How often can I do a water change?

[bubs]

How often can I do a water change without harming my fish? I set up my first tank 2 weeks ago and I put sand and plants and wood in for the first week. The water was so brown and dull that I took your advise and it has now been soaking for the past 3 days in the sink.where I have changed umpteen lots of water. The tank is now wood free at the moment. How often can I do water changes to get rid of the dye from the wood?And how much. On saturday I added my first fish. 5 x black widow tetras. I was told these were hardy fish and were a good starter? I would like to get my water dye free, but without doing any harm to the fish. Any help much appreciated.

 

[canarsie11]

Is your tank cycled?

 

[bubs]

yes.

 

[CathyG]

As long as your usual water parameters are ok (Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, PH etc) your tetra will actually like the Tannins in the water, so don't panic about changing water for them

That said, your method of changing the water, rather than how often it is done, is what is most likely to affect your fish in this instance. Do you net them? Do you leave them in? If you can do - say - a 30% daily, or every other day, without netting, and making sure the water is pre-treated for heavy metals and chlorine, your fish should do fine and the tannins be removed fairly quickly Just my opinion though, I don't really see a panic to change water unless your other readings are threatening - this I see as a cosmetic change

 

[MXPX4318]

why the concerned face after the "yes." in your post about your tank being cycled? If you just put your first fish in on saturday, only 2 days ago, then it is HIGHLY unlikely that your tank is cycled already. Cycling is the nitrogen cycle, or the process of converting ammonia into nitrites and then into nitrates, because ammonia and nitrites can be deadly to your fish this is a very stressfull time for your fish. Black widows are hardy and can usually handle this stress. If you do not have a test kit, I recommend going out and buying one to test your water during this time. Your ammonia will start out by going up (with that bioload probably to about 1ppm max) then after a week or 2 ammonia will start going down and nitrites will start going up this is only halfway though, after nitrites go up (probably to about .25ppm-.5ppm) another week or two they will go down and nitrates will go up. once both ammonia and nitrites go down to 0ppm and nitrates are anywhere between 5-20ppm your tank is cycled (now nitrates can get higher without hurting fish but it is suggested to try and keep it under 20ppm is the usual rule of thumb) this process usually takes about 4 weeks depending on the size of your tank. I am about halfway through cycling my 20gallon with 5 gold barbs, I do daily water changes of about 10-20% (just taking water off the top as to not disrupt the bacteria that convert these chemicals that live in the gravel, so don't vaccum gravel during this time) this keeps my nitrite levels in check (under .25ppm) and my tank has been cycling around 2.5 weeks now and still not done. changing water isn't going to hurt your fish, if anything it will help. Hope this clears things up and removes that concerned face from your "yes" the next time you say your tank is cycled. good luck

Phillip

 

[Da_Oz]

Doing lots of water changes slows down the cycle. But the plants you have in your tank will help speed this up. And if done right a new planted tank will never cycle by most peoples version of cycle.

 

[MXPX4318]

acctually, changing water only slows down the process if you take water from the bottom (aka do a gravel vac on the tank) because the bacteria that help the cycle, though they do float in the water, breed and multiply only in substrate, filter media, and other surfaces, so as long as you don't mess with the surfaces in the tank and only remove water the amount of bacteria removed is pretty negligable, I mean I've been changing water daily since the tank was set up (2.5 weeks) and I'm right on schedule, nitrites up, ammonia down, nitrates accumulating, I figure a week or two more and I'll be done, so 4-5 weeks for a 20 gallon is about normal, water changes or not.

 

[Da_Oz]

Doing alot of water changes can throw off the cycle of a 20 year old tank. Why do you think you do them. But where is this schedule. What is the schedule to cycle a tank. 4-5 weeks?? I can get a tank threw cycle in 48 hours, 10g - 125g. There is no set rule on how long it takes. But I have seen side by side test of fishless cycles and doing water changes does slow it down even if you don't use a vac.

1 If you don't pretreat the water befor it goes in the tank it will kill back some of the bacteria.

2 Stiring the bottom lets the bacteria float there the tank into the filter which does not really kill it but it can only hold so much.

3 Temp swings can kill bacteria.

4 Water changes takes out the food for the bacteria.

I am sure there is more to add, PWC's is not a bad thing and sometimes is a must do thing during cycle but either way it does slow down the cycle.

 

[MXPX4318]

ok well here is the "schedule" for fish cycling without adding crap to your tank to speed things up (most beginers don't add things and just use fish):
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=55309

So yeah for cycling with fish and no additives I'd say I'm right on schedule (if not ahead) even with my 10-20% daily changes. Seeing as his tank is quite close to the size of mine. I'm just going on the norm, or how most people would cycle a tank that don't have access to A) biospira or B) some form of filter media or gravel from an established tank. just my 2 cents on the subject.

 

[Inchworm]

Hi bubs

Keeping fish is often a confusing hobby to get started on because there is more than one way to do it and few definite rules. On this thread alone there are a variety of opinions, some right in certain circumstances, others right in other circumstances. Here is a link to an article that will help you understand the process we call "cycling."

http/faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html

Basicly, it is a process that the tank will go through. In the end you will have established a colony of beneficial bacteria that will convert the fish waste products (ammonia) to relatively harmless nitrates.

Cycling will happen automatically if your tank has fish in it. Natural bacterial will find their way in and will use the ammonia produced by the fish to nourish themselves. This in turn will result in other wastes (nitrItes) appearing in the tank. Another form of bacteria will grow that consume them and turn them into more harmless nitrAtes. So, cycling actually the process of cultivating the proper kinds of bacteria.

In other words, nature will take it's course and in the end your tank will be able to sustain your fish with much less work on your part because the bacteria will be doing much of it. Until that time it is up to you to do enough water changes to keep the ammonia, and soon the nitrItes, limited to amounts that will not be harmful to the fish. The fewer fish in the tank, while this is happening, the slower the process will be and the safer it will be for the fish.

The same is true of water changes. The more of them you do, the less harmful chemicals are effecting the fish. Let me point out that there is no need to hurry. All the fish really need is to have clean healthy water and it does not matter if you give them that or if the bacteria do. The longer it takes to cycle, the healthier the fish will be when it is complete. If it takes 3 or 4 months, or even longer, that is just fine.

There is another technique of cycling called "fishless cycling," which involves adding chemicals to the tank to grow the bacteria in it before the fish are added. It is no better or worse than cycling with fish if the level of ammonia and nitrites are controlled and kept down.

Please get yourself test kits for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Then monitor the levels and do as many water changes as it takes to keep the levels down. It is best to keep your tank lightly stocked until the cycle is complete and then add more fish slowly so that the beneficial bacteria has a chance to reproduce to a number that can consume the additional waste they produce.

 

[bubs]

The tank was given to me by a friend who went on to bigger and better things. When I received it it already had a little water left in it as she had transferred her fish and all into her new tank. I've tested the water and got 0 nitrItes and about 12.5 nitrAtes. I'm guessing that the cycle has taken place with these results. Could the little bit of water that was left have kick started the cycle? Thanks for being so patient with me and for all your replies. It is a little difficult to grasp everything and understand what it's all about. But I am getting there. Thanks for all help.

 

[Inchworm]

Hi bubs

Did you check the ammonia level? If there isn't any, your tank is indeed cycled.

If you added water to the established tank, and got some circulation going, soon after your friend took her fish out and emptied most of the water, the tank which had already been cycled, stayed that way.

Lucky you!

 

[MXPX4318]

sounds good to me, as long as there is no ammonia then you're good to go, just wanted to romove that bit of doubt in your answer so you would know for sure if it was cycled or not.
As far as water changes, you're going to hear both ways I am willing to bet, I personally believe the more water you change, the more freshwater that is added to the tank and the more bad old water is removed, so water changing is a good thing if you ask me, I like changing my 10-20% a day, my fish like the water changes too, they swim around and act excited everytime I do it.
Others will tell you to leave the "established" water and only change like 20-25% a week max. With this though the water is old and removed of other things that fish need out of the water, so putting in freshwater renews these good things.
I like the analogy given in one of my favorite books I've read on keeping fish "The simple guide to freshwater aquariums" by: David E. Boruchowitz:

"Try this analogy on for size. You and your family or friends have to move inot a room with sealed door and windows. There is a bathroom, but the toilet empties into a big pit under the floor, into which you also scrape any leftovers from your meals, which are delivered regularly and consist of your favorite foods in great quantity. Several fans suck the air through charcoal filters to absorb odors, then they blow the air aroudn the room and there is a small vent in the ceiling to allow some air exchange. How long do you think it would be before the room was unihabitable? How soon before that would you be uncomfortable? How much would you think people in the room would offer just to have a window opened?

It is important for you to realize that this scenario differs from the aquarium situation in a very significant way- the smells and fumes that would drive you out of that roomwould be harmless to a large extent....In an aquarium, however, the fish are trapped in the pit! They swim in, breathe, and drink water saturated in their own wastes."

Now in this he is just showing how opening the window is like a water change, it removes those harmful "fumes" and wastes from the tank giving your fish a new breath, and wouldn't you like it if you were in that room and got a fresh breath as often as you could?
That is why I believe in frequent water changes in a good sized amount are good.

(sorry this was so long) Phillip

 

[pnyklr3]

Wow...I was doing a 20% change every 2 weeks, and my lfs told me that changing the water too often is not good. They recommended changing 20% once a month.

 

[MXPX4318]

did they give you reasoning behind this argument? I have heard this argument but never heard anything to back it up other then "it messes up the cycle" which isn't true b/c once your tank is cycled the bacteria is developed on surfaces not in the water. So what is there reasoning behind it? just curious... but doesn't what I wrote before sensable? doesn't it make sense? I mean there is another analogy I could put but don't feel like writting another analogy again unless it's really wanted.