Just A Bit Concerned

[Kaidonni]

I'm just a little concerned. My Clown Loaches...they've been acting strange lately. The big Clown Loach I have appears, shall I say, 'restless,' or excited, swimming around a lot, not settling down. Even barging out of his castle fortress when the light is ON. The little Clown Loach I have also comes out when the light is on, and when the light is off or on, he sometimes swims up and down one side of the tank constantly, from the gravel to the top. Now, recently (as in August 12th) I had to emergency evac all my fish to a new fish tank (old one sprung a leak), and this new fish tank had been outside for about 2 months (only place it could be set up, the carpet in the front room was wet). The Clown Loaches were especially shy at that time, but right after the tank was moved into the house, they all became rather excited and came out the castle a lot. Now, there is some scratching themselves on gravel, etc, but not too often, and they've always done that (by always, I mean it's never developed into Velvet or Ich, it just seems like a random itch or something), but heck, I am compulsive obsessive, so even the slightest thing sparks me off thinking I need to do something. They just all seem...more lively. They aren't too large, so I'm not (entirely) thinking it's anything like desire to breed (I recall reading they have to be over Seven inches to be sexually mature...although it could be a sign...it's like they're patrolling a lot, admiring their reflections a lot, etc, or just in general restless/excited). Oh, and another thing...sometimes the big Clown Loach just sits half-in, half-out the castle, in the entrance. Just stays there for a while, don't know if he's uncertain what to do or just comfortable there.

Water stats...I'm having to starve some of the fish to lower nitrates, still feeding the Clown Loaches (they definitely eat what they're given...it's all the other fish who seem to be fussy from time to time). So I'd say they are above 40ppm.

Nitrites don't even register on the lowest grade on the Nutrafin test kit. Ammonia, haven't tested that, but I dose with Nutrafin Cycle which contains bacteria that convert ammonia and nitrites (last time was Sunday). Ph should be fine, last test put it in the safe zone (darn Nutrafin test kits are so hard to read though...but it's as safe as I can tell).

I guess I just need my mind put to rest. When the light is on, the big Clown Loach just barges out the castle, into the corner. He gets all pale and everything, and this encourages me to put the light off at that point. I'm planning to remove a rather large rock from the tank (from the old tank...I think it's taking up too much room, to be honest). Is he just...restless? Or excited? Or is he training me to turn the light off when he wants ? They already trained me to feed them on certain days... Also, this is keeping in mind he can settle down now and then, with the medium-sized Clown Loach I have, in the one corner (when the light is off).

I can't really do much at the moment in terms of water changes or water tests...I sliced my pinky on my right hand with a tin of beans, so it's bandaged up . Definitely don't want to get that hand in the water. I'm also right-handed. One left hand isn't very handy in this case. I'd try water tests, but then I need to wash my hands, and that is awkward (ammonia and nitrites should be okay, even none at all, nitrates should be going down, although do need to find a way to remove some broken plants).

 

[WILDER]

Is the test kit you are using liquid form.

How many gallons is the tank.
How many fish and which type.

They sound stressed to me if there swimming up and down the sides of the tank.
Are the fish darting or erratic swimming.

Sounds like it could be bad water quality, parasites, something irratating them, toxins, ph.

Has your ph changed.
Any signs of excess mucas.
Does the fish look like they have a greyish white film on them.
What do the fish gills look like.
Do the loaches look on the thin side.


Whats your nitrate reading.
have the loaches been acting odd since using the cycle by nutrafin.

 

[Kaidonni]

Is the test kit you are using liquid form.

How many gallons is the tank.
How many fish and which type.

They sound stressed to me if there swimming up and down the sides of the tank.
Are the fish darting or erratic swimming.

Sounds like it could be bad water quality, parasites, something irratating them, toxins, ph.

Has your ph changed.
Any signs of excess mucas.
Does the fish look like they have a greyish white film on them.
What do the fish gills look like.
Do the loaches look on the thin side.


Whats your nitrate reading.
have the loaches been acting odd since using the cycle by nutrafin.

There are no signs of any disease on my Clown Loaches whatsoever. When the light is on, the little Loache's gills look a little on the redish side, but he acts fine most of the time, so I can't really tell if it's just the light or me seeing things (and I do see things...with the light off, most of my tetras look like their fins are reddish, but light on, and nothing...). Definitely not thin, they gobble up any food I put in the tank. Darting...only when people move in the room. It's just patrolling as far as I can tell. It's just increased since they came back in the house, and they were all hardly out when stuck in the garage. Of course, I first used the Nutrafin Cycle when they were brought back into the house...although that is supposed to be harmless, just bacteria to deal with ammonia and nitrites (just to be on the safe side).

Tonight the big Loach has been out, he's been very settled. I think part of it is at least to do with feeding (they actually swim up and down the side of the tank at feeding time to let me know they're hungry), and maybe they are just excited. And again, the light thing, the big one might realise that when he comes out, I'm tempted to turn the light off, and he might have learnt the two go together...

Nitrates, like I said...above 40-50ppm, I'm working on lowering that. I wouldn't think toxins were introduced either. Ph was tested about a week ago, they've been doing this for some time now. I think I'm just worrying for nothing, I've just become very obsessed over my fish recently (have to check this, that, have to ask online or I feel like I'm not doing enough, etc).

Size of tank...60-70litre (UK). I think, will have to check (don't know where anything is to confirm that...box was thrown out ages ago). The Clown Loaches aren't overly large, the big one a few inches or so (maybe 3-5, although 5 is pushing it...yeah, got a ruler here, 3-4 at the most, lol, otherwise he definitely wouldn't fit in the castle), and there are two small ones (the medium one and little one, and the little one is definitely less than half the size of the big one). Five black neons, two neons, two glowlights, one red phantom tetra (most about an inch or so). EDIT: Yep, 60 litre...about 3/4 the size of the previous tank, give or take a little. I'm assuming it's UK litres...

When the emergency evac was done in August (it had to be immediate, but the water was saved for the new tank, phew...) five red phantoms died the first 24 hours, and a neon tetra...some fish have died recently, but they were tetras, and they had problems with their swim bladder (keeping an eye on that for the other tetras...). But the emergency evac was ages ago (although the loaches did have to be moved BY HAND, net and jug of water was no good for them).

I guess I'm just a bit paranoid, the clown loaches can be quite settled, or uppity, it changes. But no signs of disease on the loaches (the big one is pale when he comes out the castle, not sure if he had specks on him, awkward time to tell when his black bands would be speckled anyway as his colour came back...even checked earlier, and the other clown loaches don't have specks). The little clown loach has seemed to like coming out with the light on, doing the thing swimming up and down the glass (I think he's kicked out the castle sometimes...).

And yes, the test kit is liquid form. It's the Nutrafin test kit. Got them for Nitrates, Nitrites, Ammonia (but it doesn't differentiate from Ammonium) and pH. Reagent bottles, the works (just not the science lab or white scientist coat).

One thing I am doing now is, instead of leaving water to stand for days, I use Aqua Plus dechlorinator. It doesn't eliminate ammonia after dealing with chloramine, though, so I use Nutrafin Cycle. I leave water for 24 hours at least (although the first time it was several hours...and the time before that two weeks or so, but without dechlorinator).

Oh, last thing...excess mucus? What might that look like? I mean, they look just fine, but for future reference (or just in case it's something I don't know to look for, and it's staring me in the face...).

 

[WILDER]

Your tanks overstocked.
What the date on the test kit.

Take a sample of your water to the lfs and ask them to write the readings down for you.

Red gills can be bad water quality, gill flukes, bacterial gill rot.
Red fins bad water quality, septicemia.

Make sure the fish have no white spots the size of a grain of salt on them.

If you can't get a larger tank I would rehome the clown loaches. The tanks to small for even small clown loaches.

 

[Kaidonni]

Can't delete posts...

The test kit is well within use date. Plus the loaches have been fine today. However, there are hardly any fish in the tank as it is, and I'm not going to dare uproot the loaches (they aren't overly large anyway, and they've stopped growing, they've been the same size for ages, plus they got stressed enough last time). I'm not sure if it is a 60 litre tank, or what (the receipt could be wrong, or...I dunno).

Apart from nitrates, the water is just fine, and I'm working on the nitrates part. There are NO signs of disease whatsoever, as I said I see things (and there aren't red fins at all, it was just the lighting in the room).

The big loach was all settled all last night apart from when people came in the room, I didn't put the light on though.

 

[WILDER]

Measure your tank with a tape measure, then use the tank calculator at the top of the forum.

 

[Kaidonni]

Definitely 60 litres (measured the active water area, it isn't filled to capacity, AqAdvisor confirms that...I definitely didn't buy a 50 litre tank!). I believe the previous tank was at least 90 litres. Nasty thing to wake up to, a leaking tank...

I'm getting in touch with my lfs tomorrow, possible Velvet sighting (I say possible because with my OCD, I look for problems where there are none). I'd rehome the loaches, but I can't get a larger tank, and they already survived one major scare back in August. They had to be emergency evacced from a larger tank, BY HAND (no container would work...they were just jumping everywhere, the last fish to be evacced), and I'm surprised they survived while my red phantom tetras bore the brunt of the stress. Nothing back then except hiding in the castle, and they perked right up when the tank was brought back into the house. At the moment, there's no way I'm putting these loaches through any stress of being yanked out of the fish tank (if I need to treat with medicine, definitely not advisable to cause additional stress just now). I guess, when I get a job, my first expenses will be on a brand new, much larger tank, and I'll do what I can for now.

One thing I have changed recently is using dechlorinator. The first time, just 4 hours or so elapsed before I put the water into the tank (10 litres). A week later, another 10, but I waited 24 hours. I'm thinking, since I just dropped the 5ml Aqua Plus into the bucket after filling it with water (I also use salts each time), maybe it didn't mix properly, and chlorine and chloramine are affecting my fish. After using Nutrafin Cycle, I noticed a...rainbow effect in patches on the top of the water, like when you see petrol in water, or something (don't know how best to describe it...maybe it's the Nutrafin Cycle not mixing properly with the water? Or unrelated?).

EDIT: Fins clamping, gills definitely inflamed. Velvet? Erm...well, no white spot or black spot, that's for certain. Velvet, though, it is very hard to tell. It could just be a mark, or me seeing things (and I obsess unhealthily...I thought natural marks on my Glowlights and Black Neons were possible signs of illness, checked on Google Images, and they are supposed to look like that...and it doesn't matter that I've had them for ages now, years even, I still obsessed). I'm thinking this is all to do with the dechlorinator, yep. Possibly hasn't worked properly (might not have been put into the water correctly by me), and chlorine and chloramine may have gotten into the tank. Okay...leaving water standing for 3 days instead, then, is the best solution and to be on the safe side, since as it was how I did it since 2002 anyway until I recently became obsessed about doing the best I can for my fish with all these fancy water treatments, etc (still contacting lfs, just not touching these special chemicals with a 100-foot barge pole).

 

[Kaidonni]

Okay...looking at pics online, it can't be Ich, and it definitely looks nothing like Velvet/Oodinium. It's just a slight discolouration...hmmm...possibly from stress. I'm definitely starting to jump to conclusions and obsess... There are no marks elsewhere...and as for toxins in the water, I'm looking at the water changes being the culprit (chlorine/chloramine, or possibly ammonia if the dechlorinator did work, because it doesn't cleanse ammonia...or even just the dechlorinator itself). No use looking for signs of stress today...feeding day, they are ALWAYS excited and swimming up and down the sides of the tank near feeding time...maybe they want to eat me?

 

[WILDER]

Okay...looking at pics online, it can't be Ich, and it definitely looks nothing like Velvet/Oodinium. It's just a slight discolouration...hmmm...possibly from stress. I'm definitely starting to jump to conclusions and obsess... There are no marks elsewhere...and as for toxins in the water, I'm looking at the water changes being the culprit (chlorine/chloramine, or possibly ammonia if the dechlorinator did work, because it doesn't cleanse ammonia...or even just the dechlorinator itself). No use looking for signs of stress today...feeding day, they are ALWAYS excited and swimming up and down the sides of the tank near feeding time...maybe they want to eat me?

Can you post full water stats please and symtoms.

You can only get away with not using declorinator if you are only preforming small water changes.
make sure when you leave the water for a few days that there no chemicals able to get into the water.

 

[Kaidonni]

Okay...looking at pics online, it can't be Ich, and it definitely looks nothing like Velvet/Oodinium. It's just a slight discolouration...hmmm...possibly from stress. I'm definitely starting to jump to conclusions and obsess... There are no marks elsewhere...and as for toxins in the water, I'm looking at the water changes being the culprit (chlorine/chloramine, or possibly ammonia if the dechlorinator did work, because it doesn't cleanse ammonia...or even just the dechlorinator itself). No use looking for signs of stress today...feeding day, they are ALWAYS excited and swimming up and down the sides of the tank near feeding time...maybe they want to eat me?

Can you post full water stats please and symtoms.

You can only get away with not using declorinator if you are only preforming small water changes.
make sure when you leave the water for a few days that there no chemicals able to get into the water.

Off to the lfs to get the water tested there. Told them the symptoms, they believe it is nitrates (although the last time that was the case, the loaches went on their tails, and the other fish gasped at the top...only the loaches seem to be affected this time, gills reddened, eyes look a little protruded, still as eager for feeding as ever...).

 

[WILDER]

Ok.
Yes I would get your water tested.
Red gills can be bad water quality, gill flukes, gill rot.
Bulging eyes can be caused by bad water quality,popeye.
Gasping. Bad water quality, ph shock, parasites, toxins, overdose of meds, lack of aeration, bacterial.