Ignorant Pleco Sales Or Nieve Buyers?plecos A No No For Newbies?

[plecostomus-mad]

i want to open a nice big can of fat blood worms and start a debate about plecos.

id like to hear everyones opinion whether you keep plecos, want plecos or as the case maybe, not..

my view on the topic is sparked by countless posts about large plecos, what they are, how big they get etc etc.

i currently have 4 plecos, a golden nugget , a female bristlenose and 2 clown plecos. they live in a 4ft long 50ukg tank.......plenty of space i did some research before buying them and they all get along fine and £80 well spent.

now my problem is people buying plecos and not knowing anything about them, not knowing there adult size and there needs. i know most lfs's out there are not helping by selling what they can to anyone but still, the buyer should do some freeking research first!!! its just plain ignorance on there part!!!

 

[erk628]

If LFS's would give there customers the proper advise there wouldn't be nearly as many problems. Most people first getting into the hobby go to there LFS think they can trust these people and thinking the know what there talking about. Some people probaly think of them like they would a police officer a teacher or any other professional there suppose to know there job. The sad thing about it is the majority don't know anything.

 

[rebrn]

I don't have plec's not because I don't like them, but because the only thing I know about them is that they will only fit in one of my tanks and even that is debatable (5 USG, 12 USG and 55USG). Also, as my snails seem to be doing a great job with my algae I don't really need one. Now that being said, I have see quite a few tanks recently, around 5 of them with plecs and truth be told only one of them had any business owning one. The one tank I saw was fine, it was a 6 foot tank with 2 plecs (no idea what kind) so I think he should be ok. The second tank was debatable, he had one (again don't know what type) in a 55 USG (4 foot) tank, so you would think one in a 4ft tank would be ok, but seeing as he had absolutely no clue what type it was I am thinking this could be problematic down the line (currently the plec is around 4 inches). Now the other 3 tanks ranged in size from 10 USG to 29USG which is absolutely no good. The one in the 10 USG tank was roughly 6 inches long and while I was over at her house it died and she had the nerve to wonder why!

So in a nut shell, yes I do think people should be asked a few question before buying a plec, but I think that should be the case for any fish. I mean go to just about any animal shelter, pet store, breeder, or heck even puppy/kitten mills and you are required to fill out a questionnaire and some even require a visit to your home before letting you take home a puppy or a kitten, so why should the same not be for fish, after all they are living creatures too.

 

[plecostomus-mad]

erk i agree fully. the police officer terminology is spot on

 

[plecostomus-mad]

So in a nut shell, yes I do think people should be asked a few question before buying a plec, but I think that should be the case for any fish. I mean go to just about any animal shelter, pet store, breeder, or heck even puppy/kitten mills and you are required to fill out a questionnaire and some even require a visit to your home before letting you take home a puppy or a kitten, so why should the same not be for fish, after all they are living creatures too.

yup and yup, fish should be treated the same as any other living animal.maybe proof or home visits by qualified personal should be mandatory for certain fish and i also think my rant should reflect other fish too.

 

[rebrn]

totally agree erk, I am a nurse and couldn't possibly imagine what would happen to me if I gave the same bad advise to patients. Could you imagine the law suit ... "sure it is ok to mix those two medicines together, no problems"... I shudder to think of it Professionals are professionals we are suppose to trust that people are knowledgeable in there job ... especially when stores advertise expert advise.

 

[lilacamy931]

I wanted a pleco fromthe start and spent about a month choosing and reading up, ended up with a lovely female bristlenose and have had no problems. My sister on the other hand didnt research on the internet but went by what the LFS said, first time round she ended up with a plec that outgrew the tank at an alarming rate and ate most of the fish towards the end. second time round think she had a common plec but as not good at identification going to have to see (think she took this one back), her partner usually goes around the store going by looks and markings, if it is our good store they have maximum size and tank space next to them if it is the bad store nothing but a price tag and bad staff..

I think plecs can be for anyone as long as they perhaps start out easy or at least do research/have good guidance. Series of questions could be asked - but by who if the LFS are awful? LOL

 

[indigoj]

There are many many different plecs, from 1" to 4ft unfortunately the ones suitable for most home aquaria are sold at high prices apart from the Bristlenose and are not as readily available as the totally unsuitable 'common' plec or gibbiceps.

The LFS buy in these large plecs at 1.5-2" in bult very cheaply knowing most will live less than 12 months and end up in small tanks. That is not right but unfortunately because everyone wants a 'cleaner fish' it means that is business.

The simple answer is research before purchase, ask about adult sizes and remember no fish does the cleaning for you!

I very much doubt LFS will change due to the easy revenue and ignorant new fish keepers will believe 'it will only grow to the size of the tank' until it is too late and they have the fish at home then decide to research it. Bit like cycling a tank really.

On another note, I've never known a plec kill another fish, although they will eat dead/dying bodies.

 

[BlackWidow]

sorrry but i dont really see a point in even discussing this as newbies dont really care for research and that will never change!! So why moan about them not doing enough research ??

 

[Curalingua]

sorrry but i dont really see a point in even discussing this as newbies dont really care for research and that will never change!! So why moan about them not doing enough research ??

Aw thats a bit harsh...some of us newbies do.

The pleco i just posted about on this forum to be ID'd was a rescue case. I am going to re home him but am researching what he is etc before i do so I know he is being re homed appropriately.

I think it would be great if LFS had to prove they had asked a series of questions of any fish purchaser before being given their certificate/registration by the local authority to sell. It is currently incumbent on the purchaser and until it becomes necessary for the LFS to prove that they sell responsibly things won't change.

I have found there is a general lethargy amongst fish keepers/lovers to be pro active in changing things. Almost an acceptance that we cannot change it. One of the problems seems to be that people in general (not keepers) do not really view fish as animals, they seem to be disposable creatures with no brain and feel no pain that are not worth caring about.

Interesting thread. So yes was my vote.

Thanks

Fiona

 

[UK_Dave]

I have 2 commons, and I knew a decent amount about them before buying as my Dad had 1 when I was younger and I loved it, he was a huge guy and looked gorgeous

I love these, there is something about them that I just respect about them

The 1st 1 I got is still a youngster, and is about 4" long or so, and he is in a 80 UKG tank, the other is a bit bigger, and he is in the other tank I picked up last night, and he came with it as he was a rescue really

He is in that tank on his own (read my "climatising a plec thread for the info")

I know they grow large, and I have already got a plan in place to start soon so he can stay with me for life, and hopfully the new guy can too...As I want to build a large tank so that my baby clowns and baby plec will thrive, im looking at building something around the 9ft mark for them as I want to be able to give them a home for life, and the new guy can get a better life with me than what he had

The biggest problem is the LFS is in a bit of a vicious circle, if they give the full info, people may not buy, which means their business isnt great, but on the other hand, they arent helping give certain fish that good life, and unfortunately, bad sales means lack of money, which they dont want as their not running a business to lose money...and as you all know, money makes the world go round

 

[amber26]

Yes i was one of them ignorant or nieve buyers i brought a common pleco only 2 inches long we had him for years till recently he grew to 12 inches and the poor thing was obviously not happy was getting aggresive so i rehomed to someone with a 6foot tank so i think yes they should be some questions asked

 

[Wills]

Its not just plecs there are tons of fish that have been in the hobby for decades and are now seen as staple fish in the hobby to both people in the know and people starting out. The plec in question has earned the name "common plec" but lets face it that could go on literally any plec at all. You could call bulldog plecs common plecs and no one would be none the wiser, essentially in a way this is a branding problem if you want to put it in business terms.

Going back to the Bulldog plec comparison - most adult bulldogs cost between £4-£7 in the UK, almost the exact same price as a common plec however the Bulldog plecs will stay the same size as you see them in store pretty much.

Also like I said this happens with tons of fish that were brought into the hobby early and sold over a number of years to many generations because there simply was no alternatives. Obviously the worst case of this is the goldfish but there are many on the list, oscars, convicts etc but now there are alternatives to all of them (maybe not the oscar they are pretty unique).

I guess one problem with the whole plec debate is essentially no one cares, I mean we do. As hobbyists of course we do but realistically compared to those that read about fish etc compared to those that take advice of the LFS as gospel we are very much a minority. But for someone who wants a tank to sit in a corner for the kids or to spruce up a room a bit or to look like an animal lover some people just want an algae eater and thats it they dont want a Pterygoplichthys pardalis or a L021 they want a creature that will eat the scum off their glass and when they walk in a shop and say this, 9/10 times this is what they leave with.

So while I would agree that a lack of research on the buyer is often a main cause surly more of the responsibility is based at the retailer. And more specifically it is probably a minute amount of people responsible for I would hazard a guess at at least 75% of the common plec sales in the UK; I'm inlcuding albino, common, sailfin and gibbiceps. And the people I am talking about are the "buying team" for pets at home it must be a team of 10-15 people that put common plecs etc on the order list for their stores, they are the people that make the orders from the wholesalers and the breeders and then the distribution of them around the UK. And I would also guess that the team is reasonably unknowledgeable with regards to tropical fish as they are a general pet store keeper and while I would admit that the higher staff are probably brilliant as regards knowing which the best dog and cat food are or are fantastic with regards how they treat the small animals or even the rehoming side of the store which is good also. We know as well as they do that their fishkeeping advice is lax at best, they only started enforcing the use of filters about 6 months to a year ago.

Anyway you can kind of see where I am going, if we want to change things that is who you need to target/contact. The buying section of the major stores and franchises like Pets at Home and Maidenhead and things will change eventually. However the best approach would be a forum wide petition headed up by the admin of the site. Or even better would be the PFK team, as pets at home hold themselves in pretty high regard and to really catch their attention you would need someone recognized in the industry as well.

Sorry for the rambling but just my thoughts on the subject.
Wills

 

[star4]

My mum was sold a "cleaner fish" for my sons tank, she explained to the assistant it was for a small tank with guppies in and what was best, Mum being in her 70's and never kept fish before took the assistants advice and purchased a lovely gold plec. This was our first plec and I was horrified when I researched it and found it was a common and would grow far too big for a 30" tank. I phoned the shop but they wouldnt take it back. The more I looked into the common plec, the more I fell in love with them and my pride and joy are my common and gibby. But yet I dont think these beautiful inteligent creatures should be so cheap and readily available, but business is business and most LFS dont give a hoot about the fish so long as their tills keep ringing.

 

[Haych]

The thing is, you ased "should a series of questions be asked before the sale of a pleco?" and I have said no.

I don't think they should grill you, but I do think they could give you advice on the type of pleco you buy. But don't forget, sometimes the staff may work there, but it's not to say they know everything!

I also believe that you should research pleco's too - but people shouldn't state that newbies are too thick to do this BEFORE buying.

I bought a Golden Nugget pleco as I read in the shop that it wouldn't get too big. This is what I wanted. I asked what food he ate and I was told algae tabs would suffice.

It wasn't until I got so fed up with the poor little man being miserable that I researched, and found that he would like a varied diet and needed 180l tank to himself!

Nothing is as black and white as people would like to say, but that doesn't mean I agree with keeping fish in tiny tanks. Sometimes though, people may buy a small fish, it outgrows it's tank - they may not of known the fish would get so big, but try to fix the situation extend for the fish, some people just flush - just shows who is the more human to cruel - I hate to say this, but it is true