Jewel Cichlid In Community

[Hunterprey]

Hey just have a question about Jewel Cichlids. I have a 40 gallon breeder tank with Opaline Gourami 4.5 inches, RTBS 3 inches and Leopard Ctenopoma 2.25 inches. I just recently added a 2 inch kribensis and 2.5 inch Jewel Cichlid
 
I've always been interested on getting a Jewel Cichlid. Just put off by their aggression. Its been 2 days and everyone seems to be getting along well. Just my RTBS chases my kribensis every now and then. Always keeping an eye on my Jewel, scared he might just snap and kill my other fish. He's only scared of my Gourami and gets on fine with everybody.
 
Will this mix work long term? I read Jewel gets more aggressive as they get bigger.
Im also thinking of adding Roseline sharks if that will work. Any suggestions for suitable tankmates are welcome

 
Thanks

 

[Byron]

To answer your question if this mix of fish will work long term, the answer is a definite "no."  For one thing, a 40g tank is insufficient space for most of these; and some of them should never be combined.

 

[Hunterprey]

Is a 3 foot tank really not enough space for fish that max @ 6 inches? Ctenopoma can reach 8" but usually stays @ 6" from what I've read.
 
Im not too worried about the size of the tank. I've kept a 6 feet tank for 2 years. I can easily upgrade.
Im only worried about the Jewel Cichlids aggression as it gets bigger. The Jewel Cichlid is the only fish in my tank that I've never kept before.

 

[DrRob]

I agree with the definite no. Jewels are basically killing machines once they get going, and an opaline and RTBS would be no match for them.
 
Can't comment too much on the Ctenopoma, it's not a fish I know well, although I'm aware of it's needs, which is why I've not kept one. 

 

[Byron]

I kept my previous response short and to the point because so often after I spend time writing a detailed explanation, I get a brisk "thanks, but I'm doing this anyway" type of answer making me feel I've just wasted my time.
 
Rob has dealt with the Jewel, so to the other fish.  The gourami should not be combined with cichlids as both are somewhat similar in temperament.  Two different cichlid species should never be combined, except in a couple of specific situations (like African rift lake cichlid tanks); cichlid and gourami is much the same.  Either should be considered the "centrepiece" with suitable "dither" fish added.  
 
The Ctenopoma is an anabantid too (like the gouramis) but this fish really should have its own space to be at its best, by which I mean a tank aquascaped with it as the centrepiece, and a 55g (4-foot) tank is minimum.  This fish normally attains six inches, but it may reach eight inches, and it is an ambush predator so it will eat smaller fish.  It would likely hold its own with the gourami, provided the surface is thick with floating plants that have root masses to break up the space, but I would not recommend this in less than a 4-foot tank and even then with reservation.
 
The Red Tailed Shark is also a 4+ foot tank fish, with no other substrate fish.  The small juveniles seen in fish stores seem nice enough, but this fish as it matures to its expected five inches will frequently become very bad tempered.  Sedate fish like gourami and Ctenopoma are not good tankmates.  This species was thought to be extinct in the wild (until very recent discovery of the species) so observation in its habitat was non-existent; but given its behaviour in captivity, ichthyologists believe it likely lived in solitude except when spawning.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Byron.

 

[Hunterprey]

Thanks for all the responses, but Im doing this anyway... (jokes) I do consider advices so its not a waste.
 
 As for the Jewel, he seems to get along with everyone. But I might have to return the Jewel or set up his own tank.
 
My concern is the Jewel attacking the Ctenopoma cause he seems defenseless besides the spines behind his eyes.
Also concerned about RTBS and Krib not get along since I had them together in the past and often chase each other like they`re doing right now.
No visible damages tho.
 
I`ve kept a 4inch RTBS with a 4inch Gourami before with success but that was in a 55galllon.
IME RTBS isn't that aggressive towards fish that are big and somewhat aggressive. I kept my 5 inch RTBS with synodontis before and never bothered them.
Perhaps its because Synos are bigger, faster and stronger. Also kept a 5inch RTBS with Cichlids in a 6ft tank.
 
I read someone`s experience with Ctenopoma and Gourami not getting along.
MIne gets along at the moment. So maybe later I have to choose between the Gourami n Ctenopoma.
Also choose between the RTBS and Kribensis in the future.
 
Thanks for all the helpful responses.
 
If I setup a JewelCichlid tank will Convicts, Salvini, and Paratilapia Polleni be good tankmates?
I've only kept the polleni and theyre quite aggressive.

 

[Byron]

As you are willing to listen (thank you, that is a sign of a more responsible aquarist) I will go a bit further, and in response to a couple points in your last post.
 
This concerns the "chasing" and "no visible damage."  This is only a small part of the real problem.  We can usually see the outward physical signs like chasing and fins nipped or even chunks out of the fish.  But before this even occurs, there are the chemical signals we cannot see, but the fish read.  All fish release pheromones which are picked up by others in that species, and allomones that are picked up by other species.  These chemical signals are used for many things, a way fish communicate, but territorial dominance and aggression are the ones to worry about.  It is quite possible for a bullied or harassed fish to be weakened to the point of death, yet no actual physical interaction occur.  [BTW, pheromones and allomones cannot be removed except by water changes, which is one reason they are so essential.]
 
This is why it is important to fully research a fish, and then always assume it will function according to the norm for the species, rather than experimenting in the hopes the individual fish may for some reason not be "normal" in its behaviours.  The environment is a big factor in this too.  Tank size affects the fish's temperament, as does the number of fish in the species (particularly applicable to shoaling species), the aquascape (some fish need certain things present to be at their best), lighting, water parameters, and so forth.
 
Risking any fish in order to "experiment" is something I do not advocate.  When one acquires a fish, one takes responsibility for its life, and while many see fish as somehow less significant than say dogs, I do not.  The few times I have had to euthanize fish have not been pleasant experiences.  The two citations in my signature are pertinent.
 
Byron.

 

[Hunterprey]

Other than the visible damage. I also look for stress signs, and check if their behaviour becomes unnatural.
It also stresses me if my fish are not getting along well so I try to resolve the problem.
 
I ended up returning the Kribensis. Constantly nipping at my Gourami and Jewel Cichlid. Also fighting with my RTBS.
 
Its peaceful in my tank @ the moment. Not sure to return the Jewel or set up a new tank.
I over filter my tank, do weekly 25% water change, and underfeed a little to try to keep optimal water conditions.
 
Im not experimenting per se, I believe some fish have different temperament or more tolerant of other fish.
Like some of my male Bettas will tolerate guppies and some won't.
If someone else had success keeping certain fish. I might give it a shot but be very vigilant.
I like animals. I catch flies n spiders in my room and release them somewhere else...
 
I like your signature but there are fish in LFS that look unhappy, like Bettas in a dirty cup.
MIne swim happily now in his own 5 gallon tank I provided
 
Thanks a lot for sharing some of your knowledge on fishkeeping!
I try to learn as much as I can about this hobby.