I'm Loosing The Battle

[Waterloo Kid]

Well, I've been fighting BGA for ever. It's always been in the tank to varying degrees. Sometimes, for reasons I can't fathom, it subsides. Unfortunately it's getting to the point where i don't know what to do next.

OK, the tank has a pressurised CO2 system (KH 4, pH 6.8-6.7) giving me a CO2 level of approx 20-25ppm. The CO2 comes on at the same time as 100W of T5 lighting which is preceeded by 80W of T8 lighting (both T5 and T8 are one tube full spectrum, one tube 'Plant-Pro type spectrum) which comes on 15 minutes before the T5s. Lights are on for 10 hours a day.
My tank is heavily planted. In fact I've just chucked a load of hydrophila defformis in as a quick grower. The tank fizzes like a pop bottle. Even my gloosstigma is growing albeit at a slowish rate. my amazon swords have suddenly put out huge leaves reaching almost 24 inches high. Things were going well for a while. I was dosing NO3 every other day (10ppm per dose) and JBL Ferropol on alternate days. The BGA was still there, only in manageable quantities.
Due to a small matter of 9 month old twins I was unable to undertake a water change for 3 weeks. In that time the tank fell into a right state. The BGA was so thick it looked furry. I lost a good proportion of the glosso due to smothering. The large leaves of the amazon sword developed transparent areas (a deficiency of some sort obviously).

I have now reverted to my weekly water change schedule (approx 40% a week). I am currently out of Ferropol and have just ordered 500ml of Seachem Flourish. The BGA can recover the small area of substrate I have left showing (about 12 inches by 6 inches) in a single day. It's smothering the glosso still. The plants are still pearling like crazy and the deficiencies are not manifesting themselves any more.

I did think it might be something to do with my fish load (ammonia) so 5 days ago I sold off my 5 fully grown angelfish. As you can see in my sig. I don't have many fish at all! it hasn't made the slightest difference.

My question is simple. Why do i still have major algae issues and what can I do about it?

WK

 

[George Farmer]

Water filtration are you running? Is there decent all-round circulation? BGA loves stagnant water.

How old is the substrate? Do you keep if fresh by fluffing up/vacuuming occasionally? BGA loves stale, oxygen depleted substrates. Often this is where the BGA will start, especially if there's natural light hitting the front glass.

Fluff up, vacuum your substrate as best you can.
Do 75% water change vacuuming as much BGA as possible.
Clean filter.
Total black out for 3 days, no peeking. Fish, plants will be fine.
50% water change, siphon up any dead BGA, waste etc.
Clean filter.

I've had BGA a couple times. I put it down to lack of substrate maintenance and poor filtration as well as low NO3. With decent growth go for 10ppm 3x week with 50% weekly water change (EI).

 

[jkc]

If blacking out the tank in this way would it be advisable to turn the CO2 off completely, otherwise there may be a build up of CO2 in the tank and the fish begin to suffer. If no peeking at the tank your not gonna know if things are ok!?

I have assumed that this tank isnt being run by a PH controller & using only a solenoid.

 

[George Farmer]

Good point. CO2 off during blackout. I'm thinking Waterloo Kid may know that but worth reiterating for other members. Thanks jkc!

 

[jkc]

No Probs mate

 

[lljdma06]

I would also suggest increasing your filtration output in the future, especially since you are keeping large cichlids and a heavy bioload. As George indicated, BGA loves stagnant water and stale substrates. It is possible to maintain good levels of CO2 without compromising on current. If the tank is filled high enough, you can produce a good current without agitating the surface too much, which would compromise gas exchange for your CO2. I run two powerful HOB filters in my 20g, and one very strong one in my 36g, and I also have high bioloads. In addition, try upping your CO2 to around 30ppm. It won't harm the fish, especially if you have increased filtration. Finally, keep up with your weekly maintenance regimen. This is extremely important with higher light tanks. George's recommendation for EI is excellent and a fantastic option for higher light plants. Your "small matter" is a wonderful distraction. Congratulations.

I personally don't like blackouts (my plants tend to hate me afterwards and sulk, which I don't like seeing), and I eliminated a past BGA problem without resorting to one (with George's help actually), and my tank was pretty much covered like yours was. It took a little longer, 2-3weeks, but diligence paid off. I'm not saying that a blackout isn't a good idea. It certainly is a quick fix, but BGA can be resolved without one as well, just takes longer. I'm pretty patient. I have heard of people also using Antibiotics since BGA is technically a species of bacteria, but I have never used it. I do find that formalin dosed at 1/2 strength for a few days works extremely well, if you ever get greenwater, and I have no idea why it works, just does, at least for me.

I wish you luck with your BGA problem.

llj

 

[Waterloo Kid]

Thanks for the replies. I'd not heard about the stale substrate thing. I vacuum the gravel every water change. Well, what i can reach anyway. Pretty much the entire back half of the tank is thickly planted and a fifth is under bog wood (which has disappeared under java moss).
The filtration is only the standard Juwel 'jumbo' internal so isn't great. Ironically the only place that has never had BGA is at the very front on the opposite side of the tank to the filter. The current here is virtually zero (flake food will fall straight down) due to the bog wood and plants blocking the flow. It also gets direct sunlight this time of year for approximately half an hour a day. not what I'd expect. Conversly I have BGA build up on the CO2 diffuser which is placed right next to the filter outlet!

The CO2 is linked to my lighting so it'll be off with the lights. I have done 3 day blackouts before to decent effect. I was hoping for something a little longer term. I will do it though. Should remove the majority of the stuff and give the upper hand back to the plants which is, after all, the way to go.

WK

 

[lljdma06]

To get those hard to vacumn spots, I find that a mini gravel vac does wonders. The water flow is less and it can't pick-up huge pieces, but it certainly gets the mulm that's been building up and you'll have a better time getting into those hard-to-reach spots in the back. I tear into my background plants all the time. You just put them back in place.

That filter does sound aweful. I'm not familiar with the Jewel model tanks (from the US), is there anyway to upgrade with either a stronger internal or get a HOB (hang on the Back) filter? This is the reason, I tend to not purchase those all-inclusive tanks (Eclipse systems in the US). I make too many modifications.

llj

 

[Halfsleeve]

I too have a Juwel tank and again suffered a BGA outbreak in the end I had to almost strip the tank down and start again, my setup is as follows TetraPlant Complete Substrate on the bottom with a layer of sand ontop, the standard Juwel Trigon 190 filter system, pressurised Co2, Lighting via an ibar 2*24w T5's.I also added a internal fluval 4 as I keep discus they can be a messy fish. To be honest im starting to see signs of BGA forming again it really is heart breaking and can kill a tanks looks in a heart beat. I change 25ltrs a week using RO water in know it should be a little more but I don't think it will make a difference, my bogwood is showing signs of forming BGA and my Co2 ladder is thickening nicely with the stuff. If this is all that grows then I can live with it, it's when it forms over everything it really gets you down.

 

[russellbrooke]

Just to add my ten pence worth. I've also had bga problems in the past. I've got a juwel260 vision. The only way i eventually got rid was by doing a 3 day blackout (as suggested by George) and i started to use rowa phos to bring the phosphate levels down. I personnally don't use ei method and use greenline fert bags. I also bought a uv which has made the water crystal clear. This is an expensive option though as you'll need a power head or an external filter to pump the water through it.

Hope this helps.

Russ

 

[Halfsleeve]

I have added rowaphos also, is it true it take 4 weeks to actually start working...

 

[George Farmer]

I have added rowaphos also, is it true it take 4 weeks to actually start working...

RowaPhos should start adsorbing PO4 immediately. I'm not sure on its usefullness for treating BGA though.

 

[russellbrooke]

I think it starts to work straight away. The doco that comes with rowaphos says when using for the first time, you may need more than stated does as there may be quite a bit of phosphate in the substrate.

b.t.w, when you say you

I change 25ltrs a week using RO water

do you use just RO? I use tap water and RO to bring down my gh/kh.

 

[George Farmer]

.....you may need more than stated does as there may be quite a bit of phosphate in the substrate.

I'm surprised the instructions say this.

PO4 in the substrate generally stays there (it's a valuable nutrient for the plant roots and is why many root tabs etc. contain PO4).

If we disturb the substrate i.e. through vacuuming, uprooting plants etc. then large water changes are recommended straight after because the floating organic matter etc. may increase likelyhood of algae.

 

[Themuleous]

I know this is totally non-EI and I never normally advocate using chemicals, etc, but I have used antibiotics in the past and they worked very very well. The word to look out for is Erythromycin as that's the 'active' ingredient, the common trade name is Maracyn and can be purchased here. Those in the UK have to import it as you cant get such medicines without a prescription in the UK.

I take no responsibility for it getting nabbed by customs!

Watch your filter while using it as it could kill the beneficial bacteria (not in my experience but just so you know) and its really only a last resort, try the blackout first.

Sam