I don't know what else to do - my Dojo are dying.

[Jan Cavalieri]

About 6 weeks ago I finally got around to filling and cycling my new 90 gallon acrylic tank. By adding bacteria to the cycling process it took about 3 weeks off the time it normally takes, but this is a big aquarium. I followed the instructions on this forum and after I got to a point where adding Ammonia made it "disappear" overnight slightly raising the nitrates, I did that 3 days in a row - perfectly cycled. Did a minor water change, and then just added my 4 darling DoJo. The did absolutely great in the tank and we did another water change about a week later of about 70%. Unfortunately the "white water algae" I had been fighting for over a year when they were in a 50 gallon tank followed me to the new tank. We didn't use ANY of the old media (that's why I did a full cycle) and we didn't add any of the plastic flowers but added some fresh rosette-like floating plants to all my tanks. In my 29 gallon tank I have about 11 Gourami and 5 Pleco. No problems other than some aggression like I've never seen in a male Gourami (I will likely execute him soon - he is stressing the entire tank and several Gourami have died.) They don't handle stress well. Oh the new filter is a Fluval 407. That was keeping the water clean. So so much for a 90 gallon tank and an expensive filter getting rid of the white cloud disease.

So the white water issue has never hurt the DoJo, I had to remove a bunch of dying rainbow fish to a different aquarium where they managed to stress out and kill all my Gourami (although some were of max age). They will go into the 50 gallon tank

But this morning I woke up late to the doorbell, lost my Oxygen cord attachment and was simply dying on the kitchen floor trying to get it out from under the refrigerator. Finally did, and calmed down after about 1/2 hour. I had some procedure done on my lower back and hips the day before and was told to take it easy, mostly in bed or sofa. So the first day i felt great - now after all the Dojo excitement I'm hurting my back.

Ran a water test: First time Ammonia was 4.0 - Yikes, but all other values were normal. Obviously the cycling couldn't handle the addition of the new ammonia makers - 3 large, 1 small Dojo The little one was far past reviving but the 18" male was pale - I started compressions and mouth blows. Got a very quiet heart beat several times but not long enough to sustain him. More breathes, more compressions - eventually after about an hour I couldn't get a heartbeat of any kind so just stopped trying plus he never did try to breathe on his own,. The little one was stiff as a board. The other two that are still alive are fighting the top of the water trying to get enough oxygen, so I added 2 capfuls of AmGuard (by Seachem) and 2 capfuls of Prime to protect against the ammonia. Took another reading got the ammonia reading 1.0 better than a 4 but still a killer. Now the 3rd of the 4th Dojo is struggling on his back to breathe. I added two air stones hoping that would help make them more comfortable. I just pulled anotother gallon of water out and mixed it with AmGuard, Prime and a half of bottle of biological media. I'll test it again in a few minutes. One seems pretty healthy but the other one keeps turning on his back and laying at the bottom of the tank. He is just barely alive. I think they are both exhausted trying to keep up with their oxygen needs (they are labramith fish with multiple swim platters) So they may be just taking a rest - like I am. I noticed a number of large pieces of stringy white poop so something was going on before this happened,

So if they all 4 should die - should we empty the tank, scrub it down and get rid of all the media in the canister filter. i just love DoJo's but I think fish this size would probably do better in a 200 gallon tank or larger but I'm not investing in anything that big. Besides the huge expense - maintenance would kill me. I don't dare put these last two living Dojos in by my 29 gallon tank - they would kill everything with their poop. They are back up at the top of the tank taking deep breathes so they may make it yet.

Where did I go wrong? Any ideas on how to keep the last two alive with out killing my back? This damn tank and stand and even using a footstool and my hands cannot reach the bottom of the tank. I have to use nets and boards to raise them up. I have a HUGE net but not huge enough for these two. I'm back in pain, I just want to give all this up and cry, but that's just not an option for me. 5:30 and I was just going outside to feed the noisy and waiting stray cats that I feed and water. The Racoons got into a pot of mums last night and threw them all over the deck. My breathing sounds like pneumonia but I will not spend 6 hours in the ER and wait to find out only to be given a pound of meds and sent home because they are too full - but come back if I think I need Bi-pap or to be on pressurized oxygen. I refuse to be on a ward with all the nutso people that refused to get vaccinated. "You can't take my right away to kill you with my COVID" (Pres. Biden commenting on the non-vaccers.) I start feeling like they should kick out any case where the person made a choice to not get vaccinated and caused him or herself to take up a much needed hospital bed. Cruel? Maybe - but I don't think we all should have to live with their free choices in a situation as serious as this.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

Really sorry for your losses.

First thing I would say is make sure you take care of yourself first. It's great having fish and I get they can make life more enjoyable but they aren't worth doing yourself harm for.

On to the problem itself. Its an odd one. If it was cycled I would have thought it would have been ok but honestly I've never been in to big fish so don't know if they would produce more ammonia than you would be using in a normal dishless cycle. 4 big fish in a 90G sounds reasonable to me but I don't know anything about these fish so could be wrong.

The only other thing that springs to mind that would immediately explain it would be if not enough ammonia was used during cycling.

What % strength ammonia did you use and how many ml did you use?

Did you check when you first added the ammonia that it went up to 3ppm?

Fingers crossed for the ones still left and for yourself to be feeling better soon.

 

[Ellabee]

About 6 weeks ago I finally got around to filling and cycling my new 90 gallon acrylic tank. By adding bacteria to the cycling process it took about 3 weeks off the time it normally takes, but this is a big aquarium. I followed the instructions on this forum and after I got to a point where adding Ammonia made it "disappear" overnight slightly raising the nitrates, I did that 3 days in a row - perfectly cycled. Did a minor water change, and then just added my 4 darling DoJo. The did absolutely great in the tank and we did another water change about a week later of about 70%. Unfortunately the "white water algae" I had been fighting for over a year when they were in a 50 gallon tank followed me to the new tank. We didn't use ANY of the old media (that's why I did a full cycle) and we didn't add any of the plastic flowers but added some fresh rosette-like floating plants to all my tanks. In my 29 gallon tank I have about 11 Gourami and 5 Pleco. No problems other than some aggression like I've never seen in a male Gourami (I will likely execute him soon - he is stressing the entire tank and several Gourami have died.) They don't handle stress well. Oh the new filter is a Fluval 407. That was keeping the water clean. So so much for a 90 gallon tank and an expensive filter getting rid of the white cloud disease.

So the white water issue has never hurt the DoJo, I had to remove a bunch of dying rainbow fish to a different aquarium where they managed to stress out and kill all my Gourami (although some were of max age). They will go into the 50 gallon tank

But this morning I woke up late to the doorbell, lost my Oxygen cord attachment and was simply dying on the kitchen floor trying to get it out from under the refrigerator. Finally did, and calmed down after about 1/2 hour. I had some procedure done on my lower back and hips the day before and was told to take it easy, mostly in bed or sofa. So the first day i felt great - now after all the Dojo excitement I'm hurting my back.

Ran a water test: First time Ammonia was 4.0 - Yikes, but all other values were normal. Obviously the cycling couldn't handle the addition of the new ammonia makers - 3 large, 1 small Dojo The little one was far past reviving but the 18" male was pale - I started compressions and mouth blows. Got a very quiet heart beat several times but not long enough to sustain him. More breathes, more compressions - eventually after about an hour I couldn't get a heartbeat of any kind so just stopped trying plus he never did try to breathe on his own,. The little one was stiff as a board. The other two that are still alive are fighting the top of the water trying to get enough oxygen, so I added 2 capfuls of AmGuard (by Seachem) and 2 capfuls of Prime to protect against the ammonia. Took another reading got the ammonia reading 1.0 better than a 4 but still a killer. Now the 3rd of the 4th Dojo is struggling on his back to breathe. I added two air stones hoping that would help make them more comfortable. I just pulled anotother gallon of water out and mixed it with AmGuard, Prime and a half of bottle of biological media. I'll test it again in a few minutes. One seems pretty healthy but the other one keeps turning on his back and laying at the bottom of the tank. He is just barely alive. I think they are both exhausted trying to keep up with their oxygen needs (they are labramith fish with multiple swim platters) So they may be just taking a rest - like I am. I noticed a number of large pieces of stringy white poop so something was going on before this happened,

So if they all 4 should die - should we empty the tank, scrub it down and get rid of all the media in the canister filter. i just love DoJo's but I think fish this size would probably do better in a 200 gallon tank or larger but I'm not investing in anything that big. Besides the huge expense - maintenance would kill me. I don't dare put these last two living Dojos in by my 29 gallon tank - they would kill everything with their poop. They are back up at the top of the tank taking deep breathes so they may make it yet.

Where did I go wrong? Any ideas on how to keep the last two alive with out killing my back? This damn tank and stand and even using a footstool and my hands cannot reach the bottom of the tank. I have to use nets and boards to raise them up. I have a HUGE net but not huge enough for these two. I'm back in pain, I just want to give all this up and cry, but that's just not an option for me. 5:30 and I was just going outside to feed the noisy and waiting stray cats that I feed and water. The Racoons got into a pot of mums last night and threw them all over the deck. My breathing sounds like pneumonia but I will not spend 6 hours in the ER and wait to find out only to be given a pound of meds and sent home because they are too full - but come back if I think I need Bi-pap or to be on pressurized oxygen. I refuse to be on a ward with all the nutso people that refused to get vaccinated. "You can't take my right away to kill you with my COVID" (Pres. Biden commenting on the non-vaccers.) I start feeling like they should kick out any case where the person made a choice to not get vaccinated and caused him or herself to take up a much needed hospital bed. Cruel? Maybe - but I don't think we all should have to live with their free choices in a situation as serious as this.

Hi. I love my dojo loaches. I have several. The oldest is 7 years old. First, what sort of substrate are you using? Second my suggestion is to use MICROBE-LIFT SPECIAL BLEND WATER CARE
It’s beneficial bacteria that cleans and clears water reduces nitrates and reduces maintenance. It instantly cycles aquariums. Follow the instructions. AND MICROBE-LIFT XTREME WATER CONDITIONER.
It removes ammonia detoxifies heavy metals. For and parasitic diseases and NATURAL IMMUNE BOOSTER MICROBE-LIFT HERBTANA IS AWESOME. These products are great. I don’t use anything else. I purchase mine at Petco. I threw out all of the chemicals that I used to use. Since I started using these products my water test perfectly. Also Dojo’s need caves and places to hide. They do not do well on rock substrates. They need a soft sand. They can ingest small rocks while foraging.

 

[Ellabee]

Hi. I love my dojo loaches. I have several. The oldest is 7 years old. First, what sort of substrate are you using? Second my suggestion is to use MICROBE-LIFT SPECIAL BLEND WATER CARE
It’s beneficial bacteria that cleans and clears water reduces nitrates and reduces maintenance. It instantly cycles aquariums. Follow the instructions. AND MICROBE-LIFT XTREME WATER CONDITIONER.
It removes ammonia detoxifies heavy metals. For and parasitic diseases and NATURAL IMMUNE BOOSTER MICROBE-LIFT HERBTANA IS AWESOME. These products are great. I don’t use anything else. I purchase mine at Petco. I threw out all of the chemicals that I used to use. Since I started using these products my water test perfectly. Also Dojo’s need caves and places to hide. They do not do well on rock substrates. They need a soft sand. They can ingest small rocks while foraging.

Also want to add, try not to mix and match chemicals. Rinse the filter media often.

 

[Colin_T]

I would say do a massive water change but that's out of the question unless your helper can come out. The simplest solution would be to scoop the remaining fish out and put them in another tank. Keep feeding down to a minimum and hope they pull through.

Is there any services that can come and check on you each day to make sure you don't end up on the floor again?
Most states have a free service that can send someone out each day to make sure you are ok and haven't fallen over and are in need of help. Perhaps see if there is.

Be careful Jan.

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

Update - 3rd test of Ammonia and now it's back up to 4.0. First test was 4,0 (added all the chemicals), 2nd test was down to 1.0, added more chemicals and the biologicals - Ammonia goes back UP again to 4.o. Nitrites have remained zero throughout all three tests.

Any suggestions on what to do now. Obviously the AmGuard isn't working which explains why the bottle was only 1/4 full - I've obviously tried it in the past without success. I guess I'll give the biologicals (Testra Safe Start plus) and Prime to get them through the night and add more prime tomorrow. I can't bury the old loaches because I can't dig with a shovel right now - guess they'll go in with the garbage. My old assistant that was gardening for me because she refuses to get vaccinated, is currently hanging down at the hospital with her father who is dying of Covid right now. Don't think I'll ask for any more landscaping either, maybe this will make her re-think the vaccine - and she has 2 very young children to care for - what are they going to do with them if mommy gets sick and they'll likely get it also. I'm so fed up with this generation of "me, me, me" - it's not even one generation - it's all of the stupid psycho ones. And all the fake news seems to be telling everybody that the 700,000 deaths from this was due to the vaccine - CoVID is just a "minor' illness,

 

[Colin_T]

Look for Wardley's Ammogon or Zeolite. It's the same stuff but by different companies. It is a white granule that removes ammonia from the water. You put some in a mesh bag and rinse it to remove the dust. Then put the bag of Ammogon/ Zeolite in the filter and monitor the ammonia levels. It will remove ammonia until it's full and then you recharge it or replace it with some fresh stuff. You recharge it by soaking it in salt water for 24-48 hours. It can then be re-used.

Add a heap of floating plants to the tank and give them 16 hours of light per day. They will help to use up the ammonia.

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

Thanks to all your kind responses. The 3rd DoJo died last night about 2 am. Amazingly the 4th one is still alive. I'd say this is ammonia poisoning. Gills are reddish and skin is looking mottled. I get the ammonia down to 1.0 and then it jumps up to 4.0 (like it is right now). Even with fewer fish. I just removed about 60% of the water - that's 2 - 20 gallon Hefty tubs worth of water. They substrate is sand.

During cycling I got the ammonia up to 3.0 quite easily and the first cycle took a while (as usual), once I ran out of ammonia and nitrites were down I dosed it with a second dose of ammonia of about 2.5 (it's hard to tell on these kits the difference between a 2.5 and a 3 - they only mark of for the 2.5 level) . It ran right through the ammonia and nitrites so I dosed a 3rd time and got zero ammonia and nitrites 3 days in a row. All other values were normal - PH a little high at 7.4 but that's not unusual - I have a chemical I use to reduce our tap water from 9.4 to 7,0 - it gets it pretty close. Did a partial water changed and added fresh water back in - everything was perfect, so I added the Dojos and the water stayed white after an hour of adding the Dojo's - it was the ugly white algae disease again. Did another partial water change - no impact. I didn't even think of checking the ammonia because I've never had a problem with it in my 50 gallon (now empty and very dirty. My assistant helped with a lot of the water changes. I also have had great luck with Tetra Safe Plus on biologicals and bad results with others so these bacteria seem to like my water. Anyway - So it wasn't until the sudden deaths that I checked the ammonia and saw it was 4.0. Got it down to 1.0 and added more ammonia reducer and it went back up to 4 again. I had removed all the dead bodies so they weren't causing this persistant ammonia spikes but I believe their poop puts out a LOT of ammonia which would explain why I now still have one - but he is getting so tired. I ran down some bubbler ball to circulate the oxygen better and that is helping some but his skin and gills are so damaged I wonder I would euthanize if he hasn't tried harder than any of them to say alive.

Getting ready to remix new water and add it back in - it should reduce the ammonia significantly along with my ammonia guard. I'll let you know. My assistant works a regular full-time job in a factory - Sunday is family day (father-in-law is a minister) and Monday is his only other day off. So he should be here by then to to a total water change if needed. With only one Dojo left that should reduce the amount of ammonia output significantly.

I do usually have my iphone with me at all times - can't say how many times I've used Suri to dial 911 for me - The doorbell woke me up so I got out of bed too fast. rertrieved two packages and then got unplugged by my refrigerator pulling on my cord. I usually have that metal plate covered in tape so it can't do that - not sure what happened. Yeah as far as checking on me daily, I'm lucky to get my daughter to see me weekly but they do a lot for me - just not too wild about the aquarium now that I have such big tanks - plus one or both usually are working call-back pay on weekends and they have a baby to care for so their schedule is pretty intense. Seems like yesterday I was calling my mother daily for 10 yrs as well as getting her groceries and other stuff and having her over for Sunday dinner - and she didn't think THAT was enough attention, She died about 3 months after entering a nursing home (her pets finally passed away so she didn't have any responsibilities) but laying around all day without a hobby or interest, unable to drive etc., made her go downhill fast. I'm actually also in Palliative care and they call a couple times a week, plus my therapist once a week so I'm getting pretty good care - this was just like a stream of disasters, cataract surgery, back surgery and problem fish tanks all in the same week or so. I'm not usually that much of a mess. But I don't bounce back like I used to. Thanks for caring. There are so many people out there like me it's amazing and I'm only 60 but I was diagnosed at age 38 - they still don't know why so young. Just started oxygen right after my mother died and it is such a pain to hassle with.

 

[Colin_T]

If you want to get ammonia, nitrite or nitrate levels down fast, do a massive (80-90%) or complete water change. It is better for the fish to be in water that is free of ammonia than in water with an ammonia reading. The big water changes dilute the ammonia more effectively.

The other option is to drop the pH below 7.0 (6.9 is fine) and the ammonia becomes significantly less toxic in acid water compared to water with a pH above 7.0.

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

Well this is interesting. I decided to test the ammonia levels in our regular tap water and it comes up to 1.0 PPM, I replaced as much water in the tank as I physically could (after adding my PH adjuster, prime and the ammonia lowering chemical (I'm all out now). Guess what, even with a significant water change it measures 4.0 ppm STILL. I give up, my back can't take any more of this and I still have my little stray cats to feed (I don't even like cats that much - other than mine) but I can't see anything starve to death. I buy the better cat foods and while still thin, their eyes are bright, no fleas, and their hair coats beautiful. Even the Racoons that eat the leftovers at 2 am look healthier - they just had a new batch of tiny little babies, I'm probably not helping with population control. I had a large dog container of plastic dog toys on my back deck- just couldn't deal with it after my basset hound died. They've pulled all the toys out of there (the best ones of course.) Now I know where they live (an old shack at the far rear of my property.) Big pile of toys there LOL. The babies are sweet but don't ever mess with an adult raccoon - they are seriously nasty. (my former MIL was a wildlife rehabilitator so I've fed lots of baby raccoons and possum. They had an old male cocker spanial and the babies all thought he was their mother so you'd find them all curled up together. There is still wonderful things in this world - just NOT AMMONIA.

Thanks all - I think I've done all I can. Are there any other ways to rapidly reduce Ammonia on the market that have worked for you since this one isn't doing anything. I'll keep adding Prime every day to keep the ammonia at bay temporarily and will have my assistant do another water change on Monday if this loach is still alive. If not, then the 90 gallon tank will be sold, even though I just spent a fortune on it - it's just too big for me to deal with. I have the only other tank I could put him in right now is 29 gallons and full of fish and he loves to eat fish. Their aquarium is clouding up too - I just don't want to know. I''ve also got a couple of stunning betta's (the online store sent me two by accident) - they were, of course, the expensive one and I had to buy another 5 gallon tank for the second one - but what human friendly fish they are!

Colin - just saw your note. I can drop the PH by 1 - no problem, but I just finished a 60 gallon water change and with all the substrate in there - that was probably closer to 70%l They always have little red noses from burrowing in the sand. So I use no more gravel. They still prefer to sleep on my flat slate rocks even though I have two lovely padded wood platforms for them. I also wonder if they've been eating too many roots of the plants on top of the water - I"ve never seen them do it but they'll try to eat anything (I'm still missing my "fish safe" Spongebob toy but I think they just buried him ) I have never seen any leftover food in a DoJo tank - they will eat themselves to death.

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

I do believe I have some Zeolite that I purchased for the cannister filter - then couldn't fit it in I had so many different kinds of filtration media. It's so hard to stop shopping when I'm on Amazon I see so many things I might need. So i'll make up a bag of it and throw it in the tank. While I almost wish it was just over - I'm not giving up on him he has been working so hard to stay alive. I'm noticing the fish in my other tank have white cloudy water as well - what is going ON??? I've been making a huge effort to feed less and all I'm getting is sick or dying fish. I know I don't test the water frequently - when I first set up a tank I do it frequently for a few weeks - then once it's constantly normal all the time I just leave it alone and keep up with the weekly water changes. I think getting this 90 gallon tank was a mistake - they did better (due to the bacteria built up) in the 50 gallon tank and this 90 gallon just takes me hours to get all the water out and back in. Only good news is that the canister filter is easier to clean. Thanks again !

 

[OliveFish05]

@Jan Cavalieri i am so sorry for everything going on right now for you, with the fish and your health. If I weren’t 15 hrs away, I would be more than happy to help you with water changes. Vaccinated people who take COVID seriously are so few and far between I have no advice to offer, and while it’s not much, I know it can be nice sometimes to know someone cares

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

Hey half my friends hate me for my views on COVID. I think sometimes they don't know what it's like to be terribly ill - and not just for you (because you're pretty much out of it) but for your loved ones. Years ago I caught H1N1 - my immunes system was compromised from years on prednisone so the flu shot didn't work, plus I caught a new strain of it two years post epidemic. I spent two weeks on BiPap in critical condition. I just remember resisting it after a while and the threatening me with a ventilator if I didn't cooperate with the BiPap. I just slept most of the time but my poor daughter had cold symptoms so she wasn't allowed to see me and it just broke her heart (and she's a very cool collected person) because she was sure I was going to die and she wouldn't get to say goodbye. I had no idea she cared that much. Poor girl. I was with my grandmother and my father when they both passed away - it was hard to do but I'm so glad I could talk to them even if they didn't understand me. Missed being with my mother by about 15 minutes. Have had so many pets euthanized and worked in a research lab where one of the duties was chopping the heads off and collecting the blood, watching that head in the sink just continue to blink not yet realizing he was dead (this is the primary reason I didn't finish my dissertation - I just wasn't cut out for animal research. )

The fathers of two friends of mine are in the ICU with covid one on a ventilator and one on bipap. Neither one immunized. I feel like I'm catching pneumonia again this year but I refuse to go sit in an ER full of fools for not getting vaccinated. Their "rights" should not impinge on mine or anybody elses - wasn't that the argument made for making smokers go outside to smoke? These two dads also are both heavy smokers and heavy drinkers and obese. I was once a smoker and I'm paying for the damage I did to my lungs (that and a number of chemical lab accidents, those college kids we we were working with were so sloppy and they were all judged to be good medical school candidates - that's frightening!

I have added the Zeolite. I remember using this and rinsing it out in bleach each week. By the time it had exhausted it's use I couldn't remember what the heck I had put in those little bags (I had about bought the store out of everything that looked useful when I first started this hobby because it reminded me of the fun part of working in a lab, but it's starting to turn into a big nightmare too.

I already had mounds of these cool lilypad/rosette looking things covering the water but I had to take enough out so they could get to the top of the tank to get some air (they aren't always the brightest fish in the tank - just the biggest! Their roots do make a mess though and I think the DoJo have been eating the roots. I havent prepared peeled peas for them for a while (man, that's an act of love).

Take care and thanks for the nice thoughts. I'm going to finish my other vanilla hostess zinger - that's all I've eaten today. But I may have some good pasta salad too. Finally got my cat's litter box changed - she knows the schedule and I wasn't following it. Had to take some morphine and stand in front of a fan to catch my breath. Wish I could have some Scotch on the rocks or even a lovely big sangria but that would not be wise. Plus I have a gas stove (not a good mix with oxygen) so I need to be paying attention - I've caught my long hair on fire twice now. If it wasn't so much to convert to electric I'd pay for it but my landlord won't. I do love cooking with gas - other than the danger of blowing myself up of course.

Peace and love everybody and thanks for all the help and support - I feel pretty lost and lonely sometimes, I was mostly homebound before the pandemic and it gets old.

 

[vanalisa]

Wow. You certainly have been given more than your fair share of things that hurt---not just physically. If you'll accept I'm sending you a virtual hug. A good long one.

 

[Colin_T]

I'm noticing the fish in my other tank have white cloudy water as well - what is going ON??? I've been making a huge effort to feed less and all I'm getting is sick or dying fish.

Reduce the feeding some more
Feed them once every couple of days. They won't starve, seriously. They are better off slightly hungry than dying from ammonia poisoning caused by filter problems, a dumb water company, and too much food.

Contact your water supply company and tell them there is ammonia in the tap water and to get their act together. They are putting too much ammonia in the water when they make the chloramine.