Lighting question

[Def]

Quick lighting question. I thought I had this figured out until I had a chat with a guy in a new LFS.

My marine tank will be 48 * 18 (front to back depth) * 20 (top to bottom tall). Measurements to be finalized, but the tank will NOT be more than 24" tall. So we're talking about 60, 70 odd US gallons.

I originally intended to use metal halides retrofitted in the hood, to give me a good 6 to 8 watts per gallon. I eventually want to keep corals and possibly clams. I won't rule out keeping anemones either but the jury is still out on that - I'm happy to lose the anemone if necessary.

The guy in the shop (and a couple of ppl on the forum) have suggested that if I get 4 or 5 T5's, I won't need to get halides. The advantage of this is a: heat won't be a problem - if I get halides, I know it's going to be a major issue, especially in summer. b: cost difference from halides to T5's is going to save me a fair bit. I'll need an actinic either way, so that's not an issue.

So I'm throwing this one out here. With the tank specs and what I want to keep, can I stick with T5's or are halides the best option. I know halides will produce better quality/more powerful light, but that's not what I'm asking here. I don't want to pay £250 for T5's now and then another £350+ for halides in 6 months, so whatever I buy now will be the "final" purchase.

Note the caveat at the start where the tank will not be more than 24" tall, and most likely 20" or 22".

Thanks for your opinions/comments.

 

[Navarre]

My original tank was 22inches deep. I had 4x T5s over this tank and I had a multitude of soft corals, 1 Montipora and 2 acroporas. (No Clam though).
They all lived in this lighting without a problem, growth as ok (not fantastic but adequate and might not have been a lighting issue). Polyps were fully extended so on the surface I would say that T5s were strong enough for soft and hard corals to live under.


But....


T5s simply were not strong enough to turn the hard corals from their normal brown colouration to the fantastic greens, purples and blues you see in many marine hobbiests reef tanks. ALl my acros were brown but after i introduced them to twin 150w halides over the tank my Montipora turned a lovely green colour and both my acros started to turn blue. Unfortunately i lost both acros when i upgraded to a larger tank and nearly lost my motirpoa but i think i have managed to save it. They are now under 400w halides and i posted the pictures here recently. The colouration was quite remarkable.


So yes.. Your lfs has given you the right info but if you want nice colouration you will need some form of halides over them IMO>

Also as a bonus... you simply cannot subsitue the glitterlines that halides produce over a tank. T8s and T5s simply cannot do this )


Heat is definately a problem with halides (i have terrible trouble with mine in the summer) but if you want good colouration then im sure you will find ways to get around this.

 

[ste2k3]

another thing to consider is running costs. a halide bulb may last a year and cost £50 to replace. T5's should last about the same but cost around £20 a tube and with 4-5 of them, you could be looking at £80-£100.

I don't want to pay £250 for T5's now and then another £350+ for halides in 6 months

In that case, I'd go for halides.

ste

 

[Navarre]

I dont know where you are located but i assume you are fro the UK considering your prices are in "£".

If this is the case then i would never pay £350 for halides. I paid roughly £120 for my 400w Halides with 10k bulb.
Admittedly the case is not as sleek in design as the slimline ones but it it does the exact same job and can easly be hidden with a carefully designed hood.

 

[Aquascaper]

I paid £94 For my two 400w halides with 8k bulbs & I'm buying 2 x 20k bulbs @ £45 each.

So in total 2 x 400w 20k Metal Halides for £184

I may get some retrofit reflectors @ £38 each but i'll wait and see how they look over the tank first

Oh, quick question for Navarre (sorry to hi-jack), I have the same lights as you and was wondering if you could run two lower wattage bulbs off the one ballast (combined wattage still @ 400w)?

 

[Def]

Thanks for the input guys. My LFS has said a taller hood (extra 8") is only a few quid more, so that will help with the halides/heat a little. I'd forgo the clam for this, but Navarre's comment about the coral colours is a clincher.

Navarre - where did you get your halides for that price? (yes, I'm in the UK). If that cost is accurate to what I can get now, and ste2k3 makes a really going point about bulb costs, I'm leaning back towards halides.

ste2k3, one question. I agree with your bulb-replacement cost comment, but aren't halides far less efficient than T5's, thus using more electricity and costing more for actual running?

 

[Navarre]

Hope its ok to post this link here if not then please remove it and i will PM it.

aquabays

Give steve a ring as he is a very very helpful person and probably the most consienscous shop owner i have ever spoken with. He simply wont sell anything to anyone that he feels is not right!

Tell steve that Navarre recomended his site. Probably wont get it any cheaper but it will let him know he is being recomended for his good work at least

Good luck with em

 

[Def]

Wow, nice shop. Thanks for the link Navarre, not seen that place before.

Follow up questions

1. Am I better off getting two 250w units, or one 400w unit? (I guess this is really 2 questions, is 400w enough and is it better to have 1 or 2 lamps)

2. The single ended lamps are the best because of UV issues - is that correct?

3. The grammar on that page is a bit suspect . It reads like I get everything I need with that unit, except for the halide lamp and a normal plug? Is that correct? Because if so, it's far cheaper than any other place I've found and gives me over 6w per gallon...

£74 for the 400w unit, £43 for the single ended 400w lamp, 99p for the plug is £117 from Aquabay.

STM sell the same type (ok, it's more compact) for £209.

And one of the LFS's was quoting me £300+ for halides.

Thanks for the help. Oh, finally the power consumption question still stands

 

[Navarre]

The 400w halide is exactly the same one as i use (Got it from that shop actually ).

You will need the hanging kit if you have no way to hang it (about £5) Yes you need only the things you have listed and a power cable. Just a flex from a DIY store the same size you see on extention cables. This is wired into the top of the halide (very simple to do.. has to be for me to do it!) and then fit the lug on the other end! Hey presto ! one halide ready for useage!


As for coverage. 2x250w will give a better overall coverage when compared to a single 400w. However, if you place the 400w in the center of the tank then it will do a great job! the light on the edges will be more than edequate for all soft corals and you can keep the hard corals in the center if you like.

I have a single 400w over my tank (48 long 24 high) and its position to the left of the tan. I did this deliberately so that i had 1 side of the tank far brigher than the other. This means i have a high lit area for my hard corals, and a shaded area for corals that prefer lower light levels. I keep my softies on the right and sps on the left. If you look in the marin section i have a recent post with my tank piccys in there. You can see the light coverage in that if you li ke.

Im no expert on single or double ended bulbs buti have heard from very knowledgeable peope that single ended are better so i wont argue on things i have no knowledge over

Steve is a great guy and very busy, he writes the pages himself and his spelling is almost as bad as mine from time to time. Yep you get all thats needed as mentioned above exept the plug, bulb and lead. (and a hanging kit which i recomend).
If you want a choice of bulbs then i know setve has 10k (i have this) and 20K i was after a 14k at the time but steven never had any in stock. if you give him a bell he might be able to get the 14k for you (his shop as far more than listed on the website and a phonecall is highly recomended.)

Power consumption


OK well here is the facts as i know them. Halides are the poorest light you can get for converting power to actual light (this is one reason why they get so hot!) they lose alot of thier power through heat which could be converted to light. When compared to flourescant tubes they are by far alot more superior to halides for converting energy to light (they run far cooler). However the problem is, to get the same sort of intensity that a halide can produce out of a set of tubes means you just wouldnt be able to fit em all under the hood!

Lastly, i dont recomend you use watts per gallon as a rule. What is more i mportant is the hieght of the tank. the deeper the tank the more powerful the light. You can have a 10 gallon tank which is 1 foot long but very tall. the equasion you have would probably tell you a small tube will suffice but it simply wont penetrate deep enough into the water. )

hope this helps

 

[Def]

Navarre, thanks for your help, really appreciate it.

One last question (you knew this was coming ). You said I'll need to hang the 400w, but the problem is I need to retrofit it in the hood. That's why I was looking at the STM lights (link in my previous post) with the remote ballast. Remote ballasts will slightly reduce the heat, and make the lamp unit smaller/easier to mount.

Can I retrofit the Aquabay halide to my hood, or am I going to have to go with the small STM one with a remote ballast?

Ideally I don't want a huge hood - if I can get away with standard size, that would be great (ie: not the extra 8" they offered). That's what confused me, in a previous post I thought you said you had retrofit yours into the hood, but the post you just made says I'll need to hang it?

 

[ste2k3]

with the power question, a topic that often comes up is a 400watt halide will use more than 400watts of power. As navarre said, they are not very efficient but if you get electronic ballests then you wil save more on the electricity. I think with bulb replacment costs taken into acount, halides will still work out cheaper but I'm not 100% on that.

ste

 

[Navarre]

op syes i thought you were going to hang it. Doesnt mean it cant be done though. TO be honest i really think you should give steve a ring and tell him what plans you ahave and whether it will fit. He really does know his business and wont try and sell you it if its not gonna work. (one of the few people i know that refuses to stock aneomones in his shop and wont sell to people due to the large numbers that die in transportation)

 

[Def]

Will do. Thanks.

 

[Great Lakes]

IF you were going to start slow and work into clams and acros,(SPS), I would use a slightly different, although more pricey aproach.

I would start with an Icecap 660 ballast with 4 110w bulbs.

Then once my tank has reached a maturity level to confidently add SPS and the more light loving creatures, I would add pair of 250w halides.

You can then run the VHO bulbs all day, (Icecap even makes a dawn/dusk controller for the 660), and just run the halides for a 6 to 10 hour period.

GL

 

[Def]

GL, can you explain why you'd do that instead of just adding the halides?