Ich heat-treatment questions

[BkkprGal]

Hey guys. It's me again. I pulled a Newbie by putting new fish in my tank without quarantining and now one fish has Ich spots.

Friday: I added 2 danios and one albino cory to tank that already had 3 danios and two albino corys.

Sunday: As part of a planned remodel, I completely emptied the tank, removed old substrate, added new substrate, took out most decorations and just added back some Saggitaria and a few fake plants. I didn't do anything to the filter and I didn't clean the walls of the tank except for rinsing in the sink (well water). At this point, I didn't realize there was an Ich issue but I had noticed that one new danio had a light spot on his back that I thought maybe he got from the drama of moving them into a holding cel.

Tonight, Monday: This morning, Danio Boy definitely had Ich spots. After reading a bunch of info on here about heat treatment, I shook out the filter in some water and put filter back in the tank. The only thing I haven't done is wipe down the tank walls (because I didn't know this was happening when I had the tank empty). Tank has only been cycled for about a month.

I've taken the infected fish out, though I don't have a quarantine set-up and I'm not really sure what I'm going to do with him. He's in a wine glass right now, but I do have a small in-tank filter just no additional heater and I'm not sure what I can put him in. I guess I could use a heating pad, but it cuts off after 2 hours.

I've raised the heat and will bring it up to 86* over the next 24 hours. I do have a separate thermometer at the opposite end of the tank and will put insulation around it to hold the heat.

Questions -

• Do I have to I do another complete empty/refill so I can wipe the walls?
• Should I put sick dude back in tank to go through the heat treatment and drop all his existing casings?
• Should I feed as long as their interested in eating?
• Do you recommend additional vacuum cleaning during the 2 weeks?
• What precautions do I need to take with the equipment I'm using - vacuum and net - to ensure they don't have Ich on them? How could I clean the net?

I think that's it. I really appreciate y'alls input. Please be kind, I feel like a real stooge for having to keep asking for help.
TYIA


ETA: I put the wine glass in the tank so it will keep his water warm overnight. It will stay put until I figure out what to do.

 

[DoubleDutch]

First show a pic to be sure it is Ich.
If it is Ich put the fish in the tank again and treat the whole tank. The parasite is in the whole tank (invisible stage of its lifecycle).
Keep the heat up for at least 2 weeks then.

 

[Colin_T]

Questions -

• Do I have to I do another complete empty/refill so I can wipe the walls?
• Should I put sick dude back in tank to go through the heat treatment and drop all his existing casings?
• Should I feed as long as their interested in eating?
• Do you recommend additional vacuum cleaning during the 2 weeks?
• What precautions do I need to take with the equipment I'm using - vacuum and net - to ensure they don't have Ich on them? How could I clean the net?

1) No you don't have to empty the tank to clean the glass. Just use a clean sponge for the fish tank and wipe the slime off the inside.

2) White spot will be in the tank so put the fish back in and treat the entire tank. You need to keep the water at 30C (86F) for 2 weeks, or at least 1 week after all the white dots have gone.

3) Keep feeding the fish as per normal.

4) You can do a water change and gravel clean each week or however often you normally do it. Just be sure to warm the new water up to 30C (86F) before adding it to the tank.

5) If you have several aquariums, do not use the same equipment between the different tanks. If you have to, then rinse the nets, gravel cleaner, etc, under tap water and let them dry for 24 hours. They should be safe to use after that.

Wash your hands and arms with warm soapy water after working in the tank.

Don't move stuff between tanks until the white spot is gone.

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When you use chemicals or heat to treat fish, increase aeration/ surface turbulence to increase oxygen levels in the water. Warm water holds less oxygen than cooler water. Chemicals and salt reduce the oxygen in the water too. Increasing aeration helps to maximise oxygen in the water.

The following link has information on white spot. Post #1 and #16 are worth a read.

What is ICH?

This is a common question that is often asked, what is ich and how is it recognisable and what causes it? The real term is ICHTHYOPHTHIRIASIS. OR commonly known as white spot. It is an extremely comon parasite that affects aquarium fish. It is highly infectious and potentially lethal and...

www.fishforums.net

 

[BkkprGal]

Thank you @DoubleDutch
And @Colin_T Thanks again for your help and for answering my questions specifically. I assumed that the purpose of scraping the slime off the walls was to remove it from the tank, that's why I thought it needed to be drained. So, is the purpose to expose more of it to the heat and let the filter gather it up.

Here's a quick video. You can see the spots best at 18 & 20 seconds, but the white at the base of his tail has definitely gotten worse overnight. And I can see it alot better in the video than I could with my eyes.

 

[DoubleDutch]

I like to hear different opinions but I have my doubts it is Ich.

 

[BkkprGal]

I do too and I'm agreeing with you more this morning after getting this closer view. I'll wait for more feedback and keep him segregated until I get a consensus.

 

[GaryE]

I doubt that's Ich, and it shows a reason why I never suggest heat treatment. If it is bacterial (and that's my guess) heat will help it kill the fish. I would guess (and a photo can only get you educated or, in my case, semi-educated guesses) it's a flexibacter/flavobacterium infection - columnaris in most hobby sites. It is doing the rounds in a lot of farmed fish these days. Isolate him, and hope. In some places, you can buy antibuiotics over the counter, but if you aren't sure what it is, you can contribute to antibiotic resistance by using the wrong one.

 

[BkkprGal]

I appreciate your input @GaryE

When any fish looks ill, is it best to remove/isolate until you come up with a "semi-educate guess"? I'm assuming YES, but my assumptions have been wrong lately lol.

This was an interesting read! https://veterinaryresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1297-9716-44-27#Tab1

I have to go into a meeting. I'll turn the heater back down and look into this more later. Thanks again!

 

[Essjay]

It's definitely not ich - that looks like someone has sprinkled salt over the fish. Your fish has white patches not "sprinkled salt"

 

[BkkprGal]

In person, it does look like sprinkled salt and in the video you can see the specks briefly at 18 & 20 seconds. The specks were more prevalent last night, but this morning the white patch is more prevalent.

 

[FranciscoB]

Always hard to say from photos/video. I believe two things are going on: A bacterial/fungal infection (large white fluffy stuff), which may have appeared on top of a pre-existing wound. Then, I do believe I see what can be considered ick.
Agree on treating the whole tank. Good luck!

 

[Colin_T]

The reason you wipe the slime off the glass is to get rid of the microscopic organisms living in it. The slime (biofilm) is produced by bacteria and often houses harmful bacteria, viruses, fungus and protozoa. By wiping the glass down regularly, you get rid of these microscopic organisms and the tank and water will be cleaner.

Just wipe the glass down before doing a water change and gravel clean and you will remove most of it that way.

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ZEBRA DANIO
I don't see any white spot on the fish.

The white clump on the rear part of the body looks like a wound with fungal infection. Salt should fix it.

The fish also has a number of marks on its body that look like someone tried to eat it. Are there any big fish in the tank?

The fish's gills are a bit flared outwards and that can be poor water quality of a gill problem (gill flukes or fungal infection).

I would add salt and monitor over the next week.

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SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

 

[BkkprGal]

I've already turned the heater down and will increment it back to where it was. I'll start salt treatment when I get home.

There are no big fish in there. One danio chases the littler ones when they feed but I've never seen her nip at anyone. Thus her name: Cruella

If you zoom into the picture in my original post, the other 4 danios can be seen at the bottom right. Add in the 3 corys and that's it.
There is one other zebra danio the same size, he & Cruella have been in there since the beginning and she's never roughed him up.

Thanks for telling me about cleaning the glass. I always thought you only did that when algae started to grow, aesthetics. I had no idea that getting rid of the invisible bacteria was making the tank healthier. Awesome!

 

[BkkprGal]

Good morning,

I added aquarium salt last night and marked the calendar. I'll try to update when the 2 weeks are up. I noticed, when reviewing other posts, that few people give updates after getting advice. That makes it really hard to know whether the diagnosis was correct.

Two final questions -

1. Does the salt affect standard API Master Test results?
2. Would there be any benefit in dropping the temp down to like 68* for the purpose of slowing the fungus or would that just unduly stress the fish more? I previously kept it at 74*.

TY!

 

[Colin_T]

The amount of salt added to a freshwater tank for treating fish is unlikely to change the water test results. Sometimes the salt can cause the water being tested by freshwater test kits to turn cloudy when the indicator solutions are added, but the results are still accurate.

Don't drop the temperature, it doesn't help when treating a stressed or sick fish.