I may only have an hour left, help! Sick Betta

[Hmarie37]

Hospital tank. I have been dozing with maracyn and para cleanse (I don’t know if the root is bacterial or a parasite). And have the temp at 82 degrees. I have also doses a bit of salt. He is now doing SO much worse. It’s been 3 days that he’s been in the hospital tank, he’s moving even less and the fin rot is so much worse. I ordered methylene blue and API fin&body cure and that will be here today but I don’t want to overmedicate either. I truly don’t know what else to do at this point. (Please note I’ve been doing low doses of paracleanse and maracyn all 3 days he’s been in this hospital tank). I will try to attach photos but this tank is dark and he’s hiding so it’s hard for even me to see him with my naked eye. At this point he is barely breathing. Should I just use clove oil? He may only have minutes, maybe an hour left at this point.

 

[Hmarie37]

Sorry if this was sporadic I was typing as fast as possible

Hospital tank. I have been dozing with maracyn and para cleanse (I don’t know if the root is bacterial or a parasite). And have the temp at 82 degrees. I have also doses a bit of salt. He is now doing SO much worse. It’s been 3 days that he’s been in the hospital tank, he’s moving even less and the fin rot is so much worse. I ordered methylene blue and API fin&body cure and that will be here today but I don’t want to overmedicate either. I truly don’t know what else to do at this point. (Please note I’ve been doing low doses of paracleanse and maracyn all 3 days he’s been in this hospital tank). I will try to attach photos but this tank is dark and he’s hiding so it’s hard for even me to see him with my naked eye. At this point he is barely breathing. Should I just use clove oil? He may only have minutes, maybe an hour left at this point.

sorry if this was sporadic I was typing as fast as possible

 

[Hmarie37]

It cut the first part out, his original tank is a 10 gallon, 20 nitrate, 0 ammonia and nitrite at the moment symptoms were noticed (lethargy and severe fin rot). I moved him to a 2.5 gallon hospital tank, dosed w salt/maracyn and paracleanse (because I don’t know the root of his fin rot) and have temp at 82 degrees. He’s barely moving and barely breathing at this point.

 

[Lcc86]

What were the initial symptoms and when did they start? If he is gasping at the top it may be an issue with lack of oxygen, you could try a water change without medication to see if it improves but if you think he's suffering it may be best to euthanise.

 

[Naughts]

Was he alone in the 10 gallon? Is the hospital tank cycled, if not what is the water change schedule? What was the logic for using a hospital tank?

 

[Hmarie37]

The 10 gallon is a community tank and heavily planted, his tank mates are 6 black phantom tetras. I used a cycled sponge filter + some items from a cycled tank prior to transferring him there so when I tested parameters in hospital tank everything was 0.

Behavior prior to hospital tank was lethargy and fin rot (it progressed rapidly as two days prior he was perfectly fine and his normal chipper self). I don’t believe it’s lack of oxygen as no other fish are gasping for air, he’s not doing much of that himself either, it just appears that way in the photo.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Right now he's in a chemical soup of different medications mixed together? Can see from the foamy surface that there are a lot of meds in there.

I'd do a large water change with just fresh clean water, no meds. They're not helping, and may be the problem. I'm sorry about this... it's rough to lose a fish, and see them like that. If the large clean, no meds or chemicals besides a declorinator.

Totally understandable when you have an ailing fish to want to try any product that might work, but I'm afraid that some products are snake oil, or do more harm than help. They also stress fish, even if it's the right medication targeting and treating the right problem, it's still stressful for them. Just like humans can have side effects like an upset stomach when taking antibiotics, you know? So if he'd been bombarded with a bunch of different meds that are now mixing together and creating a chemical soup in his water, it's almost certainly making it worse rather than better, and clean fresh water is the best first aid.

In your shoes I might even plop and drop him into clean fresh declorinated water that's temp matched to his tank temp, or do a 100% water change in two back to back large water changes, to see if removing all those chemicals helps.

But! Want to stress that I'm not blaming you for adding them, or that he's dying as a result of that - it's more likely that you were unlucky and bought a fish with an illness or genetics that are just very poor, and there was nothing you could do for him. I'm afraid that mass farmed and store bought bettas are soooo unhealthy now. Often already infested with disease when you buy them, weak, inbred stock, badly shipped and stored in the US in those tiny cups... bah. So if you do lose him, don't blame yourself.

 

[Hmarie37]

Was he alone in the 10 gallon? Is the hospital tank cycled, if not what is the water change schedule? What was the logic for using a hospital tank?

The 10 gallon is a community tank and heavily planted, his tank mates are 6 black phantom tetras. I used a cycled sponge filter + some items from a cycled tank prior to transferring him there so when I tested parameters in hospital tank everything was 0.

 

[Hmarie37]

Right now he's in a chemical soup of different medications mixed together? Can see from the foamy surface that there are a lot of meds in there.

I'd do a large water change with just fresh clean water, no meds. They're not helping, and may be the problem. I'm sorry about this... it's rough to lose a fish, and see them like that. If the large clean, no meds or chemicals besides a declorinator.

Totally understandable when you have an ailing fish to want to try any product that might work, but I'm afraid that some products are snake oil, or do more harm than help. They also stress fish, even if it's the right medication targeting and treating the right problem, it's still stressful for them. Just like humans can have side effects like an upset stomach when taking antibiotics, you know? So if he'd been bombarded with a bunch of different meds that are now mixing together and creating a chemical soup in his water, it's almost certainly making it worse rather than better, and clean fresh water is the best first aid.

In your shoes I might even plop and drop him into clean fresh declorinated water that's temp matched to his tank temp, or do a 100% water change in two back to back large water changes, to see if removing all those chemicals helps.

But! Want to stress that I'm not blaming you for adding them, or that he's dying as a result of that - it's more likely that you were unlucky and bought a fish with an illness or genetics that are just very poor, and there was nothing you could do for him. I'm afraid that mass farmed and store bought bettas are soooo unhealthy now. Often already infested with disease when you buy them, weak, inbred stock, badly shipped and stored in the US in those tiny cups... bah. So if you do lose him, don't blame yourself.

Yes I did feel as if I was over medicating but when only adding the salt he seemed the same. I’m scared to even do a water change at this point, he’s barely reacting to me or the water movement. I truly appreciate your comment I feel so terrible for how rapidly he declined

 

[Naughts]

ehavior prior to hospital tank was lethargy and fin rot (it progressed rapidly as two days prior he was perfectly fine and his normal chipper self).

That rapid onset does sound like fin rot and the picture looks like it.

The stress of the overstocked and inappropriately stocked 10g community tank will have contributed to the disease. Look at seriouslyfish.com for species requirements.

As the finrot has reached the body it will need aggressive treatment. Formalin or antibiotics via food might give him a slim chance. Not sure if any of your meds have formalin?
Low doses, mix and match, or 'a bit of' won't help I'm afraid.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Yes I did feel as if I was over medicating but when only adding the salt he seemed the same. I’m scared to even do a water change at this point, he’s barely reacting to me or the water movement. I truly appreciate your comment I feel so terrible for how rapidly he declined

Like I said, I understand the urge to throw in meds, it comes from a caring place and wanting to save him, and meds are expensive! So I know it's because you care and want him to survive, and you're not alone, so many people have the same urge and do the same thing, so you're far from the first to do it. Heck, my fish cupboard has some medications I bought in a panic, but didn't wind up using, or only used once. Most have a few knocking around for the same reasons!

It's hard when a fish is sick, since we can't pop them in a carrier and take them to a vet. So we do the best we can with the info we have.
But bettas are probably the number one fish we get emergency threads about, often without being able to save the fish, I'm afraid. The ones from stores are so sickly, weak, prone to tumours, fin rot, those heavy fins dragging around, lethargy, dropsy- you name it. Sometimes that fish might look okay in the store, but is already doomed before you buy it, and if someone can keep a fish store betta alive for more than a year, then I consider that a success and they've been lucky, and done well.

When you say he won't respond to you, don't pester or touch him. Do the water changes on the other side of the tank from him and leave him be - that chemical soup won't be helping - just use a cup/jug/small container of some kind that isn't contaminated with anything to remove half of the water. Then top the tank back up with fresh dechlorinated and temperature matched water. Then repeat. There will still be some chemical traces in there, and running some carbon in the filter for a while will remove those, but those water changes alone will remove a lot. And again, fresh clean water is the best first aid, no matter what the issue is. You'll also need to run that carbon in the filter to remove the previous medications before adding anything else that you said is arriving today, or again, it'll be a chemical soup.

When did you get him? And the tetras? How long have they been in the same tank?

The rapid onset of two days isn't usual for fin rot. Sadly, he doesn't look good. It might even be something internal that you cannot fix. I've never kept phantom tetra personally, but they're a bit too big for a ten gallon, really need a larger group, and some tetras can be nippy and bully other fish if not enough members of their own species. Then Bettas are fighting fish. Solitary and territorial, and I can easily imagine those fish crammed together fighting and nipping, even if you haven't witnessed it. Injuries from other fish to his fins and likely internally since he's fading so fast and onset was so rapid seems more likely to me.

If he does rally, then keeping him in the 2.5g alone would be much better and less stressful/risky for him, or any other betta. They're a fiercely territorial and solitary fish that don't like or need company. If he is passing away or can recover, the water changes are the first step either way. He'll be more comfortable not breathing and swimming in a chemical soup, and will either recover, or pass away in comfort at least.

No shade intended at all in my comments, BTW! Trying to be helpful, no blame aimed at you, just trying to help, I promise! I'm sorry you're experiencing the hardest part of the hobby already. You can have a successful tank, just need some advice and solid resources about stocking, like @Naughts said, and we're here to help.

I hope he does recover, but even if he doesn't, please don't be too hard on yourself, or think about giving up the hobby. You clearly love your fish and want the best for them, have done a lot of research, and we've all made mistakes, there's a steep learning curve in this hobby. That's why forums like this exist! So we can help each other out and learn.