Is This A Viable Stocking Idea For My New Tank?

[scouse_andy]

I posted on here a few weeks ago and had some very helpful advice about my CA/SA cichlid project. At that time I was thinking of adding in a plec and a shoal of Congo Tetra as well as a few cichlids. Over the last couple of weeks my thoughts have shifted to an all cichlid tank.

I've now got hold of my tank - it's a 240 litre (48" long x 16" wide x 20" high) and it is cycling at the moment. I've spent the last couple of weekends visiting lots of LFS, doing some research on the net and mulling things over.

These are my new plans:

4 Geophagus Surinamensis (1m3f)
2 Rotkeil sevs
2 Rainbow cichlids

All of these fish are readily available locally either at LFS or via breeders.

I intend to buy all the fish as youngsters and enjoy seeing them grow up in the tank and whilst I realise that there are no absolute hard and fast rules to keeping cichlids and individual behaviour may alter my plans, I intend to keep them together for a good number of years.

Obviously if I got some spawning then I may have to look at moving some fish on but how does it seem as a plan? I've tried to ensure that they are all of a similar temperament from what I have read.

My biggest concern are the eartheaters. I have read that they can potentially get close to 12" but 9" to 10" is more likely, I also know that they are slow growers. Would you think that wanting to keep four of these in a tank like this is 'pushing it slightly' or are they really far too big in the long run? I could upgrade to a wider 4ft tank (48x20ish footprint) a year or 2 down the line if this would help but there simply isn't the space in the house to go to a 5ft or beyond.

If there is a general concensus that the Geos are going to be too big for the tank before long then I would be happy to go with a similar number of Firemouths or Elliotti (but my heart is really set on the geophagus) .

Thanks in advance for all your useful input.

 

[hamfist]

IMO, all that stock is too much for a 240 litre.

4 x decent sized G.surinamensis plus one rainbow cichlid or rottie would pretty much fill up the tank.
I'm sitting here lookig at 3 x 5" surinamensis and a 3" sev in a 300 litre and I wouldn't want to put any more in it, knowing that they will all increase in size significantly.

Perhaps more realistic for a 240, is 3 x G.surinamensis (1M & 2F if possible to sex) plus one rottie OR one rainbow cichlid. You could fill out the space whilst they are young with a shoal of tetras if you wanted.

 

[karin]

Just for comparison look at my 60 gallon (about 240L I think) in my signature. All fish are still young but I still plan to put the rams in another tank. The stocking, minus the rams, was vetted by this particular section of the forum by the way. I was advised on one rotkeil in a 60 gallon by several folks here.

 

[scouse_andy]

Thanks for your help guys. I've had a look at the stock in your tank, Karin, and you have 5 cupid cichlids (considerably smaller than geos) but then a breeding pair of angels, a pair of rams, a rottie plus several other fish.

I'm not trying to be awkward but the level of stocking there doesn't seem to me to be much different to what I proposed.

If I were to go with the 4 geos and a rotkeil would I really be fully stocked or could I add another cichlid in? (festivum/blue acara/anything else?)

 

[minxfishy]

The Geophagus Surinamensis species vary, depending on what you actually end up with, most LFS sell them as G.Suri, but rarely do they turn out to be them. Whilst many of the species can and do reach 10", most stay relatively smaller at around 8". If you could go with only 3 (being a minimum number I would want to keep as they do prefer to be in groups), then a Rotkeil and a couple of rainbows would be fine IMO. Rainbow cichlids stay fairly small 3-4" a Rotkeil around 6" (some usually males can reach 8"). Then a group of tetras for dithers, then you should be fine. All of these are relatively peaceful fish too, so aggression levels would remain low.

Stay away from geophagus species labelled as gymnogeophagus, whilst being much smaller, most of these require a 'cool period' for a few months a year and as such wouldnt be suitable with the other fish you want.

 

[scouse_andy]

Thanks for the advice, I'd not really thought about dither fish much. I'm quite tempted to go with a shoal of columbian tetra as they move around quite a lot wheras congos are a little more placid.

I am planning to go with 4 geo surinamensis in the first instance (to increase my chances of getting 1m 2f) and then passing the extra one on. 1 rotkeil seems to be the concensus plus 1 or 2 rainbows and the shoal of columbians.

 

[Wills]

IMO I would not put the bigger species or "Surinimensis" type geos in a 65 gallon a trio of 8-10 inch fish plus some kind of the smaller Sevs in a 65 would be pretty crammed IMO and given how suceptable Surinimensis geos are to Hole in the Heand and/or Lateral Line I would probably go for either Geophagus Pindare or Geophagus sp.Tapajo Red Head in a 65g to be honest most people recommend a minimum of 90g for the Tapajos but I have seen examples of it working in 65/75g tanks as well.

Pindare are your best bet for long term success with this kind of geo, failing that I would perhaps look at Cupids like Karin.

I am currently growing out 4 Geophagus Winemilleri in a 240 with a true Heros Severus and a female Nicaraguan and even with them just at 3/4 inches and the sev at 6/7 inches and the nic 4/5 inches things are often a bit heated. My plan to keep these together for long term lives is a 6x18x24 135 gallon thats getting ordered (after a long delay) next week. But that said Geos - especially surinimensis types do take years to grow to any decent size usually just under 2 years to get to 6/7 inches when kept in fully perfect conditions ie big tank, lots of water changes, not over crowded, good food etc.

Wills

 

[scouse_andy]

Thanks for the advice, Wills. I've been reading up on geos quite a lot on here this evening and you certainly seem to know your stuff.

I've had a rethink of the stocking as the suris would certainly not be a long term option and I'm really after a group of fish to grow up together and enjoy the tank for years to come.

How does this sound?

1 Rotkeil
1 Rainbow Cichlid
4-5 Biotodoma cupido OR Thorichthys ellioti (especially keen on the cupids from what I've seen and read) - thanks for the tip, Karin
8-10 Columbian Tetra

I've found an MA not too far away which supposedly stocks ellioti and cupids so I'll go along some time this week and see what I think and what they're charging.

 

[Wills]

The cupids and ellioti are not really comparable fish to be honest. It would be the Ellioti or the rainbow really, I would do

1 Rotkeil
2 Rainbow Cichlids or 2 Ellioti
5 Biotodoma Cupido
10 Columbian Tetras

Then maybe some bottom dwellers or interesting mid water characins or none cichlid open water fish like headstanders or some Hemiodus some hoplo catfish or flagtail cats would fit in there nice actually in a trio

Wills

 

[scouse_andy]

This sounds good to me.

I'm liking the sound of

1 Rotkeil
2 Rainbow Cichlids
5 Biotodoma Cupido
10 Columbian Tetras

I'd then finish the tank off with some kind of bottom feeder - I do like the look of flagtail catfish in a trio. Don't know much about catfish other than L numbers. I could always go with a couple of bristlenoses or a group of pitbulls or I may try something a bit more fancy.

Does this sound ok to everyone?

 

[Timmy_Bee]

on the (badly founded) assumption your tank is a Juwel Rio 240, have you also considered replacing the internal filter with an external? its not as hard as you may think (search on here for topics on how to remove the internal) and it not only increases the size of you tank, but will help with the filtration which will be helpful when your fish are bigger.

Also - Wills - Where did you get a true Sev from? never seen them in my neck of the woods, but i would love one!

 

[Wills]

Stocking looks good to me I would still look to add in some catfish maybe or some kind of mid water larger non cichlid fish.

Timmy - I got my sev from a local breeder he was surplus to the breeding stock so gave me him though at the time I was told he was a she so I added an other female and they bred in a small tank and the male was to rough killed her But gorgeous fish

Wills

 

[scouse_andy]

on the (badly founded) assumption your tank is a Juwel Rio 240, have you also considered replacing the internal filter with an external?

It's a Rena rather than a Juwel, I've been there done that with the internal filter boxes on the Rios, as you say it's much better all round with an external, I've got a Tetratec Ex1200 on the way to replace the current ailing external I got with the tank.

Wills - I'm thinking flagtail cats - don't know much about them is 3 enough of a group?

As for midwater swimmers - I'll have a shoal of columbians in there and don't want an overly busy looking tank if that makes sense, if I could cope with the bioload and really wanted to add something else I may choose to go with a really large shoal of columbians (15-20?) as they colour up beautifully and they should keep the tank moving without making it look too busy if you know what I mean. I'd rather have a smaller number of species in larger quantities rather than load of different species in there.

As far as cupids go - what would be a fair price?

 

[Wills]

A trio of flagtails would work great as ever more is better and you could probably handle the fourth one in there. But 3 would work

I agree totally on keeping species to a minimum to let numbers get as high as possible as well I just perhaps like a few different levels of the river sytem in my tank

With cupids I have seen them for anywhere between £3 and £15 each though the ones at £15 were near adults, recently I think that an average price would be about £8-£10 each. But dont forget you can also get their relative Biotodoma Wavereni (spelling) which are very similar if not a bit nicer IMO which are often found a little cheaper though it depends on the shop really lol

Wills

 

[njstockley]

looks like a really good stock list...wills gave me some similarly good advice, and with the mix youve gone for you will get a nice mix of colour size, and activity.

i agree on the catfish idea - ive been looking for some more active (and imo attractive) catfish than some of the plecs (the couple i have owned have been very shy), and have been considering flagtails hoplos and pictus. seen an ad for 4 flagtails for £15 which may be a decisive factor!

think im leaning towards colombian tetra too - in a big shoal they do look great, and not as bulky as the congos. bleeding hearts in a big shoal can look great too i always think, but seems they are more inclined towards the bottom/middle of the tank (someone may correct me on this) and presume you are looking for mid/top swimmers.

keep us posted with pics as you stock it!