Ich?

[inveritas]

Hello,

I've 5 Cardinal Tetras in a 13G tank, and I've been giving them Protozin for Ich - it's the 3rd day today and there still doesn't seem to be any improvement.

Additionally, I found that the bellies of my tetras have turned white. They are still schooling and swimming well so I doubt it is NTD. Could there be any other cause for this? Image below:

Thanks in advance!

 

[techen]

It could be a bacterial infection rather than ich. Are they flashing? Do the white spots look fluffy?

 

[the_lock_man]

In fairness, it does look like whitespot (ich) to me. I'm in a similar position, I lost Prometheus, my indestructable Cardinal to whitespot last night.

This was my first ever loss to the infection.

Whitespot is a parasitic infection, which has 3 life stages. The first is when the parasite is feeding on the flesh of the fish. It is protected by the white shell you see on the fish, and cannot be harmed by the Protozin. The second stage is when the shell falls off the fish, and lands in the substrate. It is still unharmed by the protozin. This is when the parasite reproduces. Shortly after, the shell bursts open, and releases all the new parasites into the water, where they look for a new fish to infect, and start the cycle again. This is the only time when they are susceptible to the medication.

If you are on day 3 (which I was yesterday), then that's fine, you may well not see an improvement, for the reasons above. Make sure you do your day 3 dose, and then make sure you do your day 6 dose with the Protozin. You current dosing is killing any parasites which are yet to infect a fish (ie they are swimming around currently). The day 6 dose will kill the offpsring of the parasites which are currently inside the shells (spots).

Don't change your water for a few days after that day 6 dose. Then, when you do, make sure you put a new carbon filter cartridge in your filter. Leave it there for a week or two, then remove it and chuck it away.

HTH.

 

[inveritas]

It could be a bacterial infection rather than ich. Are they flashing? Do the white spots look fluffy?

Not flashing, not fluffy. It's exactly like ich - salt on body and fins...I thought the white lumps might mean NTD, but they showed no other symptoms.

In fairness, it does look like whitespot (ich) to me. I'm in a similar position, I lost Prometheus, my indestructable Cardinal to whitespot last night.

This was my first ever loss to the infection.

Whitespot is a parasitic infection, which has 3 life stages. The first is when the parasite is feeding on the flesh of the fish. It is protected by the white shell you see on the fish, and cannot be harmed by the Protozin. The second stage is when the shell falls off the fish, and lands in the substrate. It is still unharmed by the protozin. This is when the parasite reproduces. Shortly after, the shell bursts open, and releases all the new parasites into the water, where they look for a new fish to infect, and start the cycle again. This is the only time when they are susceptible to the medication.

If you are on day 3 (which I was yesterday), then that's fine, you may well not see an improvement, for the reasons above. Make sure you do your day 3 dose, and then make sure you do your day 6 dose with the Protozin. You current dosing is killing any parasites which are yet to infect a fish (ie they are swimming around currently). The day 6 dose will kill the offpsring of the parasites which are currently inside the shells (spots).

Don't change your water for a few days after that day 6 dose. Then, when you do, make sure you put a new carbon filter cartridge in your filter. Leave it there for a week or two, then remove it and chuck it away.

HTH.

RIP for your Cardinal

Thanks for the explanation for the white shells, it is very very very relieving to hear that it's normal. I was going crazy looking up on what other diseases / infections it could be, whether I bought the wrong medicine (Protozin is expensive in Asia!), whether I was underdosing and so on...

I plan to do a 75-90% water change after the 10th day, re-introduce my now quarantined Betta back in the tank, and also add on some Seachem Matrix in the filter to clear up the medicine (no charcoal as I use blackwater extract often, even though its effects are questionable).

Would adding half dosage of aquarium salt in the tank, perhaps on the 15th day, help minimize the risks of another disease? I've read that Protozon and salt is a toxic mix, but I'm hoping 9 days, a big water change and some Matrix would clear the meds up enough.

I'm also thinking of clearing out my filter afterwards, but that would mean going through a new nitrogen cycle. Would that be advisable?

Thanks guys!

 

[the_lock_man]

I've not come across Matrix before, so I've googled it. Unless I've missed something, it's a filter media which provides places for the bacteria to live. It doesn't, as far as I can see, claim to remove medications or heavy metals from the water. A couple of 90% water changes will pretty much get rid of it, but is hugely hard work.

Whilst I don't use blackwater extract, what I intend to do is to introduce a carbon filter on day 13, and remove it again a week later, and that's what I'd suggest you do - once the carbon comes out again, you can go back to using the extract.

I'm not a fan of salt in freshwater aquaria. In this instance, I don't see the benefit. Healthy fish in a well-maintained aquarium shouldn't suffer another infection (I introduced new fish with quarantining - I don't have a QT)

By all means, clean the filter. Keep the media in a bucket of tank water, and you shouldn't suffer any consequences with the filtration. When cleaning the media, rinse the sponges off in old tank water, whilst any ceramics or Matrix don't want to be cleaned at all. The housing can be cleaned off using dechlorinated fresh water.

 

[inveritas]

Ah sorry, I think I was too tired - I meant to type Purigen instead of Matrix: http/www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=2513

I think you're right - I should clean the filter media and not add anything for a while, just let the fish recuperate from the whitespots first

Thanks again!!

 

[inveritas]

Last day of the Protozin course, found a dead Cardinal before I added the medicine in The other 4 are still covered with white spots and white shells on their bellies - what should I do next?