I Thought My Fish Where Bronze Corys

[StrontiumDog]

Hi,

I have always thought my corys to be the Bronze. Up until I saw a posted pic from Inchworm, on another thread.
A pictured titled C. schultzei (gold shoulders). I was totaly gob smacked, said to myself there the same as my Bronze

How often is this mistake made by us not so clued up cory fans
and how often are they misslabled in the lsf, ok juvs may not have the full colour of an adult. So i've just answered my own question

Are they rare? or are they redily available as Bronze corys?

Another question is the breeding. Mine seem to have spawned fairly easily after a time,but with not a great survival rate from the fry.
Could this be due to the fact that one of the females maybe either a Bronze or a hybrid of the two.

Your thoughts if you please

 

[StrontiumDog]

Inchworms Photo

An old photo of my first three

 

[jelloz]

Now I am confused. I don't know what I have. Possibly some of each, Aeneus and Schultzei.

This could explain why sometimes the fertilization rate is high and sometimes it is low.

I am with you Dog, I just don't get it.

 

[Inchworm]

Until recently the corys we know now as C. schultzei (both black and the gold shoulders) and CW009 (green lasers) and CW010 (orange lasers) were all called C. aeneus. They were considered to be color variations much like the albinos. After much speculation by the hobbyists, whoever makes this decision finally reclassified them.

There is also some variation among what is now left as C. aeneus. Corys from different geographic areas look a little different from each other. Since they come from a widespread area (Brazil, Peru, Trinidad, Venezuela, Ecuador, Columbia, etc.) this could account for a lot of different appearances. There have also been countless generations of them bred in captivity and they look somewhat different from the wild caught specimens.

This is a wild caught bronze C. aeneus that came to my lfs from Brazil. Notice the difference in color from the usual farm raised cory most often found at the lfs.

Here's another picture I posted of the C. schultzei, this time taken from the top. The line extends down their bodies and more closely resembles that of the lasar corys than the C. aeneus.

I've just recently seen them start to appear in the lfs near me. Once they were just called gold shoulders and the other time they were unidentified. It's easy to see where there could be some confusion.

BTW, the C. schultzei in the picture came from Coryologist quite some time ago. They are good spawners and just generally excellent fish. I don't know if the will breed with C. aeneus, but he might.

 

[jelloz]

Thanks inch. This is what I thought. My Aeneus looks a lot like your wild caught Aeneus.

I guess I don't understand why someone has not taken some male CW010s and some female Aeneus and put them together to see if they have fertile eggs?

Also, I have been wondering if the Green (CW009) and Gold (CW010) Lasers could be genetically manipulated Aeneus catfish similar to what was done to Glofish. Glofish do come in orange and green in addition to red.

http/www.glofish.com/

 

[Inchworm]

Hi jelloz

The CW009s and CW010s are natural fish and the ones that reach the market are usually wild caught. Their colors are so bright, almost like embedded neon tubes, that many people think they are "designer fish," but they are real. So are the C. schultzei (gold shoulders,) but the black ones have been line bred from the darker colored ones (originally in Germany) to get that velvety black color.

While some species of corydoras will cross breed, others don't. There are so many naturally occurring variations of color and pattern among them that creating hybrids is usually frowned upon by responsible breeders and hobbyists alike.

Thanks for the GloFish link.

 

[jelloz]

Thanks inch. This is what I thought. My Aeneus looks a lot like your wild caught Aeneus.

I guess I don't understand why someone has not taken some male CW010s and some female Aeneus and put them together to see if they have fertile eggs?

Also, I have been wondering if the Green (CW009) and Gold (CW010) Lasers could be genetically manipulated Aeneus catfish similar to what was done to Glofish. Glofish do come in orange and green in addition to red.

[URL="http/www.glofish.com/"]http/www.glofish.com/[/URL]

On another website I found a reference to a "Red Stripe" cory in addition to the Orange and Green versions. This has me really wondering now about these fish. These "Newly Found" cories just happen to come in the same 3 colors that the genetically modified Glofish come in.

I find it hard to believe that 150 years after identifying the plain camoflaged Aeneus catfish of South America, all of a sudden, 3 versions of brightly colored catfish are found? And all three new species just happen to be in the same colors as Glofish?

I am not accusing anyone of anything, I just find it really strange.......

My 2 cents.....

 

[Inchworm]

Hi jelloz

These corys are not "newly found," but, after a great deal of study, they have recently been renamed. The old literature will show them listed as variations of C. aeneus.

 

[Coryologist]

- Quote edited by Coryologist.

These "Newly Found" cories just happen to come in the same 3 colors that the genetically modified Glofish come in.

I find it hard to believe that 150 years after identifying the plain camoflaged Aeneus catfish of South America, all of a sudden, 3 versions of brightly colored catfish are found? And all three new species just happen to be in the same colors as Glofish?

I am not accusing anyone of anything, I just find it really strange.......

My 2 cents.....

It is very important to understand that there are still areas of the Amazon Basin that have never been explored, especially in relation to something like the local catfish populations. It is estimated that there could be hundreds of unknown species of fish, including Corys in these areas. Suriname, alone may have that many, as it is basically virgin territory for collecting Corys and other species of catfish.

The belief that somehow these fish are either dyed, or genetically altered by man, although a nice "conspiracy theory," is simply absurd. I have kept and spawned all of these color variations. They are naturally occurring species. Additionally, both Ian Fuller and myself have had a very small number of "blue" lasers produced by our green laser spawning groups. The color is subtle, but it is "sky blue" in comparison to their normal green siblings.

I once had a small group of "lasers" that had both a red stripe and a gold stripe, on the same fish. Unfortunately I lost this group before I was able to spawn them and I made the mistake of not photographing them, as soon as I obtained them. These fish were seen "live and in color" by Ian, while visiting my fish room on a trip to the U.S. in, I believe, 2004.

I'd be willing to bet that before I shuffle off my mortal coil, naturally occurring "blue" laser populations will be found in the wild.

If you believe that the local inhabitants of these incredibly poor regions of S. America, collecting Corys for the average price of 5¢ each, have the scientific ability to be genetically altering fish, well - - - - - I just don't know what I can say to sway you.

"I am not accusing anyone of anything, I just find it really strange....... "

You state that you are NOT accusing "anyone of anything," but it sounds as if you are, in a subtle fashion, doing just that. For the sake of intellectual discourse, if you were to be doing that, whom would you accuse and what, exactly, would you accuse them of?

To even allude to such a scenario being remotely plausible is simply a totally unrealistic understanding of the subject matter at hand. - Frank

 

[jelloz]

- Quote edited by Coryologist.

These "Newly Found" cories just happen to come in the same 3 colors that the genetically modified Glofish come in.

I find it hard to believe that 150 years after identifying the plain camoflaged Aeneus catfish of South America, all of a sudden, 3 versions of brightly colored catfish are found? And all three new species just happen to be in the same colors as Glofish?

I am not accusing anyone of anything, I just find it really strange.......

My 2 cents.....

It is very important to understand that there are still areas of the Amazon Basin that have never been explored, especially in relation to something like the local catfish populations. It is estimated that there could be hundreds of unknown species of fish, including Corys in these areas. Suriname, alone may have that many, as it is basically virgin territory for collecting Corys and other species of catfish.

The belief that somehow these fish are either dyed, or genetically altered by man, although a nice "conspiracy theory," is simply absurd. I have kept and spawned all of these color variations. They are naturally occurring species. Additionally, both Ian Fuller and myself have had a very small number of "blue" lasers produced by our green laser spawning groups. The color is subtle, but it is "sky blue" in comparison to their normal green siblings.

I once had a small group of "lasers" that had both a red stripe and a gold stripe, on the same fish. Unfortunately I lost this group before I was able to spawn them and I made the mistake of not photographing them, as soon as I obtained them. These fish were seen "live and in color" by Ian, while visiting my fish room on a trip to the U.S. in, I believe, 2004.

I'd be willing to bet that before I shuffle off my mortal coil, naturally occurring "blue" laser populations will be found in the wild.

If you believe that the local inhabitants of these incredibly poor regions of S. America, collecting Corys for the average price of 5¢ each, have the scientific ability to be genetically altering fish, well - - - - - I just don't know what I can say to sway you.

"I am not accusing anyone of anything, I just find it really strange....... "

You state that you are NOT accusing "anyone of anything," but it sounds as if you are, in a subtle fashion, doing just that. For the sake of intellectual discourse, if you were to be doing that, whom would you accuse and what, exactly, would you accuse them of?

To even allude to such a scenario being remotely plausible is simply a totally unrealistic understanding of the subject matter at hand. - Frank

Frank: Thanks for weighing in on this. I respect your opinion and you knowledge on the subject. You have put the topic to rest.

 

[StrontiumDog]

Thanks for the info Inchworm and Coryologist,

Its always a pleasure to read posts from you, that explains the reasons and why these things happen IE: the biologists are still doing thier work and finding that once a known species are actualy different (does that sound right?)


As too

Frank: Thanks for weighing in on this. I respect your opinion and you knowledge on the subject. You have put the topic to rest.

I don't think the door is quite closed yet

I am not accusing anyone of anything, I just find it really strange.......

This will be the aliens fault, the're always messing with things they should leave alone.

I watched a TV program on some biologists going up through a South American river, going up different tributaries trying to find new species of fish, and they did.

So it wouldn't suprise me if that some of the other popular corys that we keep are actualy different species. They may look very alike but are not, as the above.

 

[Coryologist]

Thanks for the info Inchworm and Coryologist,

Its always a pleasure to read posts from you, that explains the reasons and why these things happen IE: the biologists are still doing thier work and finding that once a known species are actualy different (does that sound right?)

This will be the aliens fault, the're always messing with things they should leave alone.

I watched a TV program on some biologists going up through a South American river, going up different tributaries trying to find new species of fish, and they did.

So it wouldn't suprise me if that some of the other popular corys that we keep are actualy different species. They may look very alike but are not, as the above.

Well, you sorta have the gist of it. Most Corys that have been given a scientific nomenclature are pretty much set in stone, but there are rare exceptions. The problem arises with the "C" and "CW" numbers. A fish may be given a number and then, after the ichthyologists find the time to do the prerequisite research to aid in identification, they may come back and say, "Oh, Mr. Fish Hobbyist, that fish you you have been calling C999 is actually 'Corydoras already-named such and such,' so stop calling it C999."

Another example is the case of what were referred to as long-finned C. paleatus. Once the biologists took the time to do the requisite studies, lo and behold, they declared the fish a new specie and named it C. longipinnis.

Understand that this level of study is way beyond what most hobbyist are able to obtain without significant research of their own and oftentimes, as in the paper describing C. longipinnis, the scientific papers describing a new specie are written in German as they are the ones doing the majority of research, these days. Understand, also - Corys are waaaaaaay down on the priority list of species awaiting to be formally described and many, if not most, will still be carrying "C" or "CW" numbers long after we are pushing up daisies.

I hope this helps. - Frank