Lighting Question

[FoundMoney]

As you may have seen previously, I have renewed interest in my tank (actually it's not that I lost interest, I just didn't have free time) and want to get it back in shape.

I've had it for almost three years now. The first year I spent establishing it and putting in the plants and fishes I wanted. Year two saw it prosper, with regular maintenance and water changes from me, albeit with some ups and downs as I experienced all kinds of unwanted flora (read: algae). Year three saw me start my own business and subsequently the loss of any thing resembling free time. I had to struggle to find time just to do regular water changes, let alone anything to maintain a planted tank. The plants suffered, although some miraculously remained alive, however tenuously.

Now that I'm able to spend a couple of hours a week on my tank again, I have renewed interest in having it thrive. I have a million questions, but let me start with this. Do I have too much lighting?

Currently I have two hood lamps, a double tube All Glass fixture that came with my tank. It has two tubes with 25 watts each. The second is also an All Glass 20 watt single tube. The double has the standard All Glass replacement bulbs. The single has a Philips bulb for plants and aquariums that I bought at Home Depot.

I have been trying to get my tank in balance between lighting, plants and fertilizer. I would say the tank is probably about 35% planted and I want to get that up to about 50% (plant suggestions?). After reading for the past couple of weeks I'm starting to wonder if I actually have too much light, since I don't have a CO2 system and will not be getting one. About a week ago, I started adding Excel to the tank and I think it makes a difference, although I also re-started adding liquid fertilizer, which I hadn't been doing.

Since my total wattage is up to 2.33 WPG, is that getting too high with no CO2? My thinking is that with the Excel I'm going to be just about right for maintaining the plants at a healthy level with slow to moderate growth.

 

[Themuleous]

With that much light, I would want CO2. Its to risky not to have it.

Sam

 

[FoundMoney]

With that much light, I would want CO2. Its to risky not to have it.

Sam

Adding pressurized CO2 is not really an option. I suppose I could try the DIY stuff but it sounds messy.

Would a better plan be to lower the available light? I have both lights on timers. I could cut out the second light or run it only a couple of hours per day. Or I could put in a different spectrum bulb to get some interesting lighting effects.

My experience over the last 2 years is that the 50 watts alone is not enough to get even Java Fern growing, yet adding the extra light seems to promote algae if I'm not careful. I think I can keep the algae at bay by doing weekly water changes and a bit of scraping, cleaning and pruning.

 

[SuperColey1]

Over a 30USG I would just use the 2 x 25s (I assume they are T5 with this wattage)

If they are in a sealed unit with proper reflectors you can ignore the WPG rule as these lights will have much less 'restrike' than the WPG rule (based on T12s) allows for.

By this I mean that yes 1W from a T12 is the same as 1W from a T5, but of the 1W how much is redirected from the reflector back downward without hitting the bulb on its return.

2.25WPG of T5 will be like having 3-4WPG if going by the T12 rule and therefore would definately need CO2.

Therefore if you just use the 2x25W then this 1.6WPG (although still being high with no CO2 IMO) will be less risky.

The figures above are pure speculation of course and won't be accurate but will be closer than the WPG rule.

As a guide I have '1.8WPG' T5 HO over a 33USG (tall) and I can grow high light plants (although I don't at the mo) but I do have CO2 which under these lights I think is a definate must!!!

Andy

 

[FoundMoney]

Actually, the 2 25 watt bulbs are T8 I believe (skinny tubes) and the single 20 watt is a
t12 (fatter tube). This is the light here:
http/www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...mp;pcatid=13612

And this is the single bulb:
http/www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod...mp;pcatid=13447

I took the light fixture out of the hood so I'm just using the light. The reflector is rather poor also, as it is only white plastic.

Over the past week, I'm actually seeing some pretty good growth. I have a banana plant that just sprouted a new leaf in the past day or so, my crypt has really filled out, the valisnaria is starting to send out runners and it is growing back to its full height. The corkscrew val that I thought was gone from my tank is starting to sprout out of nowhere and my Java fern is starting to grow larger leaves, while in the past it has just grown bunches of tiny ones. The only problem is I'm starting to get some green spot algae on my crypt and anubias. Maybe a little cut back on the lighting will do the trick.

 

[Themuleous]

If you cant get co2 in tot the tank, then your only option is to reduce the lighting, unless of course you want to grow algae.

BTW java fern is v v slow growing, as such increasing the light might increase growth but as its so slow you just wont realise it. I have java fern growing under 1.5WPG.

Sam

 

[FoundMoney]

The funny thing about my Java fern is that it has grown a lot. It actually came in as a stow away with some other plants and is now three good sized plants. But the growth is a lot of little leaves instead of long leaves that I've seen in most other tanks.

So, it sounds like I should stick to just the two bulbs. Can I use the other light for some other spectrums to add some color to the tank or add a "moonlight" look?

I am also using Excel at this time. I read that it provides about 60% of the carbon that injecting CO2 does. Will this allow me to use more light without growing too much algae?

 

[SuperColey1]

Going by the links you gave it looks like they are all T8s although if the single is fatter then this can't be the case.

If its not printed on the bulb what size it is then its pretty easy to gauge as a T8 is .8 of an inch whereas T12 is the same width you get in most ceiling fluorescent strips or shop fittings.

If the 2 tubes are T8 then you are looking at a medium to low light tank which seems to be the way to go these days as I think it is now the accepted ideal of rather than cramming as much light in as possible to use as little as is needed whilst stil gaining the required results.

Take a look at this tank using 1WPG (although it still does use CO2) You could just replace the daily dosing of TPN with a homemade solution of NPK and use Seachem Flourish instead of Tropica for trace.

<a href="http/www.fishforums.net/content/Plants-and-Planted-Tanks/208540/http-www-fishforums-net-index-php-showtopic-208540/" target="_blank">http/www.fishforums.net/content/Plants-a...owtopic-208540/</a>

You could follow the link on photoperiods in Sam's signature and use the double fixture for your whole photoperiod i.e. 10 hours straight and time the single to come on in the central 2 hours as a 'Noon burst'.

i.e. 4-2-4 / 1.67WPG-2.33WPG-1.67WPG

This would be similar to my setup (Mine is 0.9WPG-1.8WPG-0.9WPG) if you assume that my 2x30W T5HO with good reflectors gives up to twice the T8/T12 we are near enough equal in light actually going into the tank and my tank is 33USGTall so similar in size

I would suggest getting some reflectors though

From the plants you are quoting above this should be sufficient to see a nice slow growing tank similar to the tank you see in the link.

I think that 60% is a huge exaggeration on the CO2 input of excel although I may be wrong. It would be impossible to print how much it actually provides as it would all depend on the plant growth rates, fert regime, lighting etc as to how much Co2 is needed. At this point pressurised comes into its own as you can increase/decrease appropriately whereas excel is a dosage per 40 litres of tank so its quite limited really but I know Tom Barr does have threads on Non CO2 tanks that use excel instead on barrreport.com and they would be around your light range so may be worth a look.

Andy

 

[FoundMoney]

Andy, thanks for your post. There's a lot of good information there. Maybe All Glass has some new models since my setup is almost 3 years old, but the dimensions and the wattage is the same so it leads me to believe it's the same equipment. The size of the bulbs is definitely different and the bigger one is definitely T12 as it's printed on the bulb. I like the "noon burst" idea although I like the siesta idea as well. Maybe if total light is being reduced the siesta isn't necessary.

That pretty much squares me away on the lighting question although it certainly raises some other questions on Excel, fertilizers and the like. I'll leave those for another thread.

Many thanks!
Erik

 

[Themuleous]

BTW T8 = 8 8th of an inch or 1 inch diameter. T5 is 5 8th of an inch, T12 is 12 8th of an inch diameter.

Sam