Jbl Co2 Diffuser Problems

[jimbooo]

Hey gang.

my JBL co2 kit has been running for almost a week now and the PH will not drop below 7.4/7.5 with a KH of 11 that gives me about 10-15 ppm co2.

the bubble rate is set to 2 bubbles per second.


i'm sorry but two nutrafins gave me more co2 than that? the bubbles are behaving, their rising up the spiral nicely and are very very tiny by the time they get to the top. whats going on here? the co2 is dissolving but no way near enough of it.

surely 2 bubbles per second is enough for a 40G. any more and it looks stupid with bubbles going so fast that they dont get time to dissolve.

i'm thinking of getting one of those glass diffusers that release a really fine stream of co2 bubbles but not too sure if they are any better than the JBL spiral thingy.

what do you guys think?

oh and the temp in my flat goes up and down during the day. when i'm out the heating is off and the rate is about 2 bubbles per second by the time you've had the heating on for a few hours the room temp goes up and all of a sudden i have 4/5 bubbles per second.

i must say i'm really not impressed with this kit. if i cant get the thing sorted the nutrafins are going back on. (and i really was hoping this would be a usefull upgrade)

HELP PLEEESE

 

[simonbrown403]

If you,ve just set the JBL co2 system up, it takes a little time to bed the defuiser in, its a sort slime, crap or what not that covers the hole surface of the defuiser slowing the bubbles down so that the water has more time to absorb the co2.

Try wraping you co2 bottle in bubble wrap it insolate it, keep it cool.

 

[RYO]

I'm with ya on that one, I have one on my 120l (and a hagan ladder)and mine keeps clogging up . No room for the other ladder so needed something smaller (width wise). Ive been looking at the glass diffusers but wasn't certain about the diy set up having a strong enough pressure.

 

[Ste_J]

Jimbooo are you running a solenoid with this kit?

Only asking because I am in the process of trying to get a stable Co2 level at the moment using the JBL which I thought I had cracked until this morning

I have bought a PH monitor with the aim of calculating time frames for Co2 build up and release, i'm aiming for PH 6.6 with a KH of 4. Thought I had sussed it all out and set up the solenoid to be on 4 times a day

07:00 On till 12:00 Ph range 6.75 - 6.61
15:00 On till 17:00 Ph range 6.70 - 6.66
18:00 On till 19:00 Ph range 6.67 - 6.64
21:00 On till 00:00 Ph range 6.69 - 6.60

Tank resumes to 6.75 and then whole thing starts again

Now this was working a treat yesterday with the plants pearling straight way yet this morning when I checked @ 07:00 I had a PH of 6.64? This was after 7hrs of no Co2 injection. Needless to say that my calculations are out of the window and I'm in the process of reseting the tank ready for round 2.

Theory behind this is that the Co2 pressure should only require minor tweaks upon the introduction of more plants.


Sorry If I have hijacked your post and your PH - Co2 does seem to be odd - How deep have you placed the spiral? and where are you counting the 2 bubbles per second? - Is this as they enter the spiral? or do you have a bubble counter setup pre diffuser?

Ste

 

[jimbooo]

nah diy wont produce enough pressure to break through the glass diffusers.

Simon, i know what you mean but it's as bedded in as it is going to get. the bubbles rise very slowly and are the size of a pin head when they get to the top. it's just not enough unless i up the bubble rate which seems rather uneconomical. i've used one 500G bottle already in a week just from fiddling with the bubble rate.

i really am disapointed. i take it lowering my KH is easier said than done?


GRRRrrrrrrr i is not a happy chappy

Jimbooo are you running a solenoid with this kit?

Only asking because I am in the process of trying to get a stable Co2 level at the moment using the JBL which I thought I had cracked until this morning

I have bought a PH monitor with the aim of calculating time frames for Co2 build up and release, i'm aiming for PH 6.6 with a KH of 4. Thought I had sussed it all out and set up the solenoid to be on 4 times a day

07:00 On till 12:00 Ph range 6.75 - 6.61
15:00 On till 17:00 Ph range 6.70 - 6.66
18:00 On till 19:00 Ph range 6.67 - 6.64
21:00 On till 00:00 Ph range 6.69 - 6.60

Tank resumes to 6.75 and then whole thing starts again

Now this was working a treat yesterday with the plants pearling straight way yet this morning when I checked @ 07:00 I had a PH of 6.64? This was after 7hrs of no Co2 injection. Needless to say that my calculations are out of the window and I'm in the process of reseting the tank ready for round 2.

Theory behind this is that the Co2 pressure should only require minor tweaks upon the introduction of more plants.


Sorry If I have hijacked your post and your PH - Co2 does seem to be odd - How deep have you placed the spiral? and where are you counting the 2 bubbles per second? - Is this as they enter the spiral? or do you have a bubble counter setup pre diffuser?

Ste

Ste_j sorry missed that.

yep it's the profi2 with solenoid but no PH controller. the spiral is 1cm off the gravel and 2 cm short of the surface.

my PH test kit is a tetra one and pretty vague. to be honest i'm going to stop having a paddy and buy a decent kit first. it jumps up in 0.5 intervals which is not too accurate for this task. the colour seems in between 7.5 and 8 but it could just as easily be 7.2 it's like asking what shade of green does this blue liquid look


i'm just disapointed ignore me i'll get a decent kit and test again. thanks for the long reply though, much appreciated

anyway i still like those glass diffusers does anyone have any links to good ones (especially if you have experience of using them)

 

[Ste_J]

Have you checked for leaks?

I've had my Co2 running for a while now and have yet to scratch the surface. There has been plenty of tweaking going on with some crazy bubble spurts going on.

I really would be tempted to check for leaks around the fittings and non return valve

 

[jimbooo]

i'm not sure how to check for leaks. i did think of that and when i replaced the bottle i did all the fittings up really really tight. i'll have trouble getting them undone again put it that way.

i checked the co2 line, non return valve and pressure reducer fitting. is there anything else i should check.

by the way how would you check for leaks i cant see myself submerging it in the bath. come to think of it i haven't got a bath anyway.

whats the normal bottle pressure, mines 50bar but the red line is at 60. operating pressure is 1.5-2 bar it varies.

 

[Ste_J]

Jimboo

You need to reduce the spiral by half

I'm only using half size on my 56G and I strongly suspect that this is the reason why you have A gone through sooo much Co2 and B why the bubbles are getting very small

Do it now and retest in an a couple of hours. My tank shifts by 0.03 every hour or there abouts


Let me know how it goes but I am sure that the full spiral should only be used on larger tanks.

Ste

by the way how would you check for leaks i cant see myself submerging it in the bath. come to think of it i haven't got a bath anyway.

whats the normal bottle pressure, mines 50bar but the red line is at 60. operating pressure is 1.5-2 bar it varies.

Soapy water for leaks i.e. just spear some around the fittings and watch for bubbles

My pressure is around 50bar and I have yet to try running at 1.5 - 2 as it seems to run around 1 although I am only running half spiral size as quoted above

 

[hunterm8]

Have you got both extensions on it so the defuser runs from bottom of tank to just below serface? looks pretty much there in pic. I was running at about 2 a sec in my vision 180 and it was about enough to get 30ppm (although i have a ph controller so when it was there i would turn of for a bit )but i have near 0 surface movement which makes a big difference. i have one of these now with seem good if unsightly http/www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?...products_id=449 i have tried glass diffuser and thought was no good but not sure if i set up right

 

[jimbooo]

reducing the spiral will reduce the co2 not increace it. the reason they say use half is to save overdosing the tank. no more co2 goes in the bottom it just stays under water for longer. i appreciate the comment but that does not make scientific sence. the longer the spiral the more co2 will be diffused. the bubbles getting small is a good thing basically the co2 is now in the water and not in the bubble. the problem is that although the diffuser seems very efficient it is not providing anyway near enough co2.

redusing the spiral by half will double the problem not the opposite. thanks anyway


i cant do anything now as i'm at work but i'll check for leakes with soapy water when i get home.

again the spiral size will not effect your bottle pressure.

reading this it seems that i am not grateful for your help, i'm just thinking out loud, sorry and thanks again

Have you got both extensions on it so the defuser runs from bottom of tank to just below serface? looks pretty much there in pic. I was running at about 2 a sec in my vision 180 and it was about enough to get 30ppm (although i have a ph controller so when it was there i would turn of for a bit )but i have near 0 surface movement which makes a big difference. i have one of these now with seem good if unsightly http/www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?...products_id=449 i have tried glass diffuser and thought was no good but not sure if i set up right

yep the whole spiral plus 2 extensions minus one single bit as it was just too tall. hmm i think the PH test kit must be wrong. let me check that and report back tomorrow, i may be moaning about nothing.

 

[Ste_J]

reading this it seems that i am not grateful for your help, i'm just thinking out loud, sorry and thanks again

No worries Jimbooo it takes alot more than that to offend me.

Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick when setting my system up. Just loking through the booklet that came with the system and it states "vario diffusion reactor can be extended as required to operate with any aquarium over 250l. The image on the box also has a picture of the reactor with adjoining text of
1x = +125l
2x = +250l

I took this to mean that for tanks over 125L and under 250 you only needed 1 spiral but for over 250l you would need 2 and there after. Whoops always get confused on stuff like this, maybe I should rtfm again.


Good luck with the leak inspection

 

[littleimp]

nah diy wont produce enough pressure to break through the glass diffusers.

Simon, i know what you mean but it's as bedded in as it is going to get. the bubbles rise very slowly and are the size of a pin head when they get to the top. it's just not enough unless i up the bubble rate which seems rather uneconomical. i've used one 500G bottle already in a week just from fiddling with the bubble rate.

i really am disapointed. i take it lowering my KH is easier said than done?


GRRRrrrrrrr i is not a happy chappy

Jimbooo are you running a solenoid with this kit?

Only asking because I am in the process of trying to get a stable Co2 level at the moment using the JBL which I thought I had cracked until this morning

I have bought a PH monitor with the aim of calculating time frames for Co2 build up and release, i'm aiming for PH 6.6 with a KH of 4. Thought I had sussed it all out and set up the solenoid to be on 4 times a day

07:00 On till 12:00 Ph range 6.75 - 6.61
15:00 On till 17:00 Ph range 6.70 - 6.66
18:00 On till 19:00 Ph range 6.67 - 6.64
21:00 On till 00:00 Ph range 6.69 - 6.60

Tank resumes to 6.75 and then whole thing starts again

Now this was working a treat yesterday with the plants pearling straight way yet this morning when I checked @ 07:00 I had a PH of 6.64? This was after 7hrs of no Co2 injection. Needless to say that my calculations are out of the window and I'm in the process of reseting the tank ready for round 2.

Theory behind this is that the Co2 pressure should only require minor tweaks upon the introduction of more plants.


Sorry If I have hijacked your post and your PH - Co2 does seem to be odd - How deep have you placed the spiral? and where are you counting the 2 bubbles per second? - Is this as they enter the spiral? or do you have a bubble counter setup pre diffuser?

Ste

Ste_j sorry missed that.

yep it's the profi2 with solenoid but no PH controller. the spiral is 1cm off the gravel and 2 cm short of the surface.

my PH test kit is a tetra one and pretty vague. to be honest i'm going to stop having a paddy and buy a decent kit first. it jumps up in 0.5 intervals which is not too accurate for this task. the colour seems in between 7.5 and 8 but it could just as easily be 7.2 it's like asking what shade of green does this blue liquid look


i'm just disapointed ignore me i'll get a decent kit and test again. thanks for the long reply though, much appreciated

anyway i still like those glass diffusers does anyone have any links to good ones (especially if you have experience of using them)

I'm using the azoo one, similar to the glass one but made of plastic. First time using it and seems to be doing fine @ around 20ppm. I have the inlet of one of my externals sitting just above it & the external doesn't seem to be making any noises like some people experience.

 

[Ste_J]

Alright I'm confused now - How long should the JBL diffuser be? Been searching the wicked wide but can't find a sensible answer

Thought I had it right with just using the 1 section - had an average ppm of 30 with the Co2 only being introduced for 11hrs per day...

Anyone?

 

[littleimp]

Just to clarify here is a pic. You can just make out the weeny bubbles with the inlet moved out of the way(pinpricks rather than heads). The float to the surface, and as they are so small they can't break the surface tension & just seem to sit their for a while & getting smaller so assume they are dissolving.

 

[jimbooo]

ok that is the kind of thing i'm after. thanks littleimp. what azoo one have you got. i just browsed aquaessenitals and cant decide. there are so many.