Lighting Questions From A Light Noob

[Phoenixfish]

hello folks
i have a Jewel Rio 125 and am trying to make a fairly decent planted tank out of it (yeh ive be stalking the plant sub ^.^)
but the bulbs that come in the standard rio multilux
only come with 2 X 18watt bulbs and i want to replace these with better bulbs for plant growth (its DIY CO2 and liquid ferts if anyone cares) now if my understanding is correct the inside the multilux there will be 1/2 18watt balasts which enable them to work i asume that if i were to use 32 watt bulbs or what ever (im reading up as i tpye os be gentle to the nooB) then they wouldnt work as they would need 1/2 32 watt balasts.

... cutting short the crap

A) can i use higher wattage T8's (as far as im aware) on my current fixture or will i need to replace it for one with higher balasts, which if so is out of the question

B) i may look into additional bulbs but with all the hassle i doubt thats an option

C) ill get some relectors possibly tomorrow if able os that will help increase my current bulbs

D) do you sugest i replace my bulbs they are coming up to 6 months old so they are still good but i want bulbs which will improve plant growth. if so what am i looking for (aka types)
EDIT: after searching it seems that the ballast is upto 20 Watt bulbs so thats the watage im looking for but what type? and/or spectrum thingy?
mucho's thankos for any help

also if anyone knows a shop around my area (stoke,newcastle,hanley etc(i actually live in penkhull if anyone care ;P)) which sell Ehiem 2213 classics id appriciate it as im trying to get hold of one but all the shops sofar only stock fluvals whic are waaay to big n bulky, i cant get one off the net for a couple of reasons but mostly parents >.<

 

[SuperColey1]

In short . look at the journal in my signature page 6

For Example - You can run 100W from an 18W ballast but it will flicker like mad and only be getting 18W total power, does this answer your question.

Fluval tanks are powered by a single unit of 2x15W which powers 2 x 18w tubes. Therefore giving you an impression you have 36W when in fact the tubes are only getting 30W of power so a little bit of a con really.

Check your ballast(s) label(s) and tell us what you find.

My suggestion would be to remove the T8s and use T5 PC or like I have 1 x 55W in unison with one of the original tubes on an 18W electronic (no flicker ever) ballast.

Have a look at page 6 see what you think (or look at the pics from page 1 to be really impressed with the changes)

Andy

 

[Phoenixfish]

okay well i did a quick search on the net for the ballast and it said to use ether 18 or 20 watt bulbs so therfore isnt the ballast higher to cope with the extra wattage,
could a T5 fit in my current T8 bulb space? i mean id have to somehow get hold of some light end caps that fit T5's (if you own a jewel lighting system you will understand) im next going to read your journal, and then edit this with some more comments etc,

EDIT: Oh mint ive been reading your journal, i mean i need to read into all this but i may start pm'ing you for more info
main question is where is your new ballast as if you look on the link to my lighting (above see mulitilux) there doenst seem to be a way into the light system but TBH ive never looked, so you recon i should hold off buying the reflects and pricing up/reading up on the ballasts n T5 bulbs etc or buy just one for the front T8,
ill prob have more questions but for now thanks, ill log back in later tonight and do more researching ill visit my local later

EDITcouple "o" hours later) well went to my favourite LFS to see at their bulb ranges etc



they had that T5 starter unit (is that like everything i.e. the ballast, switches etc it looked it......the thing i need to make the bulb work XD)

by interpet, for a 24 watt long T5 bulb,

they also had reflectors for T8 and T5, i think ill just litterally add the T5 to the underside of the hood,
i need to look at the physical lengths of the unit and dimentions because ideally id like to hide the ballast/unit running behind the tank, does anyone have one of these
if so could they give me the approx/dimentions for : -

(mains plug)]------------------------------[(unit) ]--------------------[(T5 bulb conection)
............................1.................................2............ 3

1) the distance from the wall plug to the unit
2)the dimentions of the unit
3)dimentions from the unit to the T5 conector

i know your all screaming at me that i should have looked in the store but i was in a hurry if no one replys/owns one ill just look on tuesday,
on a brighter note they ordered my Ehiem 2213 external for me and it should be there tuesday ^^ also on their next plant order they are going to order and reserve some moss for me thats off the bogwood aka pure mossy goodness and not stringy bits attached to overpriced bogwood, s'all looking good ^^

 

[Phoenixfish]

*small bump*

ive just realised that the starter unit i was going to buy is for my tank takes 2G11 end cap T5 bulbs are there different types and/or which is better? for light and cost efficiency
because at the shop that i found that starter unit they onyl had the standard 2 pin (IP64?! end caps) i.e. smaller T8's i didnt see nor have i ever seen a 2G11 version then agian isnt that the same as the one in your conversion supercoley1?
are theres bulbs usually fairly avalable aka (i should have spotted these really instead of daydreaming lol) or are they more specialised?
if i were to buy that starter unit thats got everything i need i havnet missed out some major component or anyhitng have i?!? comeon help a lighting newb, ive tried looking for a DIY how to but i cant find one,
if my understandin is correct a starter unit is basically a Ballast and a control unit in one?! or have i missed something important?

 

[SuperColey1]

The interpet starter unit you have there is the same type as my 55W. basically this is for a twin compact bulb which is a T5 bulb folded in half.

Yes they are different to the T5 and T8 bulbs.

T5 and T8 have 2 pins at each end.

T5 twin compact or PC (power compact) has 4 pins.

My 55W it 22 inches long whereas a normal 48W (if there is one) would be twice the length.

therefore my PC 55W is actually 2 inches shorter than my T8 18W.

The leads are about 2m from plug to unit, 2m from unit to light so no woriies about length of cables.

My unit is indide my cabinet and the lead goes to the top of the tank and into the hood.

On ebay you are looking for an electronic ballast WITH end caps (get exactly the wattage of your T8 bulb) like this one that I got

http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...p;rd=1&rd=1

Then you can cut and snip.

What you have is a Jewel 'I' bar and I'm not sure how to get into it but there must be some clips somewhere within the plastic that hold the ballast in there. Otherwise you could get Some REAL wood and make your own I bar using the original end caps although this would be quite tricky.

Andy

 

[Phoenixfish]

right then this is where the real noob shows himself *takes a breath*

i thought that the interpet starter unit was the ballast and everything else id need to be honest (what im asking is if i brought this starter unit and a bulb it would work?!)
why would i need a new 18 watt t8 ballast? or is this how you did yours supercoley1?im not going to alter miine now, i was planning to keep both the T8 bulbs AKA not touch the I bar and simply attach the T5 PC bulb ( ) to the underside of the back flap possibly by a t5 reflector.

thanks for the starter unit dimentions though very useful and also means that its feisable to fit, i was thinking of somehow drilling through the reflector (if i can get a pc one/somehting eqivalent)and then bolting the relector to the hood seeing as the hoods only made of like 3 mm plastic it shouldnt be a problem,
like where this crummy red line is thus allowing me to keep the 2 T8's and add a T5 ^^

 

[SuperColey1]

I was in my own world and thinking you were gonna do the same as me and replace one of the T8s therefore needing another ballast to run just 1.

Yes this is an all in unit and you just need to add the bulb.

You will be OK to do the T5 bolt job.

What I did was I bolted the reflector to the hood (also a 3mm plastic hood) then bolted through the reflector the tube clips for the Power compact bulb.

Measure first because if you use a 22" reflector which is for a 24" tube it will overhang the Power compact end cap and possible lead to melting it you want to chop about 1½ - 2 inches off it so it doesn't overhang the end cap.

Beware one thing. These high powered lights give off a shed load of heat and with mine it is attached to the hood (there is no rear flap) and therefore if it warps it will still be together. with yours being a flap if it warps it may collapse and in worse case scenario collapse into the tank!!

See if there is a way you can shore up the flap so that it cannot do this.

Andy

 

[Phoenixfish]

ill have to see, how much hotter then t8s seeing as there isnt much i can do to reinforce the tank if thats the case i may have to stay at t8's

id add some images but i cant find my cam lead >.<
but i think this project will have to be put back a month, im fairly broke at the moment seeing as i just brought my 2213 which should be here tomorrow and then im ment to be going out a fair but with friends and aka im slowly runngi out of cash but we shall see, im alittle worrid about the heat thing though

 

[SuperColey1]

If you touch the top of the hood over your T8 it is 32C/90F

If you touch the top of the hood inbetween the 2 lights it is 34C/93F

If you touch the top of the hood over the 55W PC bulb it is 38C/100F

If you touch the top of the hood over the 55W PC End cap it is 104C/

These are not exact temps as I put a normal metal based kitchen standing thermometer on top of each relevant area, but they do give an idea

May not seem a lot but the hod was designed to withstand the heat from the 18W ballast and tube, whereas where the T5 is there are a few bumps and dips where the plastic has sunke by ½mm or so.

Andy

 

[Phoenixfish]

hmmmmm its not that bad then the warping but i am slightly worried at the end cap temp ?!!

you know the back of the rio theres a 2 slots where you can feed wires through would a small pc fan help if it blew across the endcap? might think of my possibilities,
but tbh it sounds safer to go with a t8 bulb but first i will calculate my wattages and possibilities, thank you for those temperatures tho supercoley1,

do you have a rough conversion of what a 18 watt PC would equate to in T8's i.e. 2 55watt or 4 24 watt etc

as for the same price (actually slightly cheaper) i could get a 18-24 watt t8 bulb starter unit, again from interpet (as far as i could remember) and i recon with a small shove i could fit one ether side of theI bar, (if i can find a twin) of the current givein me 3 18 watt t8 bulbs i have to measure it against the bracing bar, as it might be a tight fit lol (just had a quick play and they should fit,)
if i were to add a 18 watt t8 that would give me a total of 1.6 watts per gallon (54 watts, 33 us gal tank) plus if i add relectors that should increase it abit more even with out the reflectors 1.6 is still a better wattage then 1.1 watts currently.
like i say im hopefully picking up my new ehiem 2213 today so ill have another look at the starter units because i only checked one of three shops so i could possibly get a better deal/option at teh other which is on the way,

 

[SuperColey1]

I think you will find that the WPG rule assumes that you are already using reflectors, therefore you will have 1.6WPG with and less without.

conversion? 1 PC is 'supposed' to be equivalent to 3 T8s but I doubt this. They are undoubtedly better and also with reflectors the bulb blocks less of the light that returns from the reflector therefore letting more light reflect into the tank.

Personally IMO 1.6WPG is no man's land with plants (I asuume you are going this route) 1.6 is still low light and therefore not much better than the 1.1WPG you have at the mo.

2-3 is the safe option (I have 2.8) so that you can learn under medium to medium high light whereas 3+ you are looking at high to very high light

2WPG should be enough to grow most plants well.

Remember the higher you go the more algae you risk and you need to get on top of EI and dosing etc before this happens!!! Believe me if you get this wrong you will wish you had never bought higher lighting. Get it right and you will be chuffed to bits.

Get the CO2 sorted so it reaches 30ppm before you even conside adding to your lighting.

p.s. The temp of the endcap was with the 3mm of the plastic inbetween endcap and thermometer. Imagine how hot the endcap is !!!maybe 130-150 possibly more!!! very surprised myself.

Andy

Oh if you do go the T8 route, just buy a second hand starter, Arcadia or Interpet, or Glomat (Glomat also do 1 that takes 2 T8s). Much cheaper normally you can get a Glomat twin starter for £20

 

[Phoenixfish]

i was talking to my local about the bulbs and the potental of t5's and he surgested that i try t6's which fit into t8 I bars which give better lighting then t8's (they are slightly larger bulbs then t5s, you just need to buy a sort of thick "o" ring so that the jewel I bar is still waterproof) and they had also had a stock of gromat starter units,seeing as the bulbs are almost the same price im going to try replacing my t8's with 2 T6's (with reflectors and the "O" rings) and if these work then ill go about adding additional T6', im just searching the web for the make of the T6 bubls they had in store (it started with R and ended in ux, their webie is r***uxlight.com or something alike) but the person at the local is a great guy and does alot of planted and coral tanks so he knows a fair bit, im going intomorrow to probibly order the rings and bulbs, as i need one or two other things, lol they must think im stalking the store ive been in soo many times this last week lol
so im currently reading up on t6's

"T6 - HO Grow Lights - The Next Generation. T6 lamps fit into standard 24", 36" or 48" , T8, and T12 fixtures, and have standard bi pin connections. Universal wattage - 32 to 55 watt (48" lamps). T6 lamps work with T8 electronic ballasts, or for maximum output use T5 ballasts." seeing as i have a 24" T8 I bar this may be a more feiesable option? still cant find that god damn site tho >.< apparently they are between 25-40% more eficient in the lighting they produce per wattage(from differnt sites some say 25 some say 40),

 

[fishstick]

The fluorescents you saw were ( I think) Realux T6 superlux. Mine are 25w 11,000k and I think they do give a better light than the supplied tubes from Juwel. The web site on the box is www.realuxlight.com

 

[Phoenixfish]

The fluorescents you saw were ( I think) Realux T6 superlux. Mine are 25w 11,000k and I think they do give a better light than the supplied tubes from Juwel. The web site on the box is www.realuxlight.com

THATS THE ONE thanks ^.^

and the "O" rings i was talking about are called brushing sets ,
and the bulbs are : -
Spectrum grow aka pink plant one
and
Daylight
with added reflectors they seem a great idea and although more exspencive then T8's im suprised i havent heard more of them

 

[SuperColey1]

Realux is correct but you shouldn't be getting 11000Kelvin if you want planted. Have a look at the lighting link in the planted section.

Planted tank ppl usuually go for a 5000-7500 range light (might not seem as bright to the human eye, but it is closer to natural light (daylight) as in Daylight Plus. You should also luck for lights with a tri band spectrum on their rating meaning that they emit some blu but loadsa red and green. 11000 is more suited to a marine tank)

You can buy the pink plant ones if you want but check the spectrum scale on the side of the box (I have 2 Original Tropical Arcadias in the cabinet under my tank which are reserves, because they are cheaper than Planted tubes by £4 or so.

They say promotes plant growth but that can be said of any light. They are not as good as Arcadia Freshwater which are £4 dearer. They are more to enhance the fish colours and will make white sand look pink!!!

I only use Arcadia freshwater in the front 18W T8 because I already had it. It will be replaced by Interpet Daylightplus as soon as it reaches a year because as I have sen with the PC version and also from reading George Farmers comments the Interpet Daylight plus is the best around at the mo for a reasonable price (Of course for ridiculous prices there are probs better)


Andy