I've come to the conclusion, that long term, Angel fish should be a single, in aquariums

[Magnum Man]

Curious of your experience... between my past life, with fish, and the the most recent couple years, I've never been lucky enough to keep more than one Angel, without murder ( over the normal life of a fish )... I like them, and tried keeping them several times, in several configurations ( I've never kept them as a single species in a triple digit gallon tank, so maybe at some point my tanks have been too small ( the tanks I've had Angels in, have been between 45 and 65 gallons )... sure they start out great as a young group, but by the time they reach maturity, they are a group of one... and one single mature Angel must surely feel it's the king of the world... the couple adult singles I've had, had to be tank boss, and were notorious fin nippers of any other tank mates... I have found, pairing them with a companion fish ( in my case, a Silver Dollar ) has reduced their need to rule the world, and give everyone in the tank, a haircut... curious if anyone has had a group work out for 3 years for example... my last attempt ended at just over 2 years, a sibling pair, who had been together since they were about 1 inch, in a 55 gallon, ended again, in murder... how big a tank, did it require if you have a mature group... I think about how many have been killed over the years... but eventually you will find a pair, but as hard as they are to sex, and their propensity to kill, is it worth it??? Silver Dollars have worked exceptionally well for me, as a therapy fish for singles... has anyone found another fish species that's worked for you???

 

[Back in the fold]

The current thinking , if I’m correct , is that Angelfish are shoaling fish and should be kept in groups of six or more . I’ve never had any problem with Angelfish in the past and have successfully kept them as mated pairs in 15 and 20 gallon aquariums . I always started out with the youngest Angels I could find and let them pair off , moved the others when a pair formed and things went fine from there . The last time I did this was twenty years ago so something must have changed in the intervening years .

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Angels do shoal loosely, but (here's the key!) they are also both grouchy and intelligent (prone to boredom), so they need lots and lots of room to get away from each other. I've had a group of four-five in my 150g for 3 1/2 years and they do fine. There is some aggression, but it amounts to little twitching matches and occasionally one fish taking a poke at another. Once one of them gets tired of it, it can simply leave.

I just added four more babies and they are fine too; it will be interesting to see how the group dynamic develops as they grow up. I suspect eight adults will be too many and I'll end up having to rehome a couple. We'll see.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

I've heard of people keeping breeding pairs in smaller tanks as BITF mentions, and I believe it can work, but often it doesn't. In a smaller tank, say 50 gallons or less, I would probably keep a single angel, and be sure to change the decor around once a month or so to keep if from getting bored. Angels aren't easily frightened, so switching things around probably wouldn't cause undo stress. They do really seem to enjoy exploring new surroundings. Every time I add, remove, or rearrange anything, there are always at least two or three of them right there, seeing what I'm up to.

 

[GaryE]

I had a group of 6 wild caughts in a 75 gallon.
Then, I had two pairs in two tanks, a corpse, and a runt that would be tolerated in the first tank. I think we need larger tanks for them. If I ever get a 150, they'll be candidates for it. I probably never will.
Most domestic forms have large bodies and stumpy inbred finnage. It's rare to see a fancy angel in a store that I would consider selling. They're mostly culls to me. Wilds, once you take natural fin development into account, are very tall fish. Just the dorsal alone of a well bred angel should be higher than the body height. They're big fish with a mean streak.
Nature breeds them better than people do, and they aren't from the Philippines or Germany.

 

[Back in the fold]

I've heard of people keeping breeding pairs in smaller tanks as BITF mentions, and I believe it can work, but often it doesn't.

The times I did it I guess I didn’t know any better but it did work . It’s only lately that I have even heard of keeping Angelfish in nothing but big aquariums . I believe it though and I think it would be better . Once I had a pair of gold Veiltails in a 15 with 50 or so fry . It was a sight to behold . I guess the fish didn’t know they couldn’t do that either .

 

[seangee]

Before I knew better I had several attempts in a 450l heavily planted aquarium (usually triggered when Mrs Gee accompanied me to fish shop).
It always ended with a sole survivor!

 

[WhistlingBadger]

The times I did it I guess I didn’t know any better but it did work . It’s only lately that I have even heard of keeping Angelfish in nothing but big aquariums . I believe it though and I think it would be better . Once I had a pair of gold Veiltails in a 15 with 50 or so fry . It was a sight to behold . I guess the fish didn’t know they couldn’t do that either .

Some fish fail to read the books on fish behavior. Come to think of it, the same is often true of the animals I hunt.

 

[CassCats]

Many folks I know from the Netherlands (animal welfare is held to a much higher standard here) have recommended 5 foot tanks being the minimum length for angelfish because they are shoaling fish but also territorial at the same time... a 5 footer allowing room for them to behave normally.

If you watch videos of them in the wild, they do shoal together. And if they're shoaling in nature, it's something to consider in aquariums too.


If you compare it to other shoaling but aggressive fish, it can make sense here:

Consider skirt tetras! They're shoalers but they're also prone to being territorial. If you cram them into a 10 gallon, they'll start fighting and often will kill one another, yes? But that must mean that only 1 skirt tetra is fine, because obviously it didn't work as a group in the tank size we forced on them. But, if you give them proper space, they shoal but also spread out to their own spaces that they defend from one another and have space to get away when one wants to be more bossy at times.

By taking angels and attempting to put them in smaller spaces, of course it's not working out in most cases and many folks claiming they're pairing fish instead of true shoaling fish. What we deem big enough doesn't necessarily translate to what the fish deem big enough, and in many ways this hobby is always learning things and changing. Not all changes need to be fought, sometimes it's good to explore the "whys" and "hows" in the hobby.


Someone I know has a stunning group of Rio Nanay angels and some koi angels together, nice big shoal in a 6 foot tank, and they don't murder one another. Some bickering here and there, but the fish can get away from one another if need be. Its a successful setup.


Some evidence of shoaling in standard species angels (P. Scalare) just so it's known I'm not discussing altum angels here:

 

[plebian]

Most keepers of African cichlids, almost all of which are very territorial and aggressive to very aggressive, recommend packing them in. The theory is that the larger the number the less the aggression because none can stake out a territory, nor can any one dominate all the others. Seems strange that this doesn't also apply to angelfish.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Most keepers of African cichlids, almost all of which are very territorial and aggressive to very aggressive, recommend packing them in. The theory is that the larger the number the less the aggression because none can stake out a territory, nor can any one dominate all the others. Seems strange that this doesn't also apply to angelfish.

That's interesting. I don't know African cichlids, so that's news to me. Different critters play by different rules.

 

[Back in the fold]

That's interesting. I don't know African cichlids, so that's news to me. Different critters play by different rules.

Packing people together like sardines , or in this case Mbuna’s , has the opposite effect . Man plays by no rules at all .

 

[gwand]

Most keepers of African cichlids, almost all of which are very territorial and aggressive to very aggressive, recommend packing them in. The theory is that the larger the number the less the aggression because none can stake out a territory, nor can any one dominate all the others. Seems strange that this doesn't also apply to angelfish.

I have read about that, and have seen it work in my friend’s mbuna tank. But I wonder if this is a humane way to treat fish.

 

[Back in the fold]

I have read about that, and have seen it work in my friend’s mbuna tank. But I wonder if this is a humane way to treat fish.

The thing I’ve wondered about with that practice is if you would have to do near daily large water changes . Some of those Mbuna aquariums are pretty crowded .

 

[Magnum Man]

I had a friend that had a 120 gallon full of mbuna, when I had fish before... he tore he tank completely down every week, at water change ( for hard scape he had it full of limestone slabs ) he claimed rearranging everything kept any fish from really claiming a turf... I would think that would keep everyone riled up, but maybe the battles were less severe, with no history to their turf???