Introduction post and new covid quarantine project. Could use some advice on some specific items.

[clambert122]

Howdy all.

So Im from Chicago, and just getting back into the hobby after a very long hiatus. Ooooh. About 20 years since my last tank.

Back in the day, I had a straight 100GP fresh water tank with just fake plants and gravel and so forth. Nothing fancy. Just easy to take care of fish. Guppies and Tetras and the like. It was built into the living room wall and got sold as part of the house. I had a couple smaller 20-30 gallon tanks with some angels and small piranhas in them.

FFW to today, and I have inherited a beautiful 150 gallon reef tank. A friend of mine had a absolutely beautiful reef tank. Tons of legally obtained illegal corals. ( His was one of the tanks in the area that would get them from a shop after Customs would call to take in case they caught someone smuggling fish and corals at the airport. )

Anyhow. He went on vacation and his calcium doser went full on Charles Manson I guess and killed everything. He was so disgusted that he gave me the entire setup, as long as I was willing to get it out of his house. Very nice gift I would say.

So, In all, I inherited,

150 Gallon tank.
RA-800 Teko chiller,
30 gallon sump.
Protein skimmer. I know its useless in a freshwater tank other than an expensive airstone which is how I am using it. I kind of like that the oxygenation takes place down in my sump instead of in the tank. No distracting bubbles.
750GPH protein skimmer pump / oxygenation unit.
LED night nights
Metal Halide lights, which I have since replaced with LED.
750GPH main pump ( takes water from the sump->chiller-> tank )
2 strong powerheads for surface agitation. not sure of the gph, but they move a LOT of water.
250W heater ( housed in the sump )
I purchased a temperature control system to monitor temp, and swap between heater and chiller as needed.
I WANT to purchase an auto water change system that can use reservoirs. I looked at Smart AWC touch, but its apparently discontinued. So I could use an alternative suggestion if possible?


For now my plans are to set this up as a Fresh water tank, as I don't really want to put the investment into a Salt water tank for now. I will eventually convert it back into salt once I have purchased some of the more expensive automation stuff over time like an Apeks / various components.

So, instead I am going with a live planted fresh water angel tank. I figure this tank is perfect for angels since its nice and tall, as they seem to like taller tanks.

What I am hoping to find a way to achieve is harmony and balance as much as I can between my bacteria, algea prod / eaters / plant care takers / you get the idea. and to automate the rest. AKA, Tank changes.

Having never really done a live plant tank before, I was hoping someone could point me at some reliable reading materials online?

Specifically, how do I calculate roughly speaking, as I know its not exact science, the number of plants I can have without causing lots of tank issues with water imbalance?

For now, I threw a couple cheapo hardy plants in there, and a couple goldfish / canary in the coalmines to start generating bio / ammonium to get the nitrogen cycle started. I leave town for a few weeks in 2 weeks, and by the time i get back, the tank should be good and cycled. I figure even if the goldfish die, its just more bio. The goldfish that survive will be rehoused to my friends daughters goldfish tank. I think they will all be fine though.

And my other question is, as posted above. whats a good auto water change system these days that can use a reservoir? I cant hook it up to the water system where the tank is, but I can hide a couple of water sources.

And good guidelines/reading material to setting up the most balanced eco system that I can would be appreciated since I have never really tried to setup a tank this way.


That about sums up my current tank / project. Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated, as its been a long time since I setup a tank, and never one this big. Technology has changed a lot, and I have never used a sump system, although I already see it as superior to other systems with the control it gives you.


Glad to be here and Thanks for taking the time to read this post / whatever advice you may deem to share with me.

 

[clambert122]

 

[Fish4dawin]

Ok, so what you said at the top with you 20 and 30 gallon tnaks is something you shouldn't do. Angels need a 55 gallon minimum and piranhas I believe 100 gallons. So just don't do that again as it's not fair on the fish and don't have adequate room (just friendly critique). As for the plant situation, you can pretty much go with quite a few, those being Java fern, anubias. You can also attach Java fern to driftwood if you want to. Considering this tank is a 150 gallon, you can fit a decent amount of angels in there (5-6) however if one pair ends up spawning you need to be quick to act as they will vigorously chase away any fish that comes near sometime killing other angels. So you could do 1 and not worry about the spawning issue or could try to raise 5-6 juveniles and hope they get along. I can't suggest tank mates as for now as we need to know your GH and pH (GH standing for general hardness). My GH is 290 so I'm very restricted to the fish I can keep but if your is around 160 there is a large variety of fish you can choose.

 

[clambert122]

Ok, so what you said at the top with you 20 and 30 gallon tnaks is something you shouldn't do. Angels need a 55 gallon minimum and piranhas I believe 100 gallons. So just don't do that again as it's not fair on the fish and don't have adequate room (just friendly critique). As for the plant situation, you can pretty much go with quite a few, those being Java fern, anubias. You can also attach Java fern to driftwood if you want to. Considering this tank is a 150 gallon, you can fit a decent amount of angels in there (5-6) however if one pair ends up spawning you need to be quick to act as they will vigorously chase away any fish that comes near sometime killing other angels. So you could do 1 and not worry about the spawning issue or could try to raise 5-6 juveniles and hope they get along. I can't suggest tank mates as for now as we need to know your GH and pH (GH standing for general hardness). My GH is 290 so I'm very restricted to the fish I can keep but if your is around 160 there is a large variety of fish you can choose.

Thanks.

Consider me properly chastised, but I was a kid, and it was over 20 years ago, so give me a small break on that eh? We all did some dumb things when we were kids.

I was considering about 4-5 angels ya. Chicago water isnt very "hard" but it does have a bit of chlorine in it which is pretty easy to lower thankfully.
I am expecting my PH to come up at about 6.8 or so when the tank settles. But I expect that it should be pretty ideal water conditions for companions.

How are you calculating the GH number though? Or do you have a general water test kit for that assume?

 

[Fish4dawin]

Thanks.

Consider me properly chastised, but I was a kid, and it was over 20 years ago, so give me a small break on that eh? We all did some dumb things when we were kids.

Sorry about that one. I did think in my head that that might've been a while ago. Sorry for that

Thanks.

Consider me properly chastised, but I was a kid, and it was over 20 years ago, so give me a small break on that eh? We all did some dumb things when we were kids.

I was considering about 4-5 angels ya. Chicago water isnt very "hard" but it does have a bit of chlorine in it which is pretty easy to lower thankfully.
I am expecting my PH to come up at about 6.8 or so when the tank settles. But I expect that it should be pretty ideal water conditions for companions.

How are you calculating the GH number though? Or do you have a general water test kit for that assume?

Your GH will come from your water company, just simply put your address or around where you live and it should just come up with your GH. @essjay is very good at navigating GH so should be able to help a bit better.

 

[DAnCSF]

Congrats you certainly scored....now you can exercise your plastic and make the banks happy LOL...so many concerns and so much time...you'll get lots advice and help from the members here...my only concrete advice is take your time...to create a "perfect balance", bacteria have there own time lines but you can certainly hasten the N cycle plenty of products/methods to do that. Take care and would luv to see and hear about your progress...

 

[mcordelia]

Hi ! welcome back to the hobby! Lots of folks with stories like yours on here, mine included! I was out of the hobby for 15ish years, and you guessed it, covid was a good excuse to get back

I believe @ITViking is also a returner after a long hiatus. and I think we could fit @Naterjm into that group too

so what I've discovered is new since way back when is that GH/hardness is a big thing nowadays. Before, it just used to be pH and temp and as long as your fish matched those you were good to go. Now it's all about hardness, with pH being second fiddle to your GH and KH values. You can get your average readings for your locale from your "annual water report" for your city, or you can pick up the API GH/KH test kit. Read the instructions on it since the fact that one drop = 1 degree sometimes throws people off.

Also, looks like you're already in the thick of it but generally people do fishless cycles nowadays. Buy some pure ammonia, toss it in the tank until you read 3ppm, and walk away. The age-old method of cycling with plants instead of ammonia is still alive and well, on that topic (and touching on one of your questions), I've seen that ~30% of the tank should be planted for the plants to take up enough ammonia to do a silent cycle, but I have yet to figure out if it's 30% of surface area or volume, and it's probably not even useful to try and pin down since different plants take up varying amounts of ammonia/nitrites etc. New to me was also the "walstad approach" for tanks, it's probably not going to be what you're looking for but will give you guidance to your questions on finding that balance between bacteria/plants/bad stuff.

that 150g looks fantastic, and I agree, probably exactly the right aspect ratio for angels! Should be an awesome tank! Sucks about your friend though, what a huge bummer. That's always the downside of aquariums, I always think that it's crazy that an aquarium is basically on life support 24/7 since if you get a power outage and don't have any kind of battery backup, its a matter of hours-days until everything goes out of whack....

I know nothing about the auto water changer thing, so no pointers on that.

I do want to point you in one additional direction, one of the members here @AbbeysDad has a website with really good articles he's written and/or compiled that I think will help you fill out your pool of questions! https://mjvaquatics.com/blog2/

best of luck! keep us updated and looking forward to interesting conversations as you ask your questions!

 

[Essjay]

For now, I threw a couple cheapo hardy plants in there, and a couple goldfish / canary in the coalmines to start generating bio / ammonium to get the nitrogen cycle started.

The other thing that has changed in the last 20 years is that we don't really approve of fish-in cycling any more. Fishless cycling is what's recommended these days. You can use bottled bacteria or mature media from another tank to help speed it up.
As you intend to move the goldfish anyway, the kindest thing to do is move them now, ask your friend's daughter for some of their filter media (give them some new in return), buy a bottle of ammonia and follow this method.

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

Or, as you intend to use live plants - move the goldfish, plant the tank and take a photo. When you get back from your trip compare the plants to the photo and if they've grown a lot, get fish. This is called a silent cycle and uses plants rather than bacteria to remove the ammonia made by the fish - and plants don't turn it into nitrite or nitrate.

 

[mcordelia]

@essjay on this topic - my crypt is melting and I think one of my tiger lily bulbs died - if I leave the "dead stuff" in the tank, will that also promote some BB to grow in addition to the silent cycle that I'm trying for, or am I just going to come back to a green or black tank?

 

[Essjay]

Decomposing plants will generate ammonia and bits will get into the filter. That should help generate BB - though with a silent cycle only a few BB grow slowly in the background as the plants do all the work.

If it was my tank, I'd remove the dead leaves and bulbs - if they're anything like terrestrial bulbs you'll end up with a slimy mess.

 

[clambert122]

Sorry about that one. I did think in my head that that might've been a while ago. Sorry for that


Your GH will come from your water company, just simply put your address or around where you live and it should just come up with your GH. @essjay is very good at navigating GH so should be able to help a bit better.

Its cool. I used to use them as a talking point to try and get girls back to my room back in the day. Believe it or not, it worked. Sometimes. I felt "cool" having a piranha. And they always liked the "pretty angels!"
As I said, I was young and dumb.

So poking around some, it looks like I have about a 180 range. Which seems okay-ish? Ya. When I was a kid, it was all about PH, Ammonia, and tank temp. I can take it in to the local shop for a test.

https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/water/ConsumerConfidenceReports/ChicagoWaterQuality2019.pdf

 

[Fish4dawin]

Its cool. I used to use them as a talking point to try and get girls back to my room back in the day. Believe it or not, it worked. Sometimes. I felt "cool" having a piranha. And they always liked the "pretty angels!"
As I said, I was young and dumb.

So poking around some, it looks like I have about a 180 range. Which seems okay-ish? Ya. When I was a kid, it was all about PH, Ammonia, and tank temp. I can take it in to the local shop for a test.

https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/water/ConsumerConfidenceReports/ChicagoWaterQuality2019.pdf

180 will be fine for a wide range of fish

 

[clambert122]

Hi ! welcome back to the hobby! Lots of folks with stories like yours on here, mine included! I was out of the hobby for 15ish years, and you guessed it, covid was a good excuse to get back

I believe @ITViking is also a returner after a long hiatus. and I think we could fit @Naterjm into that group too

so what I've discovered is new since way back when is that GH/hardness is a big thing nowadays. Before, it just used to be pH and temp and as long as your fish matched those you were good to go. Now it's all about hardness, with pH being second fiddle to your GH and KH values. You can get your average readings for your locale from your "annual water report" for your city, or you can pick up the API GH/KH test kit. Read the instructions on it since the fact that one drop = 1 degree sometimes throws people off.

Also, looks like you're already in the thick of it but generally people do fishless cycles nowadays. Buy some pure ammonia, toss it in the tank until you read 3ppm, and walk away. The age-old method of cycling with plants instead of ammonia is still alive and well, on that topic (and touching on one of your questions), I've seen that ~30% of the tank should be planted for the plants to take up enough ammonia to do a silent cycle, but I have yet to figure out if it's 30% of surface area or volume, and it's probably not even useful to try and pin down since different plants take up varying amounts of ammonia/nitrites etc. New to me was also the "walstad approach" for tanks, it's probably not going to be what you're looking for but will give you guidance to your questions on finding that balance between bacteria/plants/bad stuff.

that 150g looks fantastic, and I agree, probably exactly the right aspect ratio for angels! Should be an awesome tank! Sucks about your friend though, what a huge bummer. That's always the downside of aquariums, I always think that it's crazy that an aquarium is basically on life support 24/7 since if you get a power outage and don't have any kind of battery backup, its a matter of hours-days until everything goes out of whack....

I know nothing about the auto water changer thing, so no pointers on that.

I do want to point you in one additional direction, one of the members here @AbbeysDad has a website with really good articles he's written and/or compiled that I think will help you fill out your pool of questions! https://mjvaquatics.com/blog2/

best of luck! keep us updated and looking forward to interesting conversations as you ask your questions!

Ya. I added a little bit of Ammonium. But it was also just to see if I had the water cleaned out enough.

This had been a big reef tank before I received it, and then sat in storage for 8 years after it all died. It was crusted over in calcium, salt, and grime. I spent a few weeks cleaning it out with vinegar water, and a LOT of elbow grease. I tested for everything I could, but at the end of the day, i figured it was possible there could be other contaminants in the water just from storage and grime, and general whateverness.

So I choose to add just a small bit of bio. Thats all of about 6 dollars in plants, so, an easy investment. And the 4 goldfish came from a friends feeder tank, so I saved them from being eaten anyways.

 

[ITViking]

Welcome back, & congrats! I'm new back after 15 years myself. Lots new to learn.

Nice tank. I've always wondered... how do people aqua scape or even clean such huge tanks? I know in really big ones people can right inside and do the work, but man... I couldn't imagine maintaining a tank five times my current one.

I did an old school fish-in cycle myself. IMO, If it's done with careful observation it doesn't need to be 'cruel'. But at the same time I'm happy to see that the hobby has trended toward a method that's better for the fish. I'll have to try fishless with my next tank.

 

[clambert122]

Welcome back, & congrats! I'm new back after 15 years myself. Lots new to learn.

Nice tank. I've always wondered... how do people aqua scape or even clean such huge tanks? I know in really big ones people can right inside and do the work, but man... I couldn't imagine maintaining a tank five times my current one.

I did an old school fish-in cycle myself. IMO, If it's done with careful observation it doesn't need to be 'cruel'. But at the same time I'm happy to see that the hobby has trended toward a method that's better for the fish. I'll have to try fishless with my next tank.

Thanks!

I actually have dove inside fish tanks to clean them. The Shedd Aquarium here in Chicago pre covid used to allow scuba divers of a certain level/experience to dive in the main reef habitat to help clean. It was actually really really very cool. I usually make a few thousand bucks during the summer cleaning peoples pools, the underside of their boats, and cell phone retrieval from Lake MI.

In this case, I want to create a tank that for the most part, outside of regular water changes which I want to automate, cleans its self. Ammonium high? add more bacteria balls. algae a bit high? add some algae eaters. etc etc.

As for the fish. They were going to be eaten anyways. My buddy keeps a breeder tank full of GF to feed to his Oscars. So, as long as these guys can make it ( and I think they will ) then they get to live their life out in a 13 year olds gold fish tank, rather than ripped fin to fin apart as a snack.