How long

[Andie]

Well, I got home with my new 10g yesterday (my new old 10g, but it's in remarkably good condition, and I got is so cheap it felt like stealing ), set up all the substrate, water, plants etc. fussed with the water and waited for temps to level off. It looks so perdy; the substrate is a super-fine gravel, all white, and I also put in a coarser black gravel so it looks like it's spilling out of the plant pot I have in there. All nice and cozy (pics will follow after work )

Then I let the girls loose.

For all of about a minute, there was no real interaction; they sorta rested on the sand panting for a bit. Then they all went up to take a breath from the surface, and saw each other. Galinda puffed up first and went sailing majestically toward Sarima, trying to convince everybody that she had been there first. Elphaba wasn't having any of it, and soon the four of them had paired off into two groups of two, first nose to tail, then tail to tail, and started thrashing it out.

At odd intervals two of them would also flank another one and try to batter her together, and when that didn't seem to work they started taking pieces out of each other's fins. Poor Nessarose's gorgeous anal fin is now, technically speaking, Nessarose's three gorgeous anal fins

Mum watched with me until she got too upset by it (my mother doesn't even like to brush our dogs too hard ) ) and I stayed for about another five minutes until I realised how late it was. They'd been going at it for about twenty minutes, and I didn't like to leave them like that all night, especially since not one of them seemed inclined to back down, so I separated them again, dosed them with a little bettafix (all of them were moderately scratched, but nothing too serious) and decided to wait to reunite them until after work.

Now, the question; for about how long should I expect things to be this bad? I expected the odd spat here and there over the next day or two, but this is almost constant, with nobody prepared to give an inch. They have plenty of hiding spots, plants etc., but nobody seems to want to use them! For how long should I try this out before I start hunting for tank dividers?

 

[SRC]

This is why I will not put mine together...I'm making a tank where they can see each other but not touch each other.

I'd venture to say they'll never calm down..and personally I wouldn't risk it...just divide the tank up. 4 bettas in a 10 gal gives each 2.5 gallons.

 

[Andie]

That's what it's looking like I'll have to do; I was reluctant to because it's awfully pretty all spread out as it is ) I think, barring any advice to the contrary, I'll give them this evening to thrash it out and if it gets too violent or doesn't get any better (two of them did seem to reach an understanding last night, just before I netted them, but I didn't like to chance it) then I'll get some needlepoint plastic tomorrow morning and give them each a room of their own

 

[BrookeLea]

yeah...my girls were the same way. nobody would give up, and when i woke up one morning to find one dead, i couldn't take it anymore and i seperated them. i'll never try to put them in a commuity again, unless they've grown up together from the same batch of fry. my mom, however, has four girls in a 10 gallon and they're perfectly fine. baffles me... good luck with your girls!

 

[Lady]

i have never had this issure...for i only have one female! haha but i was thinking maybe try the dividers....and they can just duke it out through the glass for a while...then after seeing each other for quite some time....you can just pull one of the dividers so that two of them could interact some...maybe since theyve seen each other for some time it wont be as bad....but then again i have no clue?! just some ideas I guess....good luck with it

 

[Andie]

Thank you very much to everyone for the replies; I suspect that the intensity of the fighting likely depends on the temperament of the girls, and wouldn't you know it, I have four prize shrews

I also have a sneaking suspicion that pairing each of the strongest off with one of the weaker two (ie Galinda with Sarima, Elphaba with Nessarose) in a tank split in two might, possibly, be easier, since in that case there would be a definite leader and a definite follower. As it is, already Elphie and Galinda have targeted each other as the real threat, and the same for Nessa/Sami (it was Nessa/Sami who seemed to reach an agreement last night). I suspect that once each pair figures out where they stand, everything would fall into place; I just don't want to lose one or more of them in the process!

 

[Andie]

Took these on my lunch break (as you can see, the ladies have not yet been reunited, so the water level is a little lower since they each have some tank water in their ice cream tubs). There are also three more (taller) plants missing, since these were saved from my previous betta's tank and are waiting at my mum's house, with all the rest of my college equipment! Once I get the tank set up in my dorm room the plants will be grouped in a cluster to the right of the tank in front of the larger flower pot.

The filter is really for a tank about half the size, so it's only temporary as well; I just set it in there to get the bacteria from it moving through the tank. I plan on having an externally-mounted filter once I get them all settled in my dorm room, but for now I figured the less junk I had to haul over with me, the better!

 

[SRC]

If I'm not mistaken you really need alot more cover then what you have there..it needs to look like a jungle..so they can escape....if you are going to try this.

I have mine in a divided tank now..and they have been in there since Kelly sent them to me (got them 7/14..so over a month)..and they have yet to give up trying to attack each other. They will hide for a bit then come out fins up (imagine little boxers with their gloves up lol).

I think some are just too hostile..and I don't think those will ever give up. Pairing them off 2 at a time is going to cause you more problems then not..as they will challenge each other constantly, imho.

 

[wuvmybetta]

Lovely tank

I believe that overstocking is the key when you're keeping females together. I know four is typically recommended but I honestly believe there is greater peace in numbers. I would up the filtration, add a few more hidey holes and get a few more girls. At least three. This spreads the aggression out a bit more.
This, of course, is not guaranteed. Nothing is with bettas

Overall, I've never kept unrelated bettas together and I never will.

 

[Andie]

Oooh, this means I get to buy more plants!

Sorry, hehe- I just really like browsing through the li'l jungles at my lps and Pets Unlimited ) If the other three won't be enough, then I will definitely make a little betta 'jungle'. I'm holding off buying real plants because I am wary of snail infestations, but I do have an old 'floating' plastic plant (I just ripped off the gravel tray and let it bob) I'll definitely put in that should take up a fair sized corner . . . there was a gorgeous, big black silk plant at Pets Unlimited that I really wanted too, and now I can justify the expense. Whee, shopping!

(and don't worry, I'll pick up the needlepoint canvas while I'm out, just in case I have absolutely no desire to watch my perdy girls tear each other to shreds)

ETA: Just read your post, Wuv. My gals are all sisters, but if adding a few more, even if they aren't related, will increase their odds of survival, I'll look into it. I have a line on a girl at the lps who says she'll order me females if I ask for them

Gah, a legitimate shopping spree AND more bettas? This just keeps getting better and better

 

[wuvmybetta]

Well, you could also try the old faithful "Break it up, break it up!" method for about a week. It may seem harsh but it's worked for me in the past with sibling tanks AND most recently with my krib father. Just use the handle end of a net and literally butt in and break it up a few times a day.
With the bettas it seems they catch on pretty quickly and they at least cut it out when I'm around. I sometimes walk in a find a couple tango'ing but they instantly stop when they see me, I guess they don't want to get in trouble

 

[Andie]

Oooh, it sounds just like babysitting! I sit for a family of three brothers and one sister and gah, those messes- if only a net were all it took

I may try acting as referee, then; in fact I may actually experiment with a few different divisions, just to see who gets along best; that sort of thing. I suspect that Galinda and Elphie will be the most trouble; they were the two sold to me to breed to Fiyero, and they're in prime condition, both of them huge, just bloated with eggs and incredibly hormonal Sami and Nessa are angels by comparison; it was Nessa that Galinda and Elphie ganged up on, and she went off to tussle with Sami after that, which is when I think the 'subsystem' was figured out- whoever out of G/E comes out on top will be head honcho, and whoever loses out of S/N will be at the bottom of the heap.

I really do find the power struggle fascinating to watch, since it so closely mirrors canine behaviour, but I don't like seeing my girls get torn up

 

[Synirr]

Lol Wuv, that's the same method I use if my cichlids have a disagreement!
All they ever do is flare and charge one-another a couple of times, but I always break it up by bumping the side of the tank to get their attention before it turns into bites. They usually forget what they were arguing about after that, I guess, because that ends it for the rest of the day

 

[Andie]

Hmm, now you've got me wondering about conditioning my convicts that way . . . a few more plants (though they, at least, have no shortage of hidey holes!) and the blunt handle of the net if they get too involved . . .

Though, knowing Ruby, she'd just wait till my back is turned and pounce on poor Norman again Oy, she's quite the nasty little so-and-so My betta ladies are actually quite docile compared to her

 

[wuvmybetta]

Lol Wuv, that's the same method I use if my cichlids have a disagreement!
All they ever do is flare and charge one-another a couple of times, but I always break it up by bumping the side of the tank to get their attention before it turns into bites. They usually forget what they were arguing about after that, I guess, because that ends it for the rest of the day

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I do that too!! I usually snap my fingers and then point as sternly as I can at the offending fish. They usually get so distracted staring down my finger that they forget what's what