Are you going to be taking the 10g down, if so then the more plant in the 50g the better.
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Let the silent cycle commence!
- Thread starter Animallover😍
- Start date
Bruce Leyland-Jones
Fish Aficionado
No!
Not as long as you still have fish in that tank and you should add more, to absorb any ammonia and to stop burning the gills and skins of those tetras.
Sorry I thought everything was getting transferred over.
OP
OP
Animallover😍
Fishaholic
I would add the the plants from the 10g after I transfer the fish.
OP
OP
Animallover😍
Fishaholic
Yes.
Bruce Leyland-Jones
Fish Aficionado
Plus, the longer the plants are exposed to the fish in the 10G, the more beneficial bacteria will grow on them.
Please slow down and try not to rush your bigger tank's cycling.
Please slow down and try not to rush your bigger tank's cycling.
These fish are better off in a stable 10g than an unstable 50g. Please don't rush things, move along as fast as your knowledge is moving along, don't get a head of yourself.
OP
OP
Animallover😍
Fishaholic
Ok. Then I will leave the plants in the 10g and just get enough plants to fill up my 50g.
OP
OP
Animallover😍
Fishaholic
I just fed my fish for the morning. Instead of having to push the food down, one brave fish(the one that had acclimated the fastest and was the most active, all the other fish follow him around 
) nudged the food on the surface so it fell down for the others! I had a bit of mosquito larvae problem in a bucket, then I remembered, fish love live foods right?! Plus fresh protein! So I put the mosquito larvae in the tank and they loved it! Today when I tested the water was:
Ammonia: Wasn't 0.25 or 0ppm, somewhere in between but closer to 0, I'm hazarding a guess 0.1-0.15ppm, yay!
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
All going well so far, fish have very bright red noses and aren't so scared, when I was doing the water change, they just swam around the siphon instead of sitting in their usual corner so I'm very happy! Love the fish!
Also, I had a 0.5g (supposed to be) betta tank, I had put some snails in there. Some of the ceratopteris had turned brown, so I put it in there, 2 weeks later, it's changed to C. Cornuta! Also put a leaf that fell of the wisteria in there, and it grew a baby one on it!
) nudged the food on the surface so it fell down for the others! I had a bit of mosquito larvae problem in a bucket, then I remembered, fish love live foods right?! Plus fresh protein! So I put the mosquito larvae in the tank and they loved it! Today when I tested the water was:Ammonia: Wasn't 0.25 or 0ppm, somewhere in between but closer to 0, I'm hazarding a guess 0.1-0.15ppm, yay!
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
All going well so far, fish have very bright red noses and aren't so scared, when I was doing the water change, they just swam around the siphon instead of sitting in their usual corner so I'm very happy! Love the fish!
Also, I had a 0.5g (supposed to be) betta tank, I had put some snails in there. Some of the ceratopteris had turned brown, so I put it in there, 2 weeks later, it's changed to C. Cornuta! Also put a leaf that fell of the wisteria in there, and it grew a baby one on it!
Last edited:
OP
OP
Animallover😍
Fishaholic
Happy tetra pics
Here's a video(their faces are redder than that.. just the camera is not too good)
I've been trying to do a video it's so hard!
Here's a video(their faces are redder than that.. just the camera is not too good)
I've been trying to do a video it's so hard!
The little guy on the left hand side of the first picture. Watch him he doesn't look like he is in that good a condition. These fish like all Tetras get what I call wasting away disease, where they don't eat and just disappear.
OP
OP
Animallover😍
Fishaholic
He's the smallest of them all. He does eat the fish food that they eat though, but the other tetras usually get most of it before he does.
I do observe him during feeding times.
I do observe him during feeding times.
OP
OP
Animallover😍
Fishaholic
A pic of the most active and brave of my rummynose tetras eating.
OP
OP
Animallover😍
Fishaholic
Oh yes I tested today and..
Ammonia 0.1
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5
Ammonia 0.1
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
I see almost no issues with what you have done.
3 rummy nose will not make much ammonia and the stem plants on the tank should have arrived with some of the needed bacteria on them. It appears as if the articles I wrote which explained ammonia toxicity is not longer on the site.Oh well. I will write some of it here again so you will understand.
Some Important Facts About Ammonia
Ammonia in water exists in two forms. NH3, which is the familiar nasty gas we know. Fish exhale NH3. Rotting organic matter will also create ammonia. This stuff is highly toxic and will definitely be harming fish by the time it reaches a concentration of .05 ppm (Some fish and inverts need even lower levels to be safe). However, most of the ammonia in water exists in the form of ammonium which is NH4. This is way less harmful. But in sufficient concentrations and/or exposure times, it causes external burns. The typical test kits we use measure Total Ammonia (TA) which is the sum of both NH3 and NH4.
Knowing how dangerous any level of TA might be requires that one know not only how much total ammonia there is but also how much of that total is in each form? The answer depends upon two other water parameters- pH and temperature. The higher the pH and/or temperature, the more of the TA that is in the toxic NH3 form. To calculate how much of the toxic NH3 form of ammonia requires that you know what the pH and temperature of your tank water are. Once you know all three numbers (total ammonia, pH and temperature) there is a formula for calculating how much of the total ammonia is in the form of NH3. It is way more complicated to use than most of us can handle. Fortunately, there are charts and tables available for this calculation. There is also currently a handy dandy ammonia calculator you can find here: http://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php
1. Choose NH (NH3 + NH4)*
2. Enter in the total ammonia reading from your test, choose ppm.
3. For a fresh water tank, enter 0 for the salinity.
4. Enter your tank’s current pH.
5. Enter your tank temperature and choose F or C, whichever applies.
6. Click Calculate.
The number you want to know is the one for NH3.
[* If your kit measures ammonia as nitrogen aka –N, choose NH-N (NH3-N + NH4-N) in step 1. above.]
Why do you want this number? Because, to get a tank cycled you need to have ammonia (and nitrite) present and you want to have as much total ammonia present as possible without causing permanent harm to the fish. And it is the NH3 that will cause the real harm. Your goal is to allow the total ammonia to rise as high as possible as long as the NH3 content does not get to .05 ppm using that calculator. And even if that level of NH3 is not reached, there is still a limit to how high one can allow total ammonia to rise. The danger line for NH3 comes from the Merck Veterinary Manual, Veterinary / Exotic and Laboratory Animals / Aquatic Systems / Environmental Diseases in Aquatic Systems
Nitrogenous Compounds
Remember, NH4 can still cause ammonia burns. This writer’s normal cutoff for total ammonia for more than a few days or so is 2 ppm. As a rule of thumb, you can run at 2 ppm of total ammonia with the NH3 being well under .05 for some short amount time. The lower it is under .05, the better. At under .02 ppm of NH3 many fish can be in up to 2 ppm for a number of days and still be OK. The best sign of how long is how the fish behave. If they act distressed, then that is high and/or long enough. Some fish can manage in higher levels, others can’t. This is why you must also watch the fish as well as the test levels.
So I took the numbers you reported: pH 6.8 and ammonia .25 ppm. I had to assume a temp. as you did not list that. So I ran the numbers twice, once at 77F (25C) and once at 82F (27.8C). Here are the results for NH3. I also assumed you have no salt in your water.
At 77F (25.0C) NH3 = 0.0009 ppm. (You need 55.5 times this amount to be harming fish.)
At 82F (27.8C) NH3 = 0.0011 ppm. (You need 45.4 times this amount to be harming fish.)
Neither of the above is a problem at all. What these numbers are telling you is that your fish could be in .25 ppm TA for a few weeks and it will do virtually no harm. However, the goal is always to have a tank with 0 TA when it is established. That is because as fast as it is made, it is being used.
Why are things as they are in your tank? It is the pants and the bacteria they have on them. Pkants consume NH4 (ammonium) much faster than the bacyteria consume NH3 (ammonia). When the plants use the ammonium they do not produce any nitrite or nitrate in the water. While most plants prefer ammonium to nitrate, when there is not enough ammonia but there is nitrate, plants will use it. But they do so less efficient;y because they have to revers the process and turn it back to ammonia to use.
So the reason you are seeing 5 ppm ot nitrate is because the bacteria are still using some of the ammonia and that ends up as nitrate, however, your plants are getting all the ammonia they need at this time so they are not taking up the nitrate.
A silent cycle is defined as using plants (and the bacteria on them) to consume ammonia so it does not present a problem. this can mean you never get an ammonia reading or you get a very low one for a short time. However, it differs from a normal fishless cycle because one adds fish over time in the oplanted tank but you can add a full stocking level to a tank cycled without fish.
Doing a partial fishless cycle when plants are involved changes how things work and therefore how one does things. For one, lower levels of ammonia are used.
Finally, the bacteria live all over a tank not just in ones filter. So when you go to upgrade from the 10 to the bigger tank, move the entire contents of the 10 gal and all of the media in the filter to the new tank and there should be no or very minimal cycling related issues. The substrate now in the 10 should be the top layer of the substrate in the new tank, do not bury it as it contains the bacteria we want and there is not enough oxtgen for them much below the first 1/2 inch of substrate. Once the plants root, this can change. But that as another conversation entirely.
3 rummy nose will not make much ammonia and the stem plants on the tank should have arrived with some of the needed bacteria on them. It appears as if the articles I wrote which explained ammonia toxicity is not longer on the site.Oh well. I will write some of it here again so you will understand.
Some Important Facts About Ammonia
Ammonia in water exists in two forms. NH3, which is the familiar nasty gas we know. Fish exhale NH3. Rotting organic matter will also create ammonia. This stuff is highly toxic and will definitely be harming fish by the time it reaches a concentration of .05 ppm (Some fish and inverts need even lower levels to be safe). However, most of the ammonia in water exists in the form of ammonium which is NH4. This is way less harmful. But in sufficient concentrations and/or exposure times, it causes external burns. The typical test kits we use measure Total Ammonia (TA) which is the sum of both NH3 and NH4.
Knowing how dangerous any level of TA might be requires that one know not only how much total ammonia there is but also how much of that total is in each form? The answer depends upon two other water parameters- pH and temperature. The higher the pH and/or temperature, the more of the TA that is in the toxic NH3 form. To calculate how much of the toxic NH3 form of ammonia requires that you know what the pH and temperature of your tank water are. Once you know all three numbers (total ammonia, pH and temperature) there is a formula for calculating how much of the total ammonia is in the form of NH3. It is way more complicated to use than most of us can handle. Fortunately, there are charts and tables available for this calculation. There is also currently a handy dandy ammonia calculator you can find here: http://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php
1. Choose NH (NH3 + NH4)*
2. Enter in the total ammonia reading from your test, choose ppm.
3. For a fresh water tank, enter 0 for the salinity.
4. Enter your tank’s current pH.
5. Enter your tank temperature and choose F or C, whichever applies.
6. Click Calculate.
The number you want to know is the one for NH3.
[* If your kit measures ammonia as nitrogen aka –N, choose NH-N (NH3-N + NH4-N) in step 1. above.]
Why do you want this number? Because, to get a tank cycled you need to have ammonia (and nitrite) present and you want to have as much total ammonia present as possible without causing permanent harm to the fish. And it is the NH3 that will cause the real harm. Your goal is to allow the total ammonia to rise as high as possible as long as the NH3 content does not get to .05 ppm using that calculator. And even if that level of NH3 is not reached, there is still a limit to how high one can allow total ammonia to rise. The danger line for NH3 comes from the Merck Veterinary Manual, Veterinary / Exotic and Laboratory Animals / Aquatic Systems / Environmental Diseases in Aquatic Systems
Nitrogenous Compounds
Remember, NH4 can still cause ammonia burns. This writer’s normal cutoff for total ammonia for more than a few days or so is 2 ppm. As a rule of thumb, you can run at 2 ppm of total ammonia with the NH3 being well under .05 for some short amount time. The lower it is under .05, the better. At under .02 ppm of NH3 many fish can be in up to 2 ppm for a number of days and still be OK. The best sign of how long is how the fish behave. If they act distressed, then that is high and/or long enough. Some fish can manage in higher levels, others can’t. This is why you must also watch the fish as well as the test levels.
So I took the numbers you reported: pH 6.8 and ammonia .25 ppm. I had to assume a temp. as you did not list that. So I ran the numbers twice, once at 77F (25C) and once at 82F (27.8C). Here are the results for NH3. I also assumed you have no salt in your water.
At 77F (25.0C) NH3 = 0.0009 ppm. (You need 55.5 times this amount to be harming fish.)
At 82F (27.8C) NH3 = 0.0011 ppm. (You need 45.4 times this amount to be harming fish.)
Neither of the above is a problem at all. What these numbers are telling you is that your fish could be in .25 ppm TA for a few weeks and it will do virtually no harm. However, the goal is always to have a tank with 0 TA when it is established. That is because as fast as it is made, it is being used.
Why are things as they are in your tank? It is the pants and the bacteria they have on them. Pkants consume NH4 (ammonium) much faster than the bacyteria consume NH3 (ammonia). When the plants use the ammonium they do not produce any nitrite or nitrate in the water. While most plants prefer ammonium to nitrate, when there is not enough ammonia but there is nitrate, plants will use it. But they do so less efficient;y because they have to revers the process and turn it back to ammonia to use.
So the reason you are seeing 5 ppm ot nitrate is because the bacteria are still using some of the ammonia and that ends up as nitrate, however, your plants are getting all the ammonia they need at this time so they are not taking up the nitrate.
A silent cycle is defined as using plants (and the bacteria on them) to consume ammonia so it does not present a problem. this can mean you never get an ammonia reading or you get a very low one for a short time. However, it differs from a normal fishless cycle because one adds fish over time in the oplanted tank but you can add a full stocking level to a tank cycled without fish.
Doing a partial fishless cycle when plants are involved changes how things work and therefore how one does things. For one, lower levels of ammonia are used.
Finally, the bacteria live all over a tank not just in ones filter. So when you go to upgrade from the 10 to the bigger tank, move the entire contents of the 10 gal and all of the media in the filter to the new tank and there should be no or very minimal cycling related issues. The substrate now in the 10 should be the top layer of the substrate in the new tank, do not bury it as it contains the bacteria we want and there is not enough oxtgen for them much below the first 1/2 inch of substrate. Once the plants root, this can change. But that as another conversation entirely.
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