can harm other life forms.

The nutrients in FCS are in proportion according to botanical studies, so it is not likely any one will be overdosed.

 

[jaylach]

Iron should not be dosed as a solitary nutrient. There are 17 nutrients required, and chances are that more than just iron will be deficient. I used this product some years ago along with Flourish Comprehensive Supplement (which also has iron), and killed the floating plants and partially melted the floating leaves of red tiger lotus. I created an iron excess, and this will cause plants to shut down uptake of certain other nutrients. I stopped using iron for a couple months, then restarted the additional dose to see, and sure enough same problem.

Iron is a micronutrient and not much is needed. Light is the critical key when it comes to red leaf plants; red (along with blue) is the driver of photosynthesis, and leaves appear red because that plant is reflecting some of the red light. More intense light helps, but iron does not. And it can harm other life forms.

The nutrients in FCS are in proportion according to botanical studies, so it is not likely any one will be overdosed.

Thanks @Byron. I wasn't thinking of just going with iron only, just small amounts now and then to help red plants as to color. On casual searches I found several indications that an added iron supplement in ferrous format would help with the red coloration. That said I trust what is advised here over what I can find on a casual search.

I DO have red and blue lights in my LED array and use all three, white, red and blue.

Not trying to hijack this tread or anything... Just "fishing" for as much info as possible which should also help the original poster..

 

[martincregg]

Thanks @Byron. I wasn't thinking of just going with iron only, just small amounts now and then to help red plants as to color. On casual searches I found several indications that an added iron supplement in ferrous format would help with the red coloration. That said I trust what is advised here over what I can find on a casual search.

I DO have red and blue lights in my LED array and use all three, white, red and blue.

Not trying to hijack this tread or anything... Just "fishing" for as much info as possible which should also help the original poster..

feel free to hijack… discussion is good.

 

[Byron]

Thanks @Byron. I wasn't thinking of just going with iron only, just small amounts now and then to help red plants as to color. On casual searches I found several indications that an added iron supplement in ferrous format would help with the red coloration. That said I trust what is advised here over what I can find on a casual search.

I DO have red and blue lights in my LED array and use all three, white, red and blue.

Not trying to hijack this tread or anything... Just "fishing" for as much info as possible which should also help the original poster..

Agreed. Re the light, green is as important as red and blue, perhaps surprisingly; while only red (primarily) and blue drive photosynthesis, adding green to the mix does iprove plant response, which is not too surprising given the similar spectrum of sunlight. I know iron is touted by some as the only thing you need for this or that, but it is more likely that there is more to this. Iron is a heavy metal, and all conditioners detoxify heavy metals for a reason. We can add them back with plant additives, but only in proportion. Walstad mentions that iron can be the limiting factor for algae growth, meaning that too much iron can cause algae. I don't need to get into the botany which I don't fully comprehend, but it is worth remembering that many nutrients can do this, and providing them in balance and no more than what the plants can use is important.

 

[Stan510]

I dose a small amount every other day and have had great success if i do say so myself. Seachems works great. You need to try it- then tell me what happens.
I havent had any problems with fish or green algae since going to iron. You only need a small amount and what's good about Seachems is that its very absorbable by the plants- no time left to poison fish.
It's not the cheapest in price but for your small aquarium a bottle should last months,easy.
As far as Bar and his 17 herbs and spices..most tap water has enough of them along with feeding the fish providing plenty of the 17. Iron,THAT'S the one that makes a huge difference.

 

[jaylach]

Thanks for the replies. I think there is a lot of advice given that deserves thought by both myself and martincregg.

​

 

[martincregg]

I dose a small amount every other day and have had great success if i do say so myself. Seachems works great. You need to try it- then tell me what happens.
I havent had any problems with fish or green algae since going to iron. You only need a small amount and what's good about Seachems is that its very absorbable by the plants- no time left to poison fish.
It's not the cheapest in price but for your small aquarium a bottle should last months,easy.
As far as Bar and his 17 herbs and spices..most tap water has enough of them along with feeding the fish providing plenty of the 17. Iron,THAT'S the one that makes a huge difference.

Thanks for info. I have 5 tanks, but this is the first one with potting compost. That’s the main just of my question. I’m learning a lot though from the varied replies

 

[jaylach]

Thanks for info. I have 5 tanks, but this is the first one with potting compost. That’s the main just of my question. I’m learning a lot though from the varied replies

I agree in that this thread has been informative especially as I'm new to a totally live planted tank and, for a first try, it is heavily planted. Actually I MAY end up over planted as I figured I'd kill at least half of the greenies as I have a VERY black thumb Shoot, I actually managed to kill a luck bamboo. To my surprise all the plants are doing fine. When I get my drift wood next week I also have to snip (for the second time) a root node off one of my sword plants. I swear that I will never buy a plant again other than from https://www.wetplants.com/. I mean pristine and healthy plants delivered in my current two orders. Not only healthy delivery but the swords and java ferns were mature.

Now consider the above with a contaminated plant from Petco killing everything in my tank. I won't say that WetPlants is cheap as they are not. Still I'd rather pay a premium price for quality.