How to keep lots of pure or salt water on hand or how to make water changes easier

[Jan Cavalieri]

Here was my original issue: I'm getting ready to set up a 31 gallon saltwater/reef aquarium (the beginner's Biocube) - problem is that it requires that you use RO/DI water. Besides filling it you do have frequent enough water changes and you need unsalted water for topping off (salt doesn't evaporate so you top off with pure water rather than salt water but you do water changes with a salt mixture). I also have 2 tanks of freshwater fish. One soon to be 90 gallons tank and one I currently have that is 50 gallons (I'm retiring my current 29 gallon once the 90 arrive). I also have to doctor my water as it's going into the tank (I've killed fish using the Python for that very reason), one chemical lowers my tap ph of 9.4 to a solid 7.0 IF you get the precise amount. I don't dare risk dumping PH 9,4 water on their heads even temporarily. The other of course, is a water conditioner (Prime). Saltwater also must be mixed in advance and not in the aquarium itself. So we had water problems.

You can buy that much water in 5 and 10 gallon containers but I'm on oxygen 24/7 and rarely even drive. Not an option. My assistant has back problems thanks to all the water changes he's done for me and my freshwater tanks. I have back problems for the same reason plus poor bone density and degredation of my lumbar vertebrate (his is a slipped disk). We've been hauling way too many buckets.

My solution (I thought I was such a genius until I started noticing this same set up in a lot of youtube videos - so it's probably a "duh" for most of you, but for those like me that try to make every problem seem too difficult to solve or are just plain stupid - I hope you like my solution

I purchased 4 Rubbermaid BRUTE trashcans and lids (20 gallons). Brute cans are certified FOOD SAFE and do not leach plastics into the water. I think after moving water in these and almost tipping them multiple times that 20 gallons is a nice safe size to move water with) We don't use the lids unless storing the water.

I purchased 4 rectangular dollies (couldn't find round ones at any reasonable price) to put the trash cans on.

One is our "dirty water trashcan" and dirty water of all types is siphoned by 1 or more Laifoo Aquarium Water changer ($12.99 on Amazon). For big tanks the more the better and the suction bulb does tend to wear out every 6months or so we have 3 of them. The water is then moved to the nearest toilet and dumped by smaller buckets into the toilet - yes, still buckets but we didn't have to carry them through the house. Originally our plan has been to dump the water outside (great fertilizer) but we can't fit them over my doorframes - going to try a rubber mat over the door frames next time I do this and see if that gives it enough slope to slowly move them across without tipping over or spilling,

A second trash can is for mixing our freshwater from the tap of the kitchen sink (pure water lacks a lot of essential nutrients - that's not a problem with salt water because the salt mixture you purchase adds the nutrients needed back into the water at correct levels - wish they had something like that for fresh water fish. So we just get it out of the tap with an adaptor on the kitchen sink and a 5ft piece of water hose (human grade safe for drinking and no leeching of chemicals) The advantage of using the water immediately is that you can get it close to the correct temperature.

Two trash cans are for me and my salted and pure water - I purchased a $159 portable RO/DI water maker - supposedly makes 100 gallons a day of pure water but in reality I'm told to expect more like 50 on a long full day - plus it only fits in my kitchen sink and I need to use that sink sometimes).
I plan to make and store 40 gallons of salt water in my two trash cans and use it to fill the 31 gallon tank with some left over. Then I'll rinse out the other one A LOT in the bathtub and use it for pure water after that - I only need more than 20 gallons of saltwater the first time I fill the tank and in reality probably much less since the substrate and a reef will be in there - so 20 might actually do it. After that point one can will be designated "salt water" the other "pure water" and my assistant and I will share the dirty water can with all tanks.

We've started using this system for water changes for the last few weeks and it makes them 100% easier and takes nearly half the time. We believe in big water changes -(I tend to overfeed and we have some big pooper fish). So we're removing 70-80% of all the bad water. With multiple siphons going that is done pretty fast. I may have to get another trash can or two. The first part though is still vacuuming and that takes quite a long time, but even in the 50 gallon I have it well vacuumed before all my water is siphoned - I can imagine us needing to use 3 siphons for the 90 gallon,

Once my saltwater tank becomes operational I'm going to have to preheat the water in trashcans without burning the plastic. Any ideas on a good heater or technique? I want to at least get it CLOSE to the correct temperature of the tank water.

So am I brilliant or what? Once I start on the salt water tank I'll know for sure. I sent in a question to Rubbermaid about where EXACTLY is the 20 gallon mark on their cans so I don't have to measure my pure water - I'm hoping to just have it move straight from the hose on the kichen sink into the cans without having to wait for a gallon to be produced (that would be a LONG day). You almost always have to tweek your salt levels a little I am told but I'd like to get the right concentration pretty close on the first try.

Unfortunately the cans are rather ugly to store - but you can get them in multiple colors so have some fun with it. I have a dedicated fish room and they all fit - we have to move things around them a little sometimes.

Jan

 

[StevenF]

The water is then moved to the nearest toilet and dumped by smaller buckets into the toilet

Why use s smaller bucket to dump water? use and electric pump. Attach a hose to pump and put the pump in the larger bucket. Put the end of the hose in the toilet and plug in the pump. If you make the hose long enough you could dump the dirty fresh water outside even if the water container doesn't fit through thee door.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Any ideas on a good heater or technique?

It will have to be a regular heater in the bucket/container.

Are you wanting to do an auto mixing station? Or an auto water changer?

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

I have no idea how to connect a pump to a hose - but perhaps my assistant can figure that out - we're just happy to no longer have to carry buckets around. The windows in the fish room don't open at the moment - but we probably could get at least one open if we worked on it (I'm just renting this place I don't want to risk damaging anything. If the Python didn't require water pressure to work then we could use it

Pheonix - I'm not planning on doing an auto anything - I just needed a way to store lots of water. There is no way I'm likely to produce enough water on water change day for the salt water aquarium - it will just take too long to produce - and you never know (as I found out this week) when there will be an emergency and you'll need to do multiple water changes - so I always wanted to have enough pure water and salt water on hand,. For the freshwater group - it's just about saving our backs from hauling water. Lifting a small pail a few times into the toilet is nothing compared to having to carry that water in 5 gallon buckets from the aquarium to the toilet (for me it was more like 3 gallons of water at a time). Both our backs were giving us problems. I've been doing water changes almost constantly this week due to the ammonia spike and white algae bloom. I also spent several hours off and on resuscitating a large DoJo loach. The first time - I blew in his mouth he woke up and jumped from my hands so now he's even more battered and beaten up looking than before, But his little heart would keep stopping so I would run some clean water through his system (which is very easy thanks to the arrangement of his anatomy - it goes in the mouth and out his butt) until he was effectively detoxified from that nasty algae or whatever that tank has in it. Then he'd stop breathing and turn belly up and it was more compressions but after a couple of hours he was swimming on his own (before even his companions were trying to nudge him constantly to swim - being part of a group is very important to DoJo's. I slept about 3 hours and just got up and checked on him - and he and the others are all still alive. I don't know how many water changes I did yesterday on that tank - when it's the other tank with the ammonia issue. That I've left to tackle some more today. I can't get the ammonia levels below 4 - which is a killer - I just keep changing water and re-dosing with prime to keep the ammonia deactivated. I'm more than a little tired and I still have pneumonia so it's way more of a struggle than it would be usually. I almost think there is a dead fish buried someway under that substrate or something but I've stirred and looked and looked - it makes no sense that I can't get it down below 4 or that it hasn't converted to nitrites yet. And there is nothing I hate more than water testing (too many hours in graduate school cleaning test tubes). But it was cool at the school - they had one whole sink attached to a huge distilled water tank (all test tubes were given a final rinse in it) And we had a huge jar for radioactive substances (and we STILL had to clean those test tubes instead of just tossing them in the jar with their contents, A friend of mine once poured radioactive material all over one tennis shoe - it soaked clear through to her foot so she spent hours in the shower washing her food and a lot of time washing her sneaker - which was still reading radioactive a year later (we only made $600 a month so we couldn't afford new shoes very often) . We had to wear these tape measuring like things that constantly monitored our exposure to radioactivity - if the tape turned red then it was game over - you weren't allowed any more exposure for the rest of the year.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

First off, you don’t have to do weekly water changes in a saltwater tank, like you would in a freshwater tank. They are completely different.

I haven’t done a water change in my 29g SW, for over a month. (I’ve obviously topped off evaporation, but other than that, nothing)

——

Your tank, isn’t much bigger than my tank. For me, I only have around 5 gallons of mixed and ready to use saltwater on hand. I also have another 5 gallons of RO/DI water, to use for the top offs.

You shouldn’t need to have a ton of water on hand, for a tank your size.

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

Thank you that is VERY good to know. I had read they take fewer water changes and the biocube has a hood on it to limit evaporation so I'm hoping that the biggest work will be feeding them. I only plan to get 5 fish - certainly a Clown fish (along with an Anemone) and perhaps some Damsels. Not really into invertebrates like shrimp (they just freak me out and remind me of bugs) but I may get one of those cleaner shrimp and just learn to deal with my phobia. I am still fighting cloudy water on my Loach tank and I want the dang 90 gallon tank to arrive to see if that size solves the problem. Between my assistant and I we've done 5 major water changes this week. It always starts out cloudy, then clears up to crystal clear then is back to super cloudy 2 hours later. Not sure if this is a white water algae bloom or just because the loaches poop so much but I plan to start from scratch on the new 90 gallon (I dread cycling a tank from scratch but I am afraid to bring anything over from their old tank into the 90 gallon), once I have them settled then I'll start on my saltwater/reef tank (my pocketbook needs a rest anyway). Again, thank you for your info. I'm sure I can count on you to help get me through the set up of a small saltwater tank. Do you have a reef?

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

Oh - I should mention that moving fresh water with these trash bins has cut our water change time down at least 1/3 if not to 1/2 the time and my assistant absolutely loves it (as do I) - the wear and tear on our backs is minimal which is great since we both have back problems. So even if I got it for the saltwater tank - it's proved it's worth with freshwater changes which I do weekly. I'll be getting a 90 gallon tank soon I hope and it should be a lifesaver once we have it. I still need the cans to produce and store the first 30 gallons of water (probably less due to reef and substrate) because I know I can't produce it all in one day - based on what I've heard with RO/DI systems supposedly producing 100 gallons of pure water a day. Plus I need my sink at least part of each day - so I can store it with no worries. Then I can just keep two partial cans of water - pure and salt in smaller quantities and use the remaining cans for freshwater water changes.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

I only plan to get 5 fish - certainly a Clown fish (along with an Anemone) and perhaps some Damsels.

Clownfish usually do best in pairs, so I suggest getting at least 2.

Damsel fish are cool, but I've heard of them being aggressive to the clowns and vise versa - this is something you need to keep in mind.

Another good fish that would work with the clown pair, are goby's. Lots of varieties to choose from.

Do you have a reef?

Yes! Its a 29 gallon tank.

This is the journal for it: https://www.fishforums.net/threads/29g-saltwater-nano-tank.471210/#post-4043346

I don't update as much as I should, lol.

(along with an Anemone

Nems are super cool, but you should wait at least 6 months after the tank is setup, before getting one.

They are VERY sensitive to any swing in parameters. In other words, the tank needs to be well matured and stable.

----

What test kits do you have/are you planning on getting?

 

[PheonixKingZ]

I still need the cans to produce and store the first 30 gallons of water (probably less due to reef and substrate) because I know I can't produce it all in one day - based on what I've heard with RO/DI systems supposedly producing 100 gallons of pure water a day.

What RO/DI system are you looking at getting?

I personally use the RO Buddie (off of Amazon.com). This bad boy will produce 5 gallons of water every 35-40 minutes.

 

[StevenF]

First off, you don’t have to do weekly water changes in a saltwater tank, like you would in a freshwater tank. They are completely different.

I haven’t done a water change in my 29g SW, for over a month. (I’ve obviously topped off evaporation, but other than that, nothing)

IF you just have a salt water tank with fish in it you only need to do water changes to minimize the buildup of nutrients in the water such as nitrate, and phosphate.

However if yourself water tank has coral or sea weed it. You need to do water changes to replenish nutrients consumed by the coral and sea weed.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

IF you just have a salt water tank with fish in it you only need to do water changes to minimize the buildup of nutrients in the water such as nitrate, and phosphate.

However if yourself water tank has coral or sea weed it. You need to do water changes to replenish nutrients consumed by the coral and sea weed.

This is only half correct.

In a NEW saltwater tank, yes, small weekly water changes MIGHT be beneficial, especially when removing excess algae. (During the ugly stage)

Many reefers haven’t done a water change in YEARS.

However if yourself water tank has coral or sea weed it. You need to do water changes to replenish nutrients consumed by the coral and sea weed.

You have to dose nutrients to your tank, in the form of chemicals. Coral won’t get what they need to survive, solely from water changes.

If you are keeping SPS or LPS, you have to dose alkalinity. (Most people use baking soda or Seachem Alkalinity)

If you’re keeping softies, you need to dose something along the lines of reef roids or Seachem Reef Fuel.

Many coral also eat fish poop.

——

Have you ever kept a saltwater tank? Or coral for that matter??

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

I will get two clowns and some blemmies but probably two clowns to start - I don't want to overwhelm a newly cycled system. My water system was $159 on Amazon - arrived without a box but with instructions and appears spotless. It didn't say refurbed or anything in the description and had great reviews - better than many of the more expensive units that produced the same amount but I probably should test it now or my 30 day warranty from Amazon will run out if it already hasn't. Supposed to get 100 gallons a day. With such a small tank and only me to disturb at home I didn't go with the high dollar fast ones. I'm old, I am used to waiting. LMAO. All the reviews I read everywhere said the 100 gallons a day was probably unrealistic - and to expect about half that.

The more you can fill me in about corrals the better. I like the anemones but am a little afraid of getting stung - I know they move around on their own. And the only other corals I see that I love are Zooanthoids and perhaps a fan - something that moves. I suspect zooanthoids look better close up than from a distance but they sure look awesome in the pictures for them. . I do realize you have to feed the coral even though they get some nutrients from converting light energy. What is a SPS or LPS - I keep seeing those acronyms but never spelled out. I do have a couple of jars of reef roids and plan on growing copepods and brine shrimp. I'll probably have to buy frozen fish, any paraticular kind? Could I buy 1/2 lb at the grocery store and cut it up in to pieces or do you have to turn it into mush?

Any vegetarian corals? Most books I've read will convince you all you need is light and plenty of fish poop but I already knew that wasn't true. The smell of raw fish really makes me gag and I know fresh fish has no smell so if you can smell it then toss it out. I had no trouble consuming a good grade of raw tuna at a sushi bar, it was very good with wasabi (probably horseradish) and the shredded ginger. Ginger kind of took over the flavor - too strong so I mostly just used the Wasabi because I love horseradish.

Looks like a turkey baster is what is generally used to feed small corals and hope their mouths are open. I do have many year of experience working with different kinds of animals so feeding them doesn't bother me - just not aquatic or reptilian. I'm lucky that I'm home all day (disabled) so I could do multiple feedings a day but I'd rather just feed once per day. I feed neighborhood cats, racoons, possums and birds and hummingbirds - preparing all those foods each day takes most of the morning.

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

I bought a box of different test kits - each packet (and there are about 20) test something different. But I'm assuming that the most vital types of testing are included in the API test kit (Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates and PH) using the Saltwater chart provided to examine the results for saltwater tanks. I'm not particularly concerned about testing, especially since I now have a bunch of different test kits. What concerns me is how to fix the water once a test kit comes back with a poor result. I've been fighting a white algae bloom in my 50 gallon fresh water 50 gallon tank. I've been waiting for over 6 weeks to receive my 90 gallon tank. This tank will only hold 4 dojo loaches and perhaps a couple of plecos. All the test results have come back normal until last night where it's now suddenly reading an ammonia reading off the chart, So is my 29 gallon freshwater tank but it doesn't have the white cloud bloom. I had originally planned to move the media from my 50 gallon over to my 90 gallon tank, while adding a canister filter - just to speed up cycling. I haven't had to start a tank from scratch in a couple of years - but I don't want to risk bringing the cloudy algae bloom with me to the 90 gallon. Once that gets done I'll be starting to build my reef and add salt water. I'm very concerned the high ammonia readings are caused by something else. The 29 gallon tank lost 4 fish while I was in the hospital with pneumonia (my daughter was feeding the fish but apparently didn't notice the very dead fish in the tank). I'm can be bad about overfeeding but she way out-did me on that - so I think it caused the initial high ammonia which then killed fish which contributed ot even more ammonia in the tank, The entire project is on hold until I get the 90 gallon tank up and running. The vendor (Bulk Reef Supply) charged my credit card for the tank 6 weeks ago but it turns out THEY have somebody manufacture the acrylic tanks for the and it''s those people that are running behind on fulfilling orders. When I was an online merchant we had 3 days to get the merchandise shipped with a tracking number after somebody paid us or Paypal would freeze our account (we built custom servers and computers so we didn't stock them - we purchased the parts and got the computers built and shipped within 3 days after payment because each order was unique and we only had about a 15% profit margin on each server even when it might cost 15-20K so I understand this vendor's issue to some extent but the "custom tank" we ordered is a standard size and shape so it's nothing custom about it - so they are walking a fine line with their merchant account if they were to get a chargeback for taking so long and if they are a really small business they are likely to get themselves in a real financial bind. Going to email them today - thihs was the date they promised they could ship by. I hate to be a jerk about it but I want my fish tank NOW. We always had a contract for large orders and never once failed to miss a deadline and PayPal STILL shut us down for 3 weeks in the beginning to make sure we were legit.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Sorry I’m just now seeing this - I have been at military summer camp.

The more you can fill me in about corrals the better. I like the anemones but am a little afraid of getting stung - I know they move around on their own. And the only other corals I see that I love are Zooanthoids and perhaps a fan - something that moves. I suspect zooanthoids look better close up than from a distance but they sure look awesome in the pictures for them. . I do realize you have to feed the coral even though they get some nutrients from converting light energy. What is a SPS or LPS - I keep seeing those acronyms but never spelled out. I do have a couple of jars of reef roids and plan on growing copepods and brine shrimp. I'll probably have to buy frozen fish, any paraticular kind? Could I buy 1/2 lb at the grocery store and cut it up in to pieces or do you have to turn it into mush?

Ok, this is a very controversial subject.

Some people say spot feed your corals, others say let the fish’s poop feed them.

Me personally? I spot speed all the ones I can once a week.

And the only other corals I see that I love are Zooanthoids and perhaps a fan - something that moves. I suspect zooanthoids look better close up than from a distance but they sure look awesome in the pictures for them

I love zoas - some really pretty variations out there.

Zoas are a great beginner coral, as they are hardy and colorful.

They do look good close up, but if you stare at yours as close as I stare at mine, you’ll love it.

Any vegetarian corals? Most books I've read will convince you all you need is light and plenty of fish poop but I already knew that wasn't true.

Eh... not really. Most corals will appreciate mysis shrimp, krill, pellets, and reef roids.

Looks like a turkey baster is what is generally used to feed small corals and hope their mouths are open.

I have tried this technique, and it really doesn’t work.

The Turkey baster will distribute food into the water column, but it will also push water out. This ‘strong’ current of water, will cause the coral to close its polyp up, not allowing it to get food.

I have found that a pair of aquascaping tweezers works best. Just grab the food with the tweezers, and then let it go just above the head. They should catch it and close up.

(Make sure to turn the powerhead/wave maker off before feeding)

I will get two clowns and some blemmies but probably two clowns to start - I don't want to overwhelm a newly cycled system. My water system was $159 on Amazon - arrived without a box but with instructions and appears spotless. It didn't say refurbed or anything in the description and had great reviews - better than many of the more expensive units that produced the same amount but I probably should test it now or my 30 day warranty from Amazon will run out if it already hasn't. Supposed to get 100 gallons a day. With such a small tank and only me to disturb at home I didn't go with the high dollar fast ones. I'm old, I am used to waiting. LMAO. All the reviews I read everywhere said the 100 gallons a day was probably unrealistic - and to expect about half that.

Interesting... what system did you get?

I'm can be bad about overfeeding but she way out-did me on that - so I think it caused the initial high ammonia which then killed fish which contributed ot even more ammonia in the tank,

Ok, one thing you will have to do is NOT over feed. This is extremely hard to do with clownfish, because they are SUPER good with begging.

They aren’t necessarily hungry, they are just scavenger eaters. This means they will eat what they can, when they can, because they don’t know when their next meal will be.

The vendor (Bulk Reef Supply) charged my credit card for the tank 6 weeks ago but it turns out THEY have somebody manufacture the acrylic tanks for the and it''s those people that are running behind on fulfilling orders.

Not sure what to say about this, sorry. Have you tried to contact them? They are usually very good with customer service.

—-

Are you getting the 90g for the saltwater tank?

 

[Jan Cavalieri]

The 90 gallon tank is for the Dojo fish. As they grow closer to 2 feet long I'm going to need a 90 gallon tank. I'll probably add some other fish in but they have to be lively - Dojo's like chaos. The Rainbows hated them, the Gormami hated them with a passion. 9 days ago Bulk Reef told me I should expect a call from the carrier to arrange shipping date time. Never heard from the carrier. They've had my money for over 9 weeks now and no tank. I'm getting ready to do a chargeback. I know they're probably a small company that can't afford to pay me back - well they'd better figure out how the game is played - the customer gives you money and you ship the item. Website says 2-4 weeks, then he said 4-6 weeks and now 5-8 weeks and this week should be delivery - do you blame me for filing a chargback. Hard to learn not to deal with vendors who cant produce. When my husband and I had a Custom computer/server website. They'd pay up front, we purchased from sellers that shipped overnight and 2 day. By day 3 the merchandise built, extensively tested boxed and shipped.

I got a simple biocube for the reef tank. 31 gallons. A sump like thing without socks is built into the back of the tank - you have a number of ways to arrange your filtration. For example you can take 2 - 120 size Aquaclear sponges for each end. Then there is a Shelf for you to add carbon, ammonia absorbers, all sorts of things you're familiar with as a fresh water fisher but also try a few things for reef's and salt water fish. In the middle section I purchased a protein skimmer that was made for the biocube. You could add a lower shelf and set up a 10 gallon refugium but that kink of seems like overkill. This is definately a beginner's saltwater tank. Once I've purchased more filters and fish and corals I'm sure I'll have close to 3K in it,

I also have a 50 gallon tank that will be empty once the dojos vacate it. After near antisecptic level of cleaning to get rid of any white algae issues than I'll move my rainbod and Gourami fish in to the 50 gallon - they don't like each other much (I don't think Rainbows like anything) then the Gourami can have the other end. I love these fish. More plantsk more decorations