Ich!

[battlefish]

So my planted 10 gallon tank with 3 platys, 1 red swordtail, 2 balloon mollies and 1 black molly has ich.. I also have a small unknown fry which either came with one of the plants or the eco-complete...

Only 2 platies and the red swordtail are visibly affected, but the balloon mollies were periodically lethargic..

This is what I currently did so far.. I removed about 40% of the water and added a fresh 20-25% to lower the water level. The temperature is bumped up to 80 degrees. I read online that some people reccommend 86 degrees, but I am not sure if my cheap heater is capable of going that high. I added 2 teaspoons of CopperSafe (the package says 1 teaspoon per 4 gallons) and turned off the filter and shut the lights.. Is there anymore I can do? Should I get a better heater? and also has anyone had successful results with CopperSafe?

I also wanted to add that this has been only the first day of treatment.. but just wanted to make sure I was doing all that I could..

Furthermore, I got Marine Salt which I use for my other tank with a Green Spotted Puffer.. I read that some people use "aquarium salt" to treat ich.. Could I use marine salt??

Thanks in advance!

 

[Corleone]

What are your water stats? Ammonia, nitrite, etc. It's important to monitor, since ammonia or nitrite in the water can contribute to ich, or make it more persistent through treatment.

One thing, DO NOT turn off the filter while medicating, only remove any carbon cartridge if you use one. It's very important to keep water quality up, and if you turn the filter off, you'll get an ammonia spike quickly.

86F is quite a bit high, I take my temperature up to 80-82 depending on the tank. It's as high as a couple of my heaters will go at all, and it usually proves sufficient.

I'm not 100% sure, but since all the livebearers should be tolerant of slightly brackish water, marine salt might actually be a good idea - take the SG up a couple notches, it's often possible in brackish tanks to treat ich simply by altering the salinity.

 

[OldMan47]

Battlefish, if you are using the salt and temperature treatment, then 86F is about right but it needs lots of added oxygenation to keep the fish alive. High temperature water can be very low in oxygen content. If you are using a medication instead, follow the directions on the package. As Corleone said, do not shut off the filter. That is a quick way to need a fresh start on a fish-in cycle which you certainly do not want. Instead remove only the carbon part of the filter. If you have one of the combination cartridge type filters, the carbon is probably already exhausted so it would not pose a problem.

 

[battlefish]

Ok.. I will add some marine salt to the water. I was a little concerned because platys are strictly freshwater fish.. but some people say they strive with brackish water. I guess thats always a huge debate...

I rinsed out the filter and threw out the carbon... The bag was falling apart.. How do I properly clean the filter?

I know I want to keep the bacteria alive in there that is cycling the water... When i turned the filter back on, all these small white specks started coming out... Is this OK?

 

[OldMan47]

There is no debate about platies being freshwater fish. They are strictly freshwater but they can tolerate enough salt for a salt treatment. There is an information link in my signature that will give lots of good information about ich and its treatment. If you had more than carbon in the filter, some other bits that were in it may be going back into the water. I would expect anything in a filter to be safe for fish so I wouldn't worry about it. If your filter media is badly damaged, it is probably time to start getting a new cartridge ready for when the old one falls apart. That can be as simple as running them together on your tank for a few weeks.

 

[battlefish]

Many thanks for your replies.. There was one glaring spot of ich on one of my platy's head that isn't there anymore, so it looks like the treatment is starting to work.. I will continue with the medication and be in "ich mode" for the next 2 weeks, and hopefully then it'll all be in the clear.... phew... disaster averted so far..

 

[OldMan47]

Be very careful calling ich finished. Each ich parasite attaches to a particular spot on the fish but when it matures it falls off to continue its life cycle with the stage that is in your gravel. After that the tomites become free swimming and are vulnerable to your treatments while they search the water for a new host. When they attach to the fish, they are again not vulnerable to treatment. It is the reason that advice is to rteat for a while after all signs of spots are gone. It is after the spots fall off that the treatment actually has an effect. If you stop at that time, you give the ich a chance to set up housekeeping on a new host fish. The entire life cycle takes a few days to take place, depending on water temperature, so that is why the typical advice is a week after the last sign of a spot.

Edit: correct the name of the free swimming stage.

 

[battlefish]

Be very careful calling ich finished. Each ich parasite attaches to a particular spot on the fish but when it matures it falls off to continue its life cycle with the stage that is in your gravel. After that the tomites become free swimming and are vulnerable to your treatments while they search the water for a new host. When they attach to the fish, they are again not vulnerable to treatment. It is the reason that advice is to rteat for a while after all signs of spots are gone. It is after the spots fall off that the treatment actually has an effect. If you stop at that time, you give the ich a chance to set up housekeeping on a new host fish. The entire life cycle takes a few days to take place, depending on water temperature, so that is why the typical advice is a week after the last sign of a spot.

Edit: correct the name of the free swimming stage.

Is it safe to use chlorine/chloramine removers with CopperSafe?? I need to change the water, but I'm worried that the water conditioner will render the medicine useless.. Right now I am doing it the old fashion way: waiting... My fish are at the top a lot, gasping for air.. I am wondering if it is ammonia build up.. There is no carbon in the filter right now.

 

[Corleone]

They are safe.

 

[quantumnerd]

My advice is this:

Check all the fish for disease, but if they are sick, and treatment dosn't work, throw 'em out.

I know, not very kind to your fishies, but the disease could easily spread, right?

Unless you have the sickies in isolation, you've got to care for the healthy ones.

 

[Corleone]

Euthanasia is sometimes the only answer, however, ich is easily contained - the water born stage is vulnerable to aquarium salt, copper, malachite green, and a few other common medicines.

An isolation tank is always important, regardless. New fish should be quarantined for several weeks, as even perfectly healthy arrivals can take a downturn when stressed by an unfamiliar environment.

 

[battlefish]

Euthanasia is sometimes the only answer, however, ich is easily contained - the water born stage is vulnerable to aquarium salt, copper, malachite green, and a few other common medicines.

An isolation tank is always important, regardless. New fish should be quarantined for several weeks, as even perfectly healthy arrivals can take a downturn when stressed by an unfamiliar environment.

The ich is definitely less visible than it previously was.. However, without carbon filtration and probably less bio filtration, the poor fish look like they are suffering.. I want to use Amquel in the tank, but it says it may reduce the effectiveness of some medications.. At very least, I want to change the water..

UPDATE: The ich broke out again on my 3 platys and 1 swordtail. The 3 mollies are strangely still unaffected.. Maybe because they are more adept for brackish waters.. I guess I'll just be patient.. It looks like the first ich cycle was only a couple days..

 

[OldMan47]

You need to maintain treatment for at least a week after there are no more signs of disease on any fish. You can and should maintain good water chemistry in the tank. What that means is each time you do a water change you will need to add back enough of whatever you are using for medication so that the concentration is maintained. If you are being effective in the treatments, the spots will fall off your fish and you will not see new ones after the first fewq days because you will be killing the tomites while they are free swimming before they can take up residence on your fish. The first few days you may see new spots while the parasites already on the fish become large enough for you to see them.

 

[battlefish]

You need to maintain treatment for at least a week after there are no more signs of disease on any fish. You can and should maintain good water chemistry in the tank. What that means is each time you do a water change you will need to add back enough of whatever you are using for medication so that the concentration is maintained. If you are being effective in the treatments, the spots will fall off your fish and you will not see new ones after the first fewq days because you will be killing the tomites while they are free swimming before they can take up residence on your fish. The first few days you may see new spots while the parasites already on the fish become large enough for you to see them.

Thanks OldMan47.. I changed about 70% of the water today... I decided to treat with salt.. That way I don't have to worry about the AmQuel messing with the CopperSafe... I figure Ammonia is going to make the ich worse than anything... The specific gravity was about 1.004 yesterday.. Today I upped it to about 1.006. Should I continue to raise the salinity? My green spotted puffer is in 1.008, so I'm not sure if I should go that high for platys, although the puffer is "brackish" so... it might be ok..

Also, since the ich is vulnerable when they fall off the fish in tomite form... Should I do a major water change at the first visible sign of improvement?? What I mean is.. when there is no (or less) ich on the fish, that would mean it is free floating in the water, correct?? Sorry if I'm jumping the gun.. I just want to get this right.. Thanks again!

EDIT: Also, would CopperSafe be okay to use with AmQuel Plus? I have read conflicting views on it.. Some say AmQuel will remove metals like copper rendering the medicine useless.. Some say that have done this with success.. and elsewhere I've actually read that mixing a metal remover and CopperSafe can produce a toxic by-product.. I'm tempted to go with Salt AND coppersafe for a 1-2-punch, but I just want to make sure it is sound..

 

[OldMan47]

The key to successful treatment of ich is to make sure that if the tomites are free swimming at a particular moment, they die before they get a chance to set up housekeeping on a new fish. The specific gravity is not something that I have ever tried to measure, so I follow the dosing level in that link in my signature. The teaspoons per gallon measurement is plenty good enough to wipe out ich. The reason you need to get serious about the SG of your water is not that you couldn't get it right with a simple measurement. In a brackish tank you don't want it varying a lot due to things like evaporation so you actually need to measure it. In this case we are dealing with a one time dose to kill off a parasite. The long term effects of evaporation and similar things just don't play into it.