I Apologize

[chicklette]

Well I have told a lot of people Nitrates should be kept below 20ppm. I have read this numerous times on other forums and web sights they should be kept below 20ppm.

So I guess I was wrong suggesting this to other people. So I apologize for telling people this.

What are the nitrate levels that you need to be concerned about?

So once again I really do apologize, I got the wrong info from other forums and web sights.

Here is a web sight that I got my info from

<a href="http/www.pozzani.co.uk/water-filters-185/product_info.html" target="_blank">http/www.pozzani.co.uk/water-filters-185/product_info.html</a>

Levels in excess of 20ppm (parts-per-million) may cause harm to your fish, and tap water can contain upto 50ppm. Therefore, in order to minimise the stress caused to the fish, many people choose to remove nitrates prior to filling or topping up their tanks. This also helps the bacteria break down the nitrates present in your tank's filter and gravel bed as the level that they have to deal with remains manageable.

<a href="http/au.answers.yahoo.com/answers2/front...08090830AAKAUoa" target="_blank">http/au.answers.yahoo.com/answers2/front...08090830AAKAUoa</a>

would do more frequent water changes, and if you can afford it, get a bigger tank. your nitrates are a little too high (you should keep nitrates preferably at 20ppm--no higher than 40 ppm).

your tank would be way too small for most fish species.

[URL="http/home-and-tanked.com/nitrates.html"]http/home-and-tanked.com/nitrates.html[/URL]

 

[Larissa]

I have always thought that levels around 50 are a safe max. But of course it depends on your fish. (For example rams need low nitrates between 0 and 20, I believe, with nitraties between 0 and 10 being optimal.) However, less sensitive fish are very capable of living in nitrate up to 100, I think - although I do not believe this is recomended for an extended period of time since there might be long term effects of high nitrate on fish. HTH.
-Larissa

 

[MartinD]

My personal rule is that nitrates never go above 10ppm in my tanks.

There's no harm in telling people to keep their Nitrates below 20ppm - it's healthy and makes for good, clean water.
At the same time, many people have tanks running with higher levels (some around 50ppm) and they don't have too many problems, if any at all.

My 2p's worth

 

[cossie0]

The Nitrates in my tap water comes out at 30 so its difficult to keep it at any less than 40. I would love to have low Nitrate tap water.

 

[MartinD]

The Nitrates in my tap water comes out at 30 so its difficult to keep it at any less than 40. I would love to have low Nitrate tap water.

Case in point - some people have high nitrate content in their tap water.


chicklette - don't feel the need to offer an apology. At the end of the day this is a forum with experts and amateurs alike. I'm by no means an expert but i'm not a total newbie either. I would always advise people to keep their nitrate levels down, it's personal preference. As with other people, they suggest raising temperature for ich then meds as a last resort. Others will say get straight in with the meds and that raising the temperature does nothing.

It comes down to personal preference and experience as to what works for you. If you keep your levels below 20ppm and you're fish are healthy, then you've got good clean water. All the better for your fish, I say

 

[chicklette]

chicklette - don't feel the need to offer an apology. At the end of the day this is a forum with experts and amateurs alike. I'm by no means an expert but i'm not a total newbie either. I would always advise people to keep their nitrate levels down, it's personal preference. As with other people, they suggest raising temperature for ich then meds as a last resort. Others will say get straight in with the meds and that raising the temperature does nothing.

It comes down to personal preference and experience as to what works for you. If you keep your levels below 20ppm and you're fish are healthy, then you've got good clean water. All the better for your fish, I say

Okay thanks. I guess there would be no harm telling them to keep their nitrates below 20ppm. I THINK the max is 40ppm. That is when it can cause problems. I guess it really comes down to a personal preference. I just thought I was giving the wrong info out,

 

[Colin_T]

Such a nice person apologising for being right. You shouldn't have bothered.
It is definitely best to keep the nitrates as low as possible. Below 20ppm is great because it encourages people to do water changes and not overstock tanks. And it also encourages fish to breed. Fish don't naturally occur in waterways with high nitrates so the lower they are, the better.
Fish do have the ability to survive in water with very high nitrates (up to 200ppm) but it isn't good for them long term. If you add a fish to a tank with high nitrates, and that fish came from a tank with low nitrates, you can kill the fish.
Besides discouraging the fish from breeding, high nitrates can make fish nervous and skittish.
For the people with nitrates in their tap water they are unlucky and have to make do with what they have. Some people use reverse osmosis water to eliminate the problem. Others just bare with it. If they keep their levels below 50ppm then the fish should be fine.
Corals and many invertebrates will not tolerate high levels and should be kept in water with nitrate levels below 20ppm.
There are denitrating filters that go on tanks and break the nitrates down into nitrogen gas and other components. They can be helpful in keeping the levels low. There are also nitrate absorbing granules that can be used to. Live plants will use the nitrates in the water to grow.

 

[backtotropical]

The most recent research i have heard of suggests that most fish can be kept in nitrates of up to 400ppm with no long-term effects. I agree that it is best practice to keep nitrate in line with the tap water, but certainly saying that nitrate must be kept below 20ppm or 40ppm is incorrect. Some tap water in the UK has higher nitrate content than that.

If anyone can quote any scientific research which suggests otherwise, i'd be very interested to read it.

I do agree that this need not apply to corals and other inverts, or salt water set ups.

 

[waterdrop]

What about plants? Isn't nitrate a positive for them, up to a point? (I'm inexperienced, so I'm asking this as a direct question, not arguing for higher nitrate levels.)

Did anyone catch Scott Hieber's article in the new issue of Aquarium Fish International? He mentions "...nitrate levels around 10 ppm work out well for both" [plants and fish].

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

The most recent research i have heard of suggests that most fish can be kept in nitrates of up to 400ppm with no long-term effects. I agree that it is best practice to keep nitrate in line with the tap water, but certainly saying that nitrate must be kept below 20ppm or 40ppm is incorrect. Some tap water in the UK has higher nitrate content than that.

If anyone can quote any scientific research which suggests otherwise, i'd be very interested to read it.

I do agree that this need not apply to corals and other inverts, or salt water set ups.

There's been evidence posted on this forum before (i think by andywg) showing that most common trops can be kept in water up to 100ppm Nitrate with no serious effects (long or short term)

Even delicate fish can be kept in considerably higher nitrate than we often think.

However quite probably the most important thing to remember with nitrates, is that even the best nitrate test kits available to the average aquarist, are fairly inaccurate and as such whatever reading you get you've no real way of knowing if it's correct or not. Without some sophisticated kit you can't really properly monitor nitrates so while you should keep an eye on them, there's generally no need to get into a big flap over your readings. take the reading as indicative rather than gospel.

assuming a tank is fairly sensibly stocked, filtered and maintained there's really never going to be a nitrate issue unless you have incredibly sensitive fish.

 

[rdd1952]

Chicklette, most all of us have posted some bad information and advice. Part of the problem with the info you had is that it was from a company selling nitrate removal filters so naturally, they want you to buy their products to keep the nitrate out. Kind of like the filter companies telling you to change the filter bag every 2 to 3 weeks. They are simply trying to make money.

As far as nitrate is concerned, unless you have a high amount in your tap water as is common in the UK, especially around London, or have a very heavily stocked tank of big waste producers, weekly water changes should always keep nitrates below 10 to 20 ppm. If the tank is fairly heavily planted, you may not see nitrates at all as the plants may use the ammonia in it's pure form before it can be processed by filter bacteria.

 

[andywg]

There's been evidence posted on this forum before (i think by andywg) showing that most common trops can be kept in water up to 100ppm Nitrate with no serious effects (long or short term)

I actually misunderstood the research there with the units used. The level of nitrates in the papers was actually closer to 400ppm.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

As far as nitrate is concerned, unless you have a high amount in your tap water as is common in the UK, especially around London, or have a very heavily stocked tank of big waste producers, weekly water changes should always keep nitrates below 10 to 20 ppm. If the tank is fairly heavily planted, you may not see nitrates at all as the plants may use the ammonia in it's pure form before it can be processed by filter bacteria.

Just to play devils advocate really (as I do agree in principal that if it's possible to keep your nitrates that low you should do) why is it OK to have high Nitrates if you live in (e.g.) london but not elsewhere? The fish don't know where you live, they're not just going to let you off the high nitrates because you live there. If you've the same fish, same tank, same equipment etc etc etc in two different cities so with different nitrate readings the fish are either going to be fine with the nitrate or they aren't.

It's a scientific fact, they either can handle the nitrate or they can't, you can't just say it's fine if you live in an area with high nitrate.

if it's fine for people who live in high nitrate areas, then the same levels must also be acceptable for fishkeepers who live in areas with low nitrate.

There's been evidence posted on this forum before (i think by andywg) showing that most common trops can be kept in water up to 100ppm Nitrate with no serious effects (long or short term)

I actually misunderstood the research there with the units used. The level of nitrates in the papers was actually closer to 400ppm.

i'll let you off.... point still proven though i think?!

 

[backtotropical]

Andywg, would you list these papers for me please?

I'd be very interested to have a look myself.

Cheers

BTT

 

[rdd1952]

As far as nitrate is concerned, unless you have a high amount in your tap water as is common in the UK, especially around London, or have a very heavily stocked tank of big waste producers, weekly water changes should always keep nitrates below 10 to 20 ppm. If the tank is fairly heavily planted, you may not see nitrates at all as the plants may use the ammonia in it's pure form before it can be processed by filter bacteria.

Just to play devils advocate really (as I do agree in principal that if it's possible to keep your nitrates that low you should do) why is it OK to have high Nitrates if you live in (e.g.) london but not elsewhere? The fish don't know where you live, they're not just going to let you off the high nitrates because you live there. If you've the same fish, same tank, same equipment etc etc etc in two different cities so with different nitrate readings the fish are either going to be fine with the nitrate or they aren't.

It's a scientific fact, they either can handle the nitrate or they can't, you can't just say it's fine if you live in an area with high nitrate.

if it's fine for people who live in high nitrate areas, then the same levels must also be acceptable for fishkeepers who live in areas with low nitrate.

Actually, I didn't say it as fine. I only stated that in areas where nitrate in the tap water isn't an issue, you shouldn't ever see high nitrate levels since regular weekly water changes will easily keep them under 10 to 20 ppm unless you are very heavily stocked with big waste producers.

Obviously, people in the areas with nitrate in their tap water have no problems as CFC keeps some very delicate rays and such with 40+ ppm in his tap water. It's definitely true that the fish don't know where they are but most are probably bred in roughly the same water they are kept in. For example, in the US where nitrate in tap water is uncommon, most fish we buy have never been exposed to high levels of nitrate. In the UK though, I would assume that since nitrate in tap water seems to be more the norm than the exception, the fish they buy there have probably been exposed to higher levels of nitrate from birth so their systems would be more accustomed to it. I have no evidence to back that up but am just going on intuition. Of course, wild caught species would not fall into this.