Lighting Question

[SuperColey1]

Smith, I am not getting much luck on this anywhere else, guess I'm too impatient. Can you help me?

Only me again banging on about light improvements.

What I have decided on is that to improve my lighting I want to put a single TwinCompact T5 55W Daylight Plus lamp in the rear section of my hood (behind the ballast section) and leave the front bulb as it is T8 18W Original Tropical.

The problem is this.

The hood at the moment is a Fluval Duo series and is as you still buy: 2 tubes mounted either side of a plastic recess, which if you open the outside of the hood you can see the ballast and wiring etc. i.e. if you turn the hood upside down if it didn't have sides its side profile would be like a W, thecentre being where all the electrics are and then covered up by a clip in panel on the top of the hood.

What I want to do and this is where I get lost is turn this unit into a single 18w, which is impossible for me with my lack of any kind of electrical knowledge. This system stops working if either bulb or either starter is either not present or failing, so how do I turn it into a single ballast with a single starter for a single tube. My other option is to jam the 2 tubes in the front section but these would be mighty close together and due to the curved front of the hood. the repositions tube would be very close to the water, and if I lower the water, then the surface line is visible below the hoods bottom, which I don't particularly like.

Any ideas, I'm sure its just a case of remove this and remove that, but I wouldn't know ehere to start.

Andy

 

[smithrc]

What did you aim this at me for

I'll take a look at the hood of our 1200 tonight and see it I can see a way of doing it neatly...
Do you have a dremmel?

 

[SuperColey1]

Sorry Matey, I know youre good with electrics, and DIY section is always sooo slow (apart from the cold cathode pin. lol)

Not too bothered about keeping the wires tidy. Its mainly in the recess (access panel on the top/outside of the lid) there is a ballast unit which links to 2 starters (access on the inside, sealed with 2 plastic caps) which are linked to the 2 end caps of the tube

Pic of the inside is below

recognise the Cold Cathodes in the middle. lol

Looking at the pic I want to use the tube on the left, leaving it where it is, and remove the tube on the right ad put in its place a twin compact that will be powered by its own external starter unit.

The first thing I thought of is just take the tube out so that only the front one works because there is enough room in between the 24" tubes end caps for the 22" T5. Problem is if 1 of the 2 starters is not connected the lights don't work, if one of the tubes is not connected, neither work. They seem a closed circuit that relies on the whole circuit to work.

Is there a cut this wire and connect to this wire solution, so that the ballast is only powering the front light and only uses 1 starter working without the other tube and starter being there? Or will I have to remove all the electrics and buy an external starter for this light as well.

Wasn't aiming at you really just knew how helpful you normally are on the electrics side of things especially.

Andy

 

[smithrc]

I'll give it a look at tonight.

Sounds like your going down the easier route...

I'd be tempted to spend a little more, and go for a double 55W ballast and another tube
You'll regret it in the long run if you decided you wanted more light.

I was thinking of how to open the centre section up and remove the existing electronics and put the twin 55W ballast in there with the T8's and connectors getting replaced by the PC's....

Other than that it should be fairly straight forward

 

[SuperColey1]

I did think about this but over a 29G (with 26Water) tank that would give me 4.2WPG and this would be serious algae problems for me, cos I'm so lazy.

Its easy to open the recess up. On the top ouotside there is a panel which encloses all the electrics, when this panel is off it is like this (forgive dodgy diagram)

n_n

the lights being under the n and the ballast and wiring in the _ middle. I just wanted to put 1 TC in the back and then leave the front tube working as it is at the moment, hopefully just altering the wiring a little so that it works on its own. I guess it would probably just be easier to buy a second hand 18W starter off ebay (and probs safer)
This still gives me 2.8WPG and that is more than enough as I don't want to go the pressurised CO2 route.

I'll have a proper look at the wiring and see if I can see if the unit are working in a single line, like ballast to starter to tube to starter to tube, then maybe I can cut the circuit after the first tube and it might work, is possible that the second doesn't work without the first lamp, but the first may work on its own.

never really thought about it but when it stopped working last time it was the front tube that went and that stopped the second from working. If the front light is the second and the first does work without the second then I'll just cut the circuit off and put the back light at the front, then insert the T5 in the back.

The front light will mainly be just to bring out the colour of the fish (Triplus or Orig Tropical) whereas the T5 will be the flower boosta (Daylight Plus)

Tip for you on light bulbs if you use T5 TC - Surrey Pet Supplies website 55W bulbs (half the price of anywhere else) about £7.50 Daylight Plus or Triplus

I'll let you know what I discover tonight.

dzzzzzzzzzzzz%%%%%%%%% if i dont get shocked lol. have to remember to unwire the lighting from the cable tidy.

Thanks anyway
Andy

 

[smithrc]

Yep - got you - I tried to get the centre cover out when we upgraded the lights in the 1200 but failed
so I added another tube and ballast - took me up to about 200W over 180L with reflectors...
BUT we had Pressurised CO2 and solenoid etc.

I'll have a closer look tonight and once I'm in there I'll have a poke about
Modifying the wiring shouldn't be a major problem.

The PC ballasts are quite bulky so it looks like you'll have that down the back of the tank somewhere.

I know I ran the 1200 on one bulb for a while and it was ok... at the moment - one comes on then a few secs later the other pops into life...

try taking out one of the starters then turning the unit on....

 

[SuperColey1]

with the screwdriver the top panel pops off quite easily. Its a Fluval Duo series hood and the recess is huge considering theres just a few wires and a small ballast in it.

I tried taking a starter out the other night, and it stops the whole unit working. seems it needs both starters to ignite.

At the mo mine is the same as yours one light goes kerching kerching and then comes on and a second or 2 later the other one follows. they are both brand new so its the starters I guess doing this (they are still the orig ones, so at least a year old). I'll have a look tonight and then maybe just see how cheaply I can get a 18W T8 starter for.

 

[SuperColey1]

Smith I think I sussed it

Here is a pic inside the recess (outside of the hood) with the flap off

Brown (live) goes from mains to ballast, the a series of white wires go:
BALLAST to BACK RIGHT END CAP
BACK RIGHT END CAP to RIGHT STARTER
RIGHT STARTER to BACK LEFT END CAP
BACK LEFT END CAP to FRONT LEFT END CAP
FRONT LEFT END CAP to LEFT STARTER
LEFT STARTER to FRONT RIGHT END CAP
Then the blue (neutral) goes back to the mains so..........

can I change it to:
mains brown to ballast
ballast to front right end cap
front right end cap to right starter
right starter to front left end cap
left end cap to blue mains?

The Ballast has on it 30W T8 2 x 15W, so although it is the original ballast for this hood it is underpowering the tubes it already has.

Will it overpower a single 18W tube i.e. will it try to put 30W into an 18W tube?

Andy

 

[smithrc]

I bought the 1200's hood into the house (its the duo 1200 I keep refering to btw).
If I unplug one or other tube - the other still works... same with the starters - undo one the other still works
So in the case of the 1200 it would be an easy mod - just run the wire to the hood and fasten the 55W PC into the hood...

It was no good - I had to open it up... and was in for a shock.... you know your ballast... well the 1200 hood has 2 of them... the same ones! 30W T8 2x 15.
so the twin 38W tubes actually only get 30W each! Max.

Just followed your description of the wiring

If you were to un wire the 2nd tube by moving the neutral to the back left end cap - you'll be driving at 30W into a 18W tube.... whats the worst that could happen (dont plug it in over the tank )

a safer alternative would be to strip the ballast out and get a 15W single (2nd hand would be cheap as chips) and wire that in stead.

OR... how about going twin 36W PC?

 

[SuperColey1]

Just goes to show when we buy these kit tanks, that maybe we didn't nee better lighting, just the correct ballast. lol.

The trouble is my tank is 30 inches long and I think the 36W twin compact is only 16 inches long. I want one daylight in the back and one Triplus in the front and therefore they would have to be in the centre and would be really dark at the ends of the tank.

Where would I find just the 18W ballast then. Any old style DIY shop? Looked in B&Q at dinner today and couldn't find anything for fluorescents other than full housings and tubes!!

Sorry yours is the same as mine and they have conned you out of 18W of possible lighting!!! I wonder if Jewles are the same???, although Juwel tanks are a lot more expensive so I doubt it.

http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fluorescent-lighting...1QQcmdZViewItem

Can I just put this where the old one was and connect to the end caps and starters in the correct order? ot does this electronic one need somethign else as well?

 

[smithrc]

http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fluorescent-lighting...1QQcmdZViewItem

Can I just put this where the old one was and connect to the end caps and starters in the correct order? ot does this electronic one need somethign else as well?

That would do nicely... I'd un wire that lot it comes with and wire it to your existing end caps

the other should actually pop out and you can seal the holes to stop water getting in... will the PC ballast with in there to?

 

[SuperColey1]

If you look at the pic from above of the recess. the only holes in the recess area are:

where the mains comes in (no hole into the tank. It is through a solid channel to the outside)
where the end caps clip into a square hole (The end caps have a rubber sealer that blocks all the edge to this hole)
where the starters are (The starters are accessed from the tank side of the hood, and have plastic caps sealing them in)

I would only be using one starter but leaving the other in so that I know where the spare is. lol I would probably remove the end caps from the back and silicon around the TC lead going out, and silicon another piece of plastic over the other end.

I would have to use clips to attach the TC bulb to the hood, probs screwed through my existing T8 reflector and bolted inside so there weas just the screw head on the outside.

I don't know if the starter unit would fit inside, maybe it could be taken apart and just the ballas, starter and cables used?

With the recess having no ventilation, would it get too hot with these 2 ballasts in there? does the starter unit have its own fan or just the vents to let hot air out?

Just looking at the unit on ebay. Do electronic ballasts not need a starter?

 

[smithrc]

where to start....

The PC ballasts are electronic also - they wont need starters (the juwels are electronic too)
They dont have a fan or anything fancy, but they do tend to run cooler anyway.

I'd strip the 18W one down to the smallest you can (even if it needs a hacksaw to remove any unwanted mounting chassis )
Then I've open the PC ballast to see what size the internals are... (its only a few screws - I had to unwire the leads on our 2x 36W to thread it through the hood on our nano marine, they were nice enough to use terminal block on the output so I simply noted wire colours and positions and un-did the lot)

You could easily add a fan at either end - drill a grid of small holes at either end, fit a 60mm fan behind them and your away. no heat worries.
While your in there you could house the CC driver and wire it all up to the same power supply...

Lincon is a bit far for me to pop over - but this sounds like fun - shouldn't take long either

 

[SuperColey1]

Lol, It will give you something to look at when you next use the 1200. and also from now on you can have extra lighting without loads of bulky starter controls hanging in the stand.

I bought that ballast. I hope it will run T8 and not just T5.

When I get the TC I will have a look, because if I can get this equip into the hood rather than hanging I can keep thing tidy like they are now. Then if I do want to update (after I'm a lot more experienced with plants and algae control), I'll just buy another single and put that in as well.

Not too sure about the fan, this is out of my depth territory. I will have to dio a bit of reseach on this, but I guess I could have a look at the one in the PC and do the same as with the cold cathode.

Regarding wiring the 2 lights together. Not gonna do that because I am intending putting each on a timer to achieve the following

Cold Cathode Moonlight will be on (single tube on 6V, the other that you see in the orig pic fell in the water during the night, whilst turned on (but didn't short out)

12pm-2pm = 18W Triplus and Moonlight on, 55W daylight off
2pm-12am = 55W daylight and 18W Triplus on, Moonlight Off
12am-1am = 18W Triplus and Moonlight on, 55W daylight off
1am-12pm = Moonlight

Should be a lot more natural for the fish, and the plants, we'll see what happens. I am moving in 2-3 weeks time, waiting as always, and I have all sorts to redo in the tank, waiting brand new in boxes are:

Second Nutrafin CO2 kit
Tropica Plant Nutrition Fertiliser
Drop Checker for CO2
Gamba bubble counter and stop valve
Rhinox 2000 ceramic diffuser
New lovely real pine wood cabinet (This cost £45inc deliver off ebay and is brand new)

Now just waiting for the 18W ballast, a single TC 55W starter and a Daylight tube to go in it.

Hope it doesn't end in disaster. lol