Inbreds...

[PRW1988]

Just sitting here in my business class thinking about my possible future in the aquarium retail industry and I came up with an idea. For some species of fish (the easier ones to breed, such as some danios, bettas, guppies, etc.) I could breed them myself in the store. But then another thought came into mind. I'd be inbreeding the fish on a massive scale.

Now I'm starting to think about it and it occurs to me that most fish would be inbreeds would they not? I mean surely it's not profitable enough to bring in new fish to breed when breeding the ones you already have is easy enough. Am I right in my thoughts? Are most fish in the aquarium hobby inbreds?

 

[mcgrimes]

I love this idea! I myself would love to breed and sell fish. It could be quite expensive to start off however, and i would imagine it would be difficult and hard work to actually breed the fish! After all their must be a good reason or so many fish shops wouldnt import from america or china (Im in the UK)
Regarding the inbred question, apparently neon tetras used to be much hardier but due to frequent in breeding this is what has caused them to become much more sensitive. If i was doing this, id breed fish that have come from various places.
In breeding can never be a good thing and i think you should limit it as far as you can!

 

[shroob]

I don't think it would be worth your time/proffitable to breed fish 'in store' purely for economic gains. Theres a reason why so many fish are imported from the far east/czech republic and thats because its far cheaper. Neons cost the LFS pennies each, to breed the 100's or so needed weekly as neons are big sellers would require more effort than its worth. Not alot of people get rich breeding fish.

I think the only way you could make money (limited at that) is by breeding rarer fish, and even then when you factor in the cost of food/maintinance/equipment/time the proffit margins will be slim. An example could be rays, they fetch a high price but take a long time to get to sexual maturity, produce few offspring and the cost of looking after them means it will be a while before you break even. Another option is breeding F0 fish, the demand for F1/F2's will be higher meaning they can fetch a better price. Probably better to breed fish because you like them and want to achieve something extra then sell the fry as a 'bonus'.

On the topic of inbreeding it can weaken the fish and produce deformities, always good to get some 'new blood' in. Though I know one experienced keeper of shrimp says inbreeding is over emphasised, and that they havn't noticed anything wrong with the shrimp he has kept together for many many generations, he says people think because its wrong for humans its wrong for shrimp. How true this is I don't know, and don't know if it applies to fish, but its true that fish such as neons/guppies arn't as hardy as they used to be.

 

[Colin_T]

It costs less to buy fish from Asia where labour is cheap, than it does to grow them in most western societies.
eg: in northern Australia it is hot and dry for most of the year and we have to pay for water and real labour costs ($15-20 per hour). In the southern half of Australia it is cold in winter and we have to pay for heating as well. Compare this to tropical Asia where most aquarium fishes are bred and they have free heat, plenty of water (usually free) and they can pay a kid 50cents a day to work on the farm. There is no way you can compete with that.

Most fish in the shops are related to each other. Any tank of wagtail platies would come from the same supplier in Asia and if you buy a pr from the tank, chances are you have bought a brother and sister.

 

[Athena]

Hmm... I've never thought about this before! Ok, so in the wild when fish move around together in a shoal, don't they just pair off and mate with a fish from that shoal (probably a sibling fish) and produce fry that all travel together in a shoal and so on? Or do fish from one shoal only mate with fish from another shoal?

Excuse my ignorance here folks LOL Just trying to get to grips with all of this!

Athena

 

[Colin_T]

Most fish that live in groups will often have orgies (can I say that here). Basically when a pr start breeding the hormones they release will often trigger other fish in the group to also start breeding. Within minutes every fish in the group will be going for it. The amount of hormone released by this activity will often stimulate other fishes in the area to start breeding as well.

 

[PRW1988]

So am I right in my thoughts then. Most fish in captivity are indeed inbreeds?

 

[fish48]

Inbreeding is not to much of a problem if you start of with good quality fish.
any deformed fish must be removed as soon as possible. only breed with your best fish

 

[Colin_T]

So am I right in my thoughts then. Most fish in captivity are indeed inbreeds?

yes and no.
most fancy or unusually coloured fish, or fish with long fancy fins, (ie: guppies, platies, angelfish) are inbred so they can keep the particular strain. If they start adding new bloodlines to a wagtail platy they can mess up the offspring and although you get healthier fry, the fry won't be the same as the parents, (the fry won't be wagtails).
The same with long fin angelfish. If you add a new bloodline to them and it isn't a long fin, you will end up with lots of short fin angels and that means you don't get as much per fish when you sell them.

So yes many aquarium fish are inbred, however many others fishes are not. Good fish breeders will always try to use unrelated bloodlines, or colony breed things to provide as much genetic variation. But it also depends on the breeder. Some don't care about mutant deformed fish and others will do whatever they can to prevent them from occurring (by adding new blood whenever they can).

 

[saz326]

Dont forget also peeps that when us well meaning folk go to our LFS and pick up a pair of fishies ( a male and a female) we are more than likely getting brother and sister - and hoping they will breed.

When a shop orders fish in they more likely than not be all from the same batch. i.e. a bulk buy of brothers and sisters.

To this end - I bought a male from one place, and a female from another place about a week later...

 

[WillyRBeek]

The issue of inbreeding is one that occurred to me in regards to my outside pond with goldfish in it last summer.

My thoughts on the issue though is that it really shouldn't be that much of a problem. Inbreeding in animals, like in humans, doesn't guarantee there will be physical deformities, it just increases the chances. When it comes to animals such as fish though, nature will usually take it's course. When fish breed they usually lay hundreds of eggs(Or hatch live fry, depending on the type of fish), and usually only a small percentage of those end up making it past the egg/fry stage. Any fish with physical deformities that would make them slower, weaker, or generally more susceptible to predators, will almost always die off before they reach adulthood. It's called "Survival Of The Fittest".

It definately won't hurt to add some fresh gene's to the gene pool every once and awhile though. The fish in my pond had been there for probably 6 or 7 years, and had spawned many generations, but I added a few new ones from the LFS, just to shake things up a little...Unfortunately though this didn't end up making a difference, as I was unaware of what my mother started doing in the summer. A new family with small children moved in down the road, and their kids would be over here every couple of days, and always wanting to see the fish get fed. So my mother would end up going out there and feeding the fish every couple of days, and in the end, killed them all...

Once I discovered what had happened, I went to LFS to replenish the pond, and gave her strict orders to never, ever feed the fish in the pond under any circumstance without checking with me first, lol.

 

[loachman]

If you want to make money breeding fish, you need to breed something unique. Run of the mill fish just will not be profitable.

For example, there is a guy who is breeding INSANELY rare clownfish in Australia. He is the only one in the world. He stands to earn a lot. But he also put a ton of effort and money into it. There is a thread floating around another forum regarding his "adventures"

 

[WillyRBeek]

If you want to make money breeding fish, you need to breed something unique. Run of the mill fish just will not be profitable.

For example, there is a guy who is breeding INSANELY rare clownfish in Australia. He is the only one in the world. He stands to earn a lot. But he also put a ton of effort and money into it. There is a thread floating around another forum regarding his "adventures"

Breeding BN Plec's is something i've put some thought into. They sell them for a decent price at the LFS($25), and from what I hear, they're very easy to breed.

 

[loachman]

If you want to make money breeding fish, you need to breed something unique. Run of the mill fish just will not be profitable.

For example, there is a guy who is breeding INSANELY rare clownfish in Australia. He is the only one in the world. He stands to earn a lot. But he also put a ton of effort and money into it. There is a thread floating around another forum regarding his "adventures"

Breeding BN Plec's is something i've put some thought into. They sell them for a decent price at the LFS($25), and from what I hear, they're very easy to breed.

Mine sells them for $6 in the US. Unless they are full adults, they're overcharging. Although, I don't know what your local fish "economy" is like in Nova Scotia.

 

[AdAndrews]

would be nice but im sure after all the costs its cheaper to just buy fish off your supplier