ICH Everywhere!

[FishKids]

...in fact, the more I read the more I KNOW its ICH. The question is what to do in the morning? Here are my concerns after plenty of reading from the Internet...

1. What truly is the best medication? Is it "King British WS3 White Spot Terminator", Maracide, Maracyn, MALACHITE GREEN, or Copper Safe???
2. Should I and could I (Dr. Seuss ) raise the temp to at least 86 degrees without killing the fry or any other fish (neon, cardinal, endler tetras, platies, butterfly loach?
3. Since the Butterfly loach has no scales will any of the chemical medications in question 1 kill him?
4. We are a least 48-hours after seeing spots, and assumed to be in the "Free swimming phase" where tiny salt like spots are everywhere. If this is correct then how much permanent damage if any is there? And will the spots go away?
5. After the successful treatment of ICH, what is the likelihood of a secondary infection and how can I help to minimize the chances?

 

[kaztrekie]

malachite green is the best . check the dose for your tank you may have to half dose because of the butterfly loach putting the temp up should`nt hurt any of the fish but keep a close eye on it. i found the advice on this sites ich page very helpful. the spots will go away but theres a risk of the wounds getting infected make sure you finish the course of treatment and check all water levels.
read the ich page if you need more advice.

 

[breezer40]

Here are some answers to your questions:

[/QUOTE]1. What truly is the best medication? Is it "King British WS3 White Spot Terminator", Maracide, Maracyn, MALACHITE GREEN, or Copper Safe???

No easy answer..everyone has their own favorite and they will tell you the one they use is best. I have only ever used Waterlife and that worked ok but it wasn't as effective as just high temps.

2. Should I and could I (Dr. Seuss ) raise the temp to at least 86 degrees without killing the fry or any other fish (neon, cardinal, endler tetras, platies, butterfly loach?

The Platy and the loach I can tell you from experience will do fine with the high temps. I have never kept tetra but if you put the temps up they will soon let you know if they are having a hard time and if this is the case tke the temps SLOWLY back down.

I had 3 tanks a while back and they all got ICH Each of the tanks had different types of fish so I ended up having to treat them differently. One of the tanks had loaches, fry and catfish in..Some meds can cause more harm than good with these fish if your not careful. This tank I treated with heat alone by raising temps over 86. Within days the spots went. Kept the heat up for two weeks and this tank has been fine since.

The other two tanks had danios and other fish that don't cope too well at high temps. I treated these tanks with meds and it was a nightmare! Both had ICH return after two weeks and both started to cycle! Eventually the ICH did go.

3. Since the Butterfly loach has no scales will any of the chemical medications in question 1 kill him?

Depends on the medication and the strength used. Some meds are more friendly than others so read the details on the bottle.

4. We are a least 48-hours after seeing spots, and assumed to be in the "Free swimming phase" where tiny salt like spots are everywhere. If this is correct then how much permanent damage if any is there? And will the spots go away?

The free swimming stage is the best time to wage war on ICH! This is the only time the ICH can actually be killed. All spots will go when the ICH has been killed. The only perminant damage I have had from ICH is dead fish. Some just don't cope and I did lose a guppy but all others seem non the worse.

5. After the successful treatment of ICH, what is the likelihood of a secondary infection and how can I help to minimize the chances?

The fish go through quite alot with ICH and it can leave them weak therefore open to other infections.

I am no expert on ICH or any other illness for that matter but I hope my Experiences can at least give you some help

 

[FishKids]

Great, I have hope thank you…, then given my situation the best treatment might follow this course of action:

With 2 Platies, 1 Butterfly Loach, 5 Rummy Nose Tetra, 1 Cardinal Tetra, 2 Neon Tetra, 6 Endlers, and a cage of 25 fry Guppies.

- Beginning immediately to slowly increase the temp from currently 81 degrees to 86 degrees over the next 24-hours.
- Of the 3 LFS in the area find the one with “Waterlife” if possible, and immediately begin treatment as recommended. Remove charcoal filter.

1. The correct determination and length of treatment details I will assume come along with the instructions contained in the medication. Can you recommend water changes during or after and period?
2. Once treatment period is ended what length of time would you recommend using to gradually bring temp back to normal?

This entire event falls on the very day (today) that the tank is scheduled for a Weekly and B-Weekly maintenance…

Weekly Maintenance (Thursdays) Amounts
Cycle (bacteria nutrifier) -------------------------------- 5.0 ml /10 gal.
Pro Plant (Plant Growth Accelerator) ------------------- 1.7 ml /10 gal.
Freshwater Plant (Plant Supplement) ------------------- 1.7 ml /10 gal.
Test the pH, ammonia, nitrite, & nitrate levels

Bi-Weekly Maintenance (Every-other Thursday)
25% fresh water replacement ----------------------------
AmQuel (Ammonia Chloramines Chlorine Removal) 00.5 ml / gal.
NovAqua (Slime Coating) ---------------------------------- 00.5 ml / gal.

3. Should any part of the above for the moment be postponed?

 

[breezer40]

Before you begin the waterlife treatment do a water change and make sure you give the gravel a good cleaning this will help get any of the ICH at the trophet stage (when the spots fall off the fish they rest at the bottom and multipy).


Waterlife isn't as bad as some of the meds on the market and I have a friend who has used it at full strength with loaches. The instructions will tell you (if I remmember correctly) to treat the tank on day 1.2 and 3 then miss day 4 and begin again on day 5. If after completeing the full course the ICH is still there then you may have to re-treat but the bottle has all this on it.

I always keep the temps up for 2 weeks just to be 100% sure the ICH has really gone.

Raising the temps and meds do take there toll on the oxigen and therefore it is vital that you make allowences for this by either turning up your existing airflow (if possible) or putting an additional airline in.

Keep us informed of your progress and good luck!

 

[Henry_VCG_]

interesting use of quotes

 

[breezer40]

Like to be different

 

[FishKids]

…we are in full search and destroy mode of all ICH.

After conversations with all 3 LFS in the immediate area it was determined, with the help of gut instincts, to go along with one owner who recommended Rid-Ich highly. http/www.novalek.com/kpd38.htm Unfortunately, none of the products recommended from this forum were available.

The NOVALEK product has a great reputation and clearly addressed all my concerns on the bottle, including the main ingredient malachite green, the sensitivities to scale-less fish like my Butterfly Loach, secondary infections, stress and response to medication, etc. So far we have lost a neon tetra, and 3 fry guppies.

Breezer40, I would like you to know that for the most part you are RIGHT ON! After cross referencing information gleaned mostly from the Internet and the local LFS’s…, I can say that your information jives. The store owner was not only extremely impressed by my notes and questions after less then 60 days at this, not withstanding the mistake of adding too many fish too soon, but also the correctness of information from this very forum.

I am sure they also love how I have succeeded in ringing up $20-$30 dollars every time I walk through their doors.

Keep up the great work! I will keep everyone posted on my success.

 

[breezer40]

I hadn't seen the NOVALEK product before but it looks like a good choice fishkids.

Thank you for the praise I have to say I think you need a pat on the back yourself for taking the information you have found and using it to find out more.

I'm real sorry about the neon tetra, and 3 fry guppies Fingers crossed all the other fishes will get through this.

 

[FishKids]

Fish are sleeping and so should the rest of us... Last test results were great! We'll be in touch soon. Cheers!

Water tested this evening NH 0.0 mg/l, NO2 <0.3 mg/l, NO3 <12.5 mg/l

 

[FishKids]

...my final notes on this issue, we DID reach a happy :noted: conclusion. The ICH was entirely destroyed and the community lives happily ever after!

Logs:

05/26/04 1 Neon Tetra died after noticing it swimming doing summersaults. Spots are believed to be ICH disease. Noticed small granules of salt like spots over all the fish except the Endlers added the day before.

05/27/04 4 fry guppies died (16 remaining)
Weekly Maintenance (Thursdays)
Bi-Weekly Maintenance (Every-other Thursday)
(noon) Began Rid-Ich treat for ICH, slowly raising temp from 81 to 86 degrees during an 8-hour span. Removed charcoal filter.
Water tested (evening) NH3 - 0.0 mg/l, NO2 - <0.3 mg/l, NO3 - * <12.5 mg/l

05/28/04 No signs of ICH

05/29/04 Water tested (morning) NH3 - 0.0 mg/l, NO2 - <0.3 mg/l, NO3 - 12.5 mg/l

06/01/04 1 fry guppy died (14 remaining)

06/02/04 Last treatment of Rid-ICH, beginning to gradually lower temperature from 86 F to 85 F. Added new charcoal bag, lowered temperature from 85F to 84 F

06/03/04 Weekly Maintenance (Thursdays), Bi-Weekly Maintenance (Every-other Thursday), Monthly Maintenance (Fridays) Added Poly filter, Temp back to 81F