Killing Male Guppies, Help!

[opieapplejack]

Hello.

I have a 45 gallon tank. I first added 4 fancy guppies, 2 male and 2 female, and 2 dalmatian mollies. All was fine with most of the fish, except the male guppies had died within the week. I then replaced the males with 4 more males, and added two small bottom-feeding catfish. Eventually, all 4 male guppies died. I replaced them with 4 more male guppies, which then all died after a short amount of time (under 3 weeks). Eventually, I had killed 12 male guppies. I also added two sword-tails to the tank, which brings us to the current state of fish in the tank.

Bottom line is, at various times through this process I have had my tank water tested (and been cleared of any major wrongs leading to the dead fish). I have literally only killed male guppies, as the two original female guppies have survived and appear very healthy (one even gave birth).

I know I'm leaving out many variables here, but is there anything specific one would need to watch out for specific for only MALE guppies? I'm completely baffled.

To describe the deaths in detail, the dying male will have his tail go from a normal fanned out fin to a more streamlined shape. The tail eventually looks much like the body in that it is the same general shape. The fish will become a bit bowed in the body, making a SLIGHT upside-down U, just enough to look irregular. The fish will then use much more of the entire body to get around (as opposed to just using the fin, probably since the fin is not fanned out), and will become much less actively, usually ending up not feeding. Then, I find him at the bottom of the tank, brought to that big tank in the sky.

Not every male guppy has gone in this specific manner, but many of them have, and all of them have died. I have not had any other deaths in the tanks from any species, and know that I have both males and females of other species co-existing.

Again, is there anything specific to male guppies I should be watching out for? Are my other fish just hardcore feminists out for guppy blood? I want to house the pretty male guppies, but I really don't want to kill any more of them!

 

[MOW4T]

doesnt really help you but just to mention the exact same thing has happened to about 4 of my femlaes recently

 

[OldMan47]

In order to help we will need to know about the tank you are talking about.

How long has it been set up?
How was it cycled?
How many fish are in the tank?
What is the ammonia concentration?
What is the nitrite and nitrate readings?
What is you water temperature?
What kind of filtration are you using?
Do you have hard water from the tap?
What chemicals do you add to the tank's water?
How often do you change water in the tank and how much?
How often do you clean the filter and how do you go about it?

I have probably left something off the list that I should have asked, but that will be enough to get going.

 

[Haych]

are the fins being nipped at? mine go like that when being bullied, abd they can be bullied to the death

 

[karigupi]

are you buying all of your male guppies from the same stockist? Sometimes unfortunately you can get very weak guppies from shops these days.

Oldmans post has all the questions in that would needed answering to try to get a better picture of what might be going on there.

When stocking male & female guppies, you really need one male for at least 2 females, preferably 3, there could be some bullying going on there, which may contribute to their deaths.

 

[opieapplejack]

I have not witnessed much bullying at all by the guppies. The mollies tend to bull each other, but leave the guppies alone. All male guppies had perfectly normal looking tails when found dead, outside of losing the fan shape as previously described.

I'm not sure the exact levels of the nitrates/etc mentioned earlier, but I've taken a water sample to 2 different pet stores and both have said that I'm in the clear.

I have also purchased male guppies at both of these locations, with the said results.

Today I purchased another female and 2 more males.

Total fish in the tank are: 4 female guppies, 2 male guppies, 4 dalmatian mollies, 2 small catfish, and 2 swordtails. Just recently there have been a large amount of baby guppies birthed into the tanks also, I'd say about 7 total. I will note that all of these male guppy deaths occurred over a period of a month, and with the aforementioned fish (or less) in the tank.

I was told by the local fish store that guppy life expectancy is only 8-10 months, and of course the store knew nothing of how old the fish were when they get them in. Also, the very attractive looking fish have been specifically bred to look so pretty, so lots of them have a bad immune system since natural selection is absent. They recommended adding a feeder guppy or two to the mix, since they are stronger to disease and such. The babies produced will probably be better off.

I guess we'll see what happens to the babies and two males I added to the mix today.

 

[OldMan47]

If you keep just believing everything is fine, with no numbers provided, you will keep buying fish from them. A guppy will easily live well over a year, as mine always do, so just keep buying and believing their stuff.

 

[STFA_Striker]

If you keep just believing everything is fine, with no numbers provided, you will keep buying fish from them. A guppy will easily live well over a year, as mine always do, so just keep buying and believing their stuff.

Bit harsh old man the bloke is just looking for a little bit of help. Plenty of people arent advanced enough in the world of tropical fish to know the ins and outs of everything as you do and thats why you are so respected by myself and others on here.

Now back to the topic at hand, it doesnt look as though you have anything that is likely to be overly agressice towards your male guppies, as previously mentioned you need to either up the amount of female guppys you ahve in your tank or go exclusively with males as eventually an outnumbered female will become stressed and die.

I have had the exact same symtoms in a yellow snake skin male. He was a hell of a lot smaller than my other guppies and i would hazard a guess at the fact that due to his select breeding he may have been weakened and thus the same result. I would look at purchasing a couple from somewhere else as you may find the two pet stores are buying from the same supplier. You coul also look at keeping your fry alive and using them to build your own breeding stock as i am currently doing

 

[karigupi]

I have not witnessed much bullying at all by the guppies. The mollies tend to bull each other, but leave the guppies alone. All male guppies had perfectly normal looking tails when found dead, outside of losing the fan shape as previously described.

I'm not sure the exact levels of the nitrates/etc mentioned earlier, but I've taken a water sample to 2 different pet stores and both have said that I'm in the clear.

I have also purchased male guppies at both of these locations, with the said results.

Today I purchased another female and 2 more males.

Total fish in the tank are: 4 female guppies, 2 male guppies, 4 dalmatian mollies, 2 small catfish, and 2 swordtails. Just recently there have been a large amount of baby guppies birthed into the tanks also, I'd say about 7 total. I will note that all of these male guppy deaths occurred over a period of a month, and with the aforementioned fish (or less) in the tank.

I was told by the local fish store that guppy life expectancy is only 8-10 months, and of course the store knew nothing of how old the fish were when they get them in. Also, the very attractive looking fish have been specifically bred to look so pretty, so lots of them have a bad immune system since natural selection is absent. They recommended adding a feeder guppy or two to the mix, since they are stronger to disease and such. The babies produced will probably be better off.

I guess we'll see what happens to the babies and two males I added to the mix today.

I really hope you have more luck with these guppies, but a couple of points I would advise.

The shops are ultimately in the business to make money, if you keep going back every few days to buy new stock, they are going to be very happy, so please dont rely on their advice.

You need to be able to check nitrite, nitrate & ammonia yourself, get a kit, they may seem a bit expensive, but they last a very long time & give you a better understanding of how healthy your tank is. The symptoms you described would point me towards water quality issues & I would avoid adding anymore fish until you know whether the water is ok. Please do not accept the shops 'ok' on your water, you need to check it yourself.

Its also worth while checking out local breeders for guppy stock, they will be more beautiful, & often Much healthier, I brought some guppies from a local chain store here & despite perfect water (checked myself) they all died within a couple of weeks, I wont go back & shop there again.

Oh & is your tank really 45 gallon? or 45ltrs?

 

[Haych]

OP where you based?

 

[OldMan47]

I must admit that I was a bit harsh and am sorry if I offended anyone. I found the idea of being told everything is fine then turning around and selling you more fish as the height of gall on the part of the shop. Obviously all is not well or you would not have been asking advice.

As others have said, the shop has their own interests in mind, not the customer's best interests or even the fish's best interests. I would agree that a personal liquid type test kit is a must.

Even without the test kit, a quick rundown of maintenance practices would give us a lot of clues about what might be going on in a new fish keeper's tank. Unfortunately, a new person will, quite reasonably, follow terrible advice from fish shops and filter manufacturers which might get them into trouble rather deeply. With poeciliid livebearers, the general characteristic of water hardness, even in broad terms like hard or soft or somewhat hard, can be a big clue to what might be the problem with fish deaths.

 

[hughessomefish]

if you can't find a the source of the problem not to offend you opieapplejack just don't buy guppys this can solve and save money,or if you buy another type of fish say swordtail and it dies then there is a problem with you water quality,please in order for us to help you we need the water stats

 

[opieapplejack]

Alright, I shall supply the stats when I get a chance to buy a kit.

I guess my real big question mark in all of this is I've never lost any other fish in my tank. I've had the same swordtails, catfish, and mollies since I started up the tank with no problems. Even the female guppies seem content and healthy. My question on the forum for more asking specifically is something in the world effected male guppies more-so than any other kind of fish.

But, when I get a chance (soon) I'll test out the water and report the results (crosses fingers...)

 

[karigupi]

Alright, I shall supply the stats when I get a chance to buy a kit.

I guess my real big question mark in all of this is I've never lost any other fish in my tank. I've had the same swordtails, catfish, and mollies since I started up the tank with no problems. Even the female guppies seem content and healthy. My question on the forum for more asking specifically is something in the world effected male guppies more-so than any other kind of fish.

But, when I get a chance (soon) I'll test out the water and report the results (crosses fingers...)

Hiya, its a bit of an odd one that it is just the male guppies which are dying, but the others arent. If it is something like excess ammonia, nitrite or nitrate in the water, it could be that the other fish are being affected, but they are stronger & more resilient (sp? sorry 5am here) & the guppies you have lost have been from a bad strain.

The reason everyone is asking for these details, along with how your tank was cycled, your tank maintenance etc, is so that we could try to help you with your problem, but without these details we can only guess. You will probably find that a mixture of bad stock, plus raised nitrates could be your problem, but how could we tell without all the info?

 

[Haych]

ok, if youre local i have a kit you could borrow, so, where you based buddy??