I need Answers

[Livy_ann]

Are Honey Gourami really sensitive fish?

I had 6 honey gourami arrive last month from Aua Huna Online.

They were all doing just fine, super active in my 20 gal community tank.

Over the span of a few weeks, they just started dying. 2 in the tank and 1 I found laying at the bottom and would swim upside down. It was a big indicator of swim bladder. It was moved to a smaller tank with treatment but it died overnight.

I have multiple other fish in this tank and have had no issues.

I was left with 3 and yesterday morning 1 had super clamped fins so decided to try treating. I went ahead and moved all 3 of them. Which I now regret
The other seemed normal but I thought treating them was better than not.
These gourami were all very small when I got them(so likely very young) They were eating great but not like super plump, that's also reason why I moved them all as well.
So if anything they were underfed rather than overfeed.

QUARANTINE TREATMENT: Kanaplex, Fungal medication and later added a bit of methylene blue.

(I had just treated my betta with the same medication plus salt as she had clamped fins & doing pretty bad, she is back to normal and is doing fantastic)

So now left with 1, it's back in the community tank.
Seems to be doing fine.

I am 95% sure the 1 died of swim bladder and the current is dying of it. Is it really that common in honey's?

This is so frustrating and it was actually my first time buying fish online ....this really sucks. I wanted healthier fish so decided to try buying online. Unfortunately the price isn't worth it if their not even gonna last a month

TANK INFO:
20gal high(Up & Running since end of 2023)
Tankmates: Platies, Endlers, Cory's, Mollies
Temp: 77-78F
Power filter & 2 sponge filters
Heavily planted + fertilizers
PH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
GH: 3 drops dgh
KH: 14-15 dgh

I am seeing KH is to high could that kill them though?

I just did a water change yesterday I use dechlorinated tap water mainly. We do have a soft water tank!
I have used RO in the past would it be best to go back to mixing the tap & RO

Appreciate any feedback. Please be kind!

 

[MaloK]

You have good chances the gourami your got where living in water with a much lower KH.

If you lower the KH of your source water with RO/DI you will have to increase the GH on the other hand, because it will fall to low.

Also you can't really soften it too much because of your other fishes that likes water harder than gouramis.

 

[Livy_ann]

RO doesn't balance them both out?
Should I use a mineral to increase GH

 

[gwand]

I have had good experiences with Aqua Huna. Sounds like you were overstocked. BTW. Your livebearers need water with a considerably higher GH.

 

[GaryE]

They are very hardy if they arrive disease free.

The wild card is there are 2 species sold as honey gouramis, and one (T, chuna, the original one) seems more robust than the new honey, a form of T labiosa, I suspect. The latter don't seem as tough.

The KH is twice what I bred chuna in, and is high. But I would question if they had a bacterial or viral disease. Even the best sellers buy their fish from someone, and they get surprises too. Swim bladder is a symptom of many diseases and not a disease on its own. It's like a person who suffers from swelling.

I'm not sure you'll ever get clear answers to that situation.

 

[MaloK]

RO doesn't balance them both out?
Should I use a mineral to increase GH

Ro/Di will be very close to 0 GH and 0 KH.

Just to be clear on your readings how many drops of each for GH and KH you have recorded ?

3 drops = 54 ppm GH
15 drops = 269 ppm KH

If you lower the KH with RO, the GH will follow accordingly.

 

[Livy_ann]

I have had good experiences with Aqua Huna. Sounds like you were overstocked. BTW. Your livebearers need water with a considerably higher GH.

It's not overstocked, I have double filtration and the tank has been running smoothly for over a year. Definitely the least of my worries.

I only wanted 3 honey gourami but with Aqua Huna I had to buy 6. The plan was to grow then up and rehome if I needed to.
Also have platy fry growing up and will eventually be rehomed.

 

[Livy_ann]

Ro/Di will be very close to 0 GH and 0 KH.

Just to be clear on your readings how many drops of each for GH and KH you have recorded ?

3 drops = 54 ppm GH
15 drops = 269 ppm KH

If you lower the KH with RO, the GH will follow accordingly.

That is correct.
Should I start with doing 20-30% RO or how much would you recommend to start with?

 

[Livy_ann]

They are very hardy if they arrive disease free.

The wild card is there are 2 species sold as honey gouramis, and one (T, chuna, the original one) seems more robust than the new honey, a form of T labiosa, I suspect. The latter don't seem as tough.

The KH is twice what I bred chuna in, and is high. But I would question if they had a bacterial or viral disease. Even the best sellers buy their fish from someone, and they get surprises too. Swim bladder is a symptom of many diseases and not a disease on its own. It's like a person who suffers from swelling.

I'm not sure you'll ever get clear answers to that situation.

I actually ended up with the original (T chuna) several months back accidentally when I wanted the yellow from a petstore. Unfortunately they both ended up passing in a short amount of time. Sounds like Honeys are just not for me.

Its just strange as I used to have 1 honey and didn't really pay to much attention to water quality and really knew nothing about GH & KH and she lived for over a year.
This has happened a lot with many different fish over the last decade, I knew very little about good water quality just the basics and my fish thrive and have lived 2-3 years. But when I take the time to make sure everything is correct and up to standards I start losing fish....make it make sense lol

 

[MaloK]

That is correct.
Should I start with doing 20-30% RO or how much would you recommend to start with?

At the moment if the fishes (Platies, Endlers, Cory's, Mollies) you have been doing good. I wouldn't change anything.

If your gouramies deaths are caused by a disease, there is no reasons to subject the others to an unneeded water chemistry change.

But if you undertake changing the water chemistry of your tank. Do it at a very slow pace. 10% every few days. And consider that your GH is already low in opposition to your KH.

Most commercial products will raise both GH and KH, if you want to adjust your water be sure to find a product that targets GH and increase calcium and magnesium ions only, to balance your water before adding it to the tank.

I use Salty Shrimp Bee Shrimp Mineral GH+for that purpose.

 

[Fishfunn]

QUARANTINE TREATMENT: Kanaplex, Fungal medication and later added a bit of methylene blue.

How did you medicate, and what fungal medication did you use?
You have to be careful not to simultaneously mix Kanaplex in the same QT with certain medications like methylene blue, etc .

 

[Livy_ann]

How did you medicate, and what fungal medication did you use?
You have to be careful not to simultaneously mix Kanaplex in the same QT with certain medications like methylene blue, etc .

Fungal medication was Maracyn Oxy(didn't use a full dose)
Kanaplex normal amount on bottle
Methylene blue was half the dose the bottle said.

I know certain fish are more sensitive to medictions. I have done multiple medications at once, for betta's mainly and have had great success. But I do think I should have skipped using the methylene blue. Though I do feel like these fish were already to far gone

 

[Livy_ann]

At the moment if the fishes (Platies, Endlers, Cory's, Mollies) you have been doing good. I wouldn't change anything.

If your gouramies deaths are caused by a disease, there is no reasons to subject the others to an unneeded water chemistry change.

But if you undertake changing the water chemistry of your tank. Do it at a very slow pace. 10% every few days. And consider that your GH is already low in opposition to your KH.

Most commercial products will raise both GH and KH, if you want to adjust your water be sure to find a product that targets GH and increase calcium and magnesium ions only, to balance your water before adding it to the tank.

I use Salty Shrimp Bee Shrimp Mineral GH+for that purpose.

Thank you!

I actually have Equilibrium GH mineralizer(forgot it was in my cabinet)
If I added just that and no RO would that help, or does the 10% of RO still need added along with it?

I also have Salty shrimp for both GH/KH could I use that or does it need to be specifically targeted towards GH?

 

[MaloK]

Thank you!

I actually have Equilibrium GH mineralizer(forgot it was in my cabinet)
If I added just that and no RO would that help, or does the 10% of RO still need added along with it?

I also have Salty shrimp for both GH/KH could I use that or does it need to be specifically targeted towards GH?

Before starting to modify the chemistry in your tank you need to go trough a couple steps to create the recipe that will match your target parameters.

Theoretically, You would want to use as much tap water possible to save on RO and additional minerals.

1: You need to assess a base GH and KH that you want resulting in your tank. This is done by choosing a good compromise for Hardness and Alkalinity that is the closest to what your fishes requires.

2: In your situation, Evaluate how much RO water you need to add to your tap water to lower the KH to the level you want. Then calculate and add how much GH+ you need to raise the GH to meet what you need. test the results. Once you have an easily reproducible recipe that always matches your target concentrations.

3: Start slowly with 10% water changes every other day. Do this constantly for 14 water changes. It will take one month to complete a 97% water change and the chemistry in the tank should reflect exactly your recipe once done.

4: If at any point during the process, there are signs of stress with the fishes, stop for a while to make sure there's no shock occurring (even being ready to slowly move back to previous chemistry if needed).

It affects fishes, invertebrates and plants more than we think.

Dropping stuff in tanks to fix water chemistry never finish well.

Slow controlled introduction, under surveillance.

 

[Livy_ann]

Before starting to modify the chemistry in your tank you need to go trough a couple steps to create the recipe that will match your target parameters.

Theoretically, You would want to use as much tap water possible to save on RO and additional minerals.

1: You need to assess a base GH and KH that you want resulting in your tank. This is done by choosing a good compromise for Hardness and Alkalinity that is the closest to what your fishes requires.

2: In your situation, Evaluate how much RO water you need to add to your tap water to lower the KH to the level you want. Then calculate and add how much GH+ you need to raise the GH to meet what you need. test the results. Once you have an easily reproducible recipe that always matches your target concentrations.

3: Start slowly with 10% water changes every other day. Do this constantly for 14 water changes. It will take one month to complete a 97% water change and the chemistry in the tank should reflect exactly your recipe once done.

4: If at any point during the process, there are signs of stress with the fishes, stop for a while to make sure there's no shock occurring (even being ready to slowly move back to previous chemistry if needed).

It affects fishes, invertebrates and plants more than we think.

Dropping stuff in tanks to fix water chemistry never finish well.

Slow controlled introduction, under surveillance.

Thank you for this!
So to clarify don't use the equilibrium yet or not at all until my gh and kh are correct?