IBC giving wrong information about wild Bettas...!?

[betta4ever!]

Go have a look at their site. They recommend a 10 gallon tank for a pair of betta Channoides or Albimarginata, two species that grow up to 2 inches- completely agree with that. But they also recommend the same tank size, 10 gallons, for a pair of betta Unimaculata, a species which can grow to 5 inches long!!!!! Whaaat? They'll hardly have the space to turn around in there! And then they also recommend 2.5 gallons for a pair of betta Simplex , a species which grows up to 3 inches.... Now that's insane. I just hope newbies who want wilds won't just go get a ten gallon and put a Betta unimaculata pair or get a 2.5 gallon bowl for a pair of Simplex...

 

[Rocky998]

Go have a look at their site. They recommend a 10 gallon tank for a pair of betta Channoides or Albimarginata, two species that grow up to 2 inches- completely agree with that. But they also recommend the same tank size, 10 gallons, for a pair of betta Unimaculata, a species which can grow to 5 inches long!!!!! Whaaat? They'll hardly have the space to turn around in there! And then they also recommend 2.5 gallons for a pair of betta Simplex , a species which grows up to 3 inches.... Now that's insane. I just hope newbies who want wilds won't just go get a ten gallon and put a Betta unimaculata pair or get a 2.5 gallon bowl for a pair of Simplex...

Yah... That's not right.
Any fish of 5 inches won't do well in a 10g yet alone two.

And no fish does well in a 2.5g...

 

[GaryE]

I encounter the same thinking in my killie world. A lot of the older keepers use 2 or 2.5 gallon tanks for pairs. I can't argue with their success, as they often breed really difficult fish and maintain them for many generations. Not many fishkeepers can replicate their success. Is it better when we don't maintain the fish, but lose them after a generation or two and have to get more from the wild, if they are still there?

At least these people aren't consumers, but producers.

Would I do it myself? No. I keep and breed the same fish with one pair in a 10 gallon. I have species I've kept for 30 years. But I have more space and resources than many of these older keepers had. I used small tanks when I lived in an apartment. I wouldn't want to go back to it, but I get where they are coming from.

Killies and bettas often have the same people interested in them. The fish aren't big swimmers (for most species, not all) and they hang around in one spot quite well.

What I would do and argue for is not what everyone buys into. The small tank crew have their points to make, as much as it goes against the grain for younger keepers (and for old guys like me). It's hard to worry about ethics if you keep fancy Betta splendens with the cultivated mutations...

So I don't think this is wrong information. It's info you and I disagree with.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Yep, that sounds messed up. But as Gary points out, expert keepers and breeders can often keep fish "happy" in smaller tanks than would work for normal people.

I knew a guy who kept and bred large groups of B. spendens in largely unfurnished 40 gallon tanks. Somehow they didn't kill each other, and they seemed healthy and content: Active, peaceful, vibrant colors, constant successful spawning. His secret was that he put in the work: Constant monitoring, switching fish around as aggression problems arose, dedicated care for fry. He was retired, well-to-do, and basically lived as a professional fish breeder. After a few years he gave it up, I suspect because he simply got tired!

It worked for him, and that's great. Would I try it myself, or advise anyone else to? Heck no!

 

[Rocky998]

Yep, that sounds messed up. But as Gary points out, expert keepers and breeders can often keep fish "happy" in smaller tanks than would work for normal people.

I knew a guy who kept and bred large groups of B. spendens in largely unfurnished 40 gallon tanks. Somehow they didn't kill each other, and they seemed healthy and content: Active, peaceful, vibrant colors, constant successful spawning. His secret was that he put in the work: Constant monitoring, switching fish around as aggression problems arose, dedicated care for fry. He was retired, well-to-do, and basically lived as a professional fish breeder. After a few years he gave it up, I suspect because he simply got tired!

It worked for him, and that's great. Would I try it myself, or advise anyone else to? Heck no!

Incredible...

 

[GaryE]

I could get roasted for saying this, but the last time I said it, it immediately got sidetracked into a pit bull battle so I escaped unburnt.

I had wild Betta splendens from Laos, caught by a good friend. They bred in a 30 inch tank, and the fry grew into adults with the parents, who never had to be separated. I looked at my friend's go-pro footage from the habitat, and created something like it. The males, who as wilds had never been linebred to fight, sparred a little, flared some fins, etc. No one got hurt. The breeding isn't just for the fins - it was for behaviour and gambling on fights long before pretty Bettas caught on. Betta splendens was the Siamese Fighting Fish when it was introduced, after all.

Jarring Bettas is driven by us as consumers. We want Bettas with commercially viable, unragged, undamaged fins, and we pay good prices for them. Then we complain about jarring.

The thing that struck me in the go pro footage from underwater in Laos is that the Betta splendens male it focused on hovered in place, waiting for flies and love, seemingly in that order. He was one boring fish - waiting in ambush in the reedy habitat, to wallop food. Another fish appeared in the background, moving very little. It was impossible to say if it was male, but video guy seemed unconcerned. The go-pro footage visibility was well under a metre, but that's more than I expected.

So while water quality may scare us, the fish didn't swim around a lot. If it had, it would have barged into the habitats of other males, and that would probably have gotten them fighting. The wilds weren't aggressive like the cultivated battlers, but they weren't easy going either. With that behaviour, small tanks can be argued for.

My friend said she saw a lot of splendens in the flooded meadow type pond, and that every centimetre of space was claimed by a male. They were hard to catch as the surprisingly clear water was knee deep and they'd dive for cover into the soft debris.

 

[betta4ever!]

So I don't think this is wrong information. It's info you and I disagree with.

You're right. That's a better way to describe it. But still, even if it works for them, I don't think they should recommend it to other people.... For example, they could write "10 gallons is doable, but 20 gallons or bigger is preferred when possible" or something similar....

 

[betta4ever!]

I could get roasted for saying this, but the last time I said it, it immediately got sidetracked into a pit bull battle so I escaped unburnt.

I had wild Betta splendens from Laos, caught by a good friend. They bred in a 30 inch tank, and the fry grew into adults with the parents, who never had to be separated. I looked at my friend's go-pro footage from the habitat, and created something like it. The males, who as wilds had never been linebred to fight, sparred a little, flared some fins, etc. No one got hurt. The breeding isn't just for the fins - it was for behaviour and gambling on fights long before pretty Bettas caught on. Betta splendens was the Siamese Fighting Fish when it was introduced, after all.

Jarring Bettas is driven by us as consumers. We want Bettas with commercially viable, unragged, undamaged fins, and we pay good prices for them. Then we complain about jarring.

The thing that struck me in the go pro footage from underwater in Laos is that the Betta splendens male it focused on hovered in place, waiting for flies and love, seemingly in that order. He was one boring fish - waiting in ambush in the reedy habitat, to wallop food. Another fish appeared in the background, moving very little. It was impossible to say if it was male, but video guy seemed unconcerned. The go-pro footage visibility was well under a metre, but that's more than I expected.

So while water quality may scare us, the fish didn't swim around a lot. If it had, it would have barged into the habitats of other males, and that would probably have gotten them fighting. The wilds weren't aggressive like the cultivated battlers, but they weren't easy going either. With that behaviour, small tanks can be argued for.

My friend said she saw a lot of splendens in the flooded meadow type pond, and that every centimetre of space was claimed by a male. They were hard to catch as the surprisingly clear water was knee deep and they'd dive for cover into the soft debris.

I don't know why you could get roasted for saying this (although I do remember the Pitbull thing, lol). There's nothing I disagree with, and I would question anyone that does...

 

[betta4ever!]

Yep, that sounds messed up. But as Gary points out, expert keepers and breeders can often keep fish "happy" in smaller tanks than would work for normal people.

I knew a guy who kept and bred large groups of B. spendens in largely unfurnished 40 gallon tanks. Somehow they didn't kill each other, and they seemed healthy and content: Active, peaceful, vibrant colors, constant successful spawning. His secret was that he put in the work: Constant monitoring, switching fish around as aggression problems arose, dedicated care for fry. He was retired, well-to-do, and basically lived as a professional fish breeder. After a few years he gave it up, I suspect because he simply got tired!

It worked for him, and that's great. Would I try it myself, or advise anyone else to? Heck no!

Seen a few people do this, in a Greek forum. Some with 40 gallons, some with 100 gallons and one with a 3.500 gallon pond. Have to say it is impressive, and it's proved to be very much possible...

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Seen a few people do this, in a Greek forum. Some with 40 gallons, some with 100 gallons and one with a 3.500 gallon pond. Have to say it is impressive, and it's proved to be very much possible...

Yep. But very few people will want to put in the work, research, and vigilance necessary, which means it will result in disaster.

 

[NearMeBettas]

I see a lot of betta breeders getting "creamed" and have myself been, because of tank size. The thing is, we only have the fish for a short period of time. We sell our breeders when they can't effectively breed which can only be a year or two, and sell the juveniles at less than a year if possable. If we have juveniles in quart to two-quart grow-out tubs that are clean and have some live plants, or 6-10 get along females in a clean heavily planted 10 gallons, it's not a big deal.

What I do expect is for my retired breeders and juveniles to go to a home that will have an adequate amount of space with plants and clean water where they can happily live out their life.

I guess I really don't get that weird tank size difference on that article, but that's why we have forums like this.