How In The World.....

[BettaBoysGirl]

Hey All, Im looking for ideas on how my betta, who is the only creature in his tank, end up with a shredded, and severely torn dorsal fin. His others are just fine. I have him in a 4 gallon BiOrb tank. So no suction, merely an undergravel filter, and bubbler (have a gang valve on the bubbler to tone it way down). Ive had him for 6 weeks in this tank. I tested his water yesterday as part of my 3 day routine. Everything was normal. As was today. I use the liquid test kits. This is his tank. It has two plastic plants, no sharp edges, and one live plant (the tiny one). The piece of ceramic wood, is not standing up in the front picture, but turned and laid over the middle pipe (the bubbler). I dosed him with melafix to help the fin... anything else i can do? Any suggetions on how his fin got shredded? His other fins are just fine and this just happened sometime in the past 8 hours. I feel sorry for poor mr grumpy gills. and Want to make it all better. I cleaned his tank and only found pieces of his fin in the filter. Not stuck any other place. (Yes i tore it down in hopes of finding hte cause.) The Picture of him is before he shredded his fin.

 

[loraxchick]

hiya-
firstly i like your tank! the setup is nice and i love the wood!
are there any pinholes in his remaining rin? or signs of thinning of the membranes between the rays? coudld be finrot.
just keep doing waterchanges for the next week or so and hope to see some regrowth in the areas that were affected.
any chance of a recent pic of the damage?
cheers

 

[BettaBoysGirl]

hiya-
firstly i like your tank! the setup is nice and i love the wood!
are there any pinholes in his remaining rin? or signs of thinning of the membranes between the rays? coudld be finrot.
just keep doing waterchanges for the next week or so and hope to see some regrowth in the areas that were affected.
any chance of a recent pic of the damage?
cheers

No pine holes or thinning. It looks like something got ahold of him and ripped out a few rays and back half of the fin. Even on the off chance its fin rot, iver never seen it decimate a fin in 8 hours that badly.

 

[loraxchick]

not saying it IS finrot, just something to think about. and it can progress very very rapidly keep in mind. for now just keep clean clean water and feed good food. hopefully you will begin seeing regrowth in a week or less.
cheers

 

[ellena]

He may have chewed it?

 

[GuppyGoddess]

Do you have any aquarium salt you can add? I've used it in the past and when doing so, I use about 1/4th the amount recommended. Most LFSs carry it and it's about $2.50 (US) per box. You may want to read up on Melafix as it's debated whether or not it's safe to use on bettas (and should be used in smaller quantities). Read carefully as there is a rep for the company that makes Melafix who posts on here primarly when that product is brought up, so her posts are bias. Others are not!

 

[woodstock]

I'm thinking he chewed it as well. Or maybe there's something he caught it on too. I'm looking at that rock-looking thing...

 

[BettaBoysGirl]

I have no clue what it is. Im treating as if its fin rot. Anyone have a better idea on what meds to use? I was hesitated to dose him with the Melafix, but figure it was natural and better then real meds, till i was sure of The problem. I dont think its the piece of wood, mainly because i filed down all the sharp edges and it passed the panty hose test, and its been in there 6 weeks with no problem. its not sitting up like int he pic, it actually lays flat, the bubble tube going through its hole. Today... More damage... a hole in his tail and membrane missing between the rays, unlike his Dorsal fin which is missing rays. I still am amazed that that much damage can be done in 8 hours, and then again 24 hours. Considering the tank isnt cycled (sorry didnt know anything of it when i first got him), I do monitor the water, but did a 90% water change and dosed him with melafix. The only other thing i can think of, as i found no fin pieces except in the UGF filter, That maybe hes doing this to him self? For 3 weeks, I had him sitting next to another Betta Tank, and both of them throughly enjoyed themselves. I only seperated them so I could use the space to filter their future home. My Betta condo. It has dividers. Maybe hes bored or taking it out on himself. Just to see if that maybe it, I moved my female's (Nixie's) tank to sit next to him. He flares at her, and she flares right back. (yes im sure shes female. shes displaying breeding bars and has that white spot on her belly, the ovipositor i think.) So Im hoping either one of these will work for him. Heres some pics if you have any other ideas. And Yes i do use salt. Have been using it since day one of getting him. I put in 1/2 tsp per gallon.

 

[woodstock]

Some of it looks like tailbiting, but it's so unlikely for him to bite the dorsal first, rather than the...end tail. Must have wedged into something and got it caught? Not sure, just throwing out things. And I never find pieces of tail when they go missing, either.

 

[loraxchick]

thanks for the pics. 99.9% certain its finrot. you can see a split on the far side of his anal fin and the missing portions are classically shaped/damaged from finrot.
salt is a good start(remember to only replace the salt in the water that you are putting back into the tank-(sorry if that is obvious) and i would absolutely ditch the melafix. may end with dire consequences. keep doing 50% waterchanges every day for a week (and redosing salt in the water you replace). see if there is any improvement in the fins. if you notice fast degradation (ie more than 1/3 of the fin gone) you will need antibiotics. but usually finrot can be healed with simple upping of waterchanges and better maintenance. since you tested all the tank decor doubtful it is from anything in the tank.
as for tailbiting-
i have no idea why everyone here is so fast to jump to this conclusion in most cases of eroded fins. the phenomena is actually not very common, yet many times on the forum folks assume that is what is going on. Finrot is a very very common betta ailment and most of us have to deal with it at one time or another. and it isnt necessarily down to water stats being the culprit. 90% of the time lots of waterchanges will sort it out and only in that 10% instance will meds of any kind be necessary.
i know the OP is amazed at the speed of damage. trust me-it is not uncommon for finrot to take large chunks out (As the pics clearly indicate) basically overnight.
hang in there with him. he looks in otherwise great condition and a healthy fish (with a good immune system) usually fights it off themselves. but just in case id go find a good broad spectrum antibiotic in case you need it. if able turn the temp down 2 degrees or so to slow the growth of the bacteria doing the damage. also a word of caution on the salt- while it is a good inhibitor of bacteria/parasites just watch the fish for any excess mucous. if his slime coat becomes thick and cloudy dilute the salt with a large waterchange and do not redose.
all the best!
cheers

 

[woodstock]

The reason why I didn't think 'finrot' was because I didn't see any of the darker lining. It just simply looks cut off, and not eroding at all. It doesn't look like finrot to me, but a better picture would help a bunch.

I hear tailbiting cases so often. For me and friends, it's been common. So I always suggest tailbiting in something like this, since I've seen it so much. And frankly, since I had a tailbiter, it DID look like tailbiting to me. And also, nothing's wrong with suggesting various things, as it's usually bound to be one of the suggestions anyway Because missing fin --> possible tailbiting. Or finrot. Or snagging. Or nipping. You know? Lots of different reasons. (And tailbiting was never a conclusion).

 

[Honeythorn]

I still wouldn't rule out him catching it on something. The substrate stones are huge (for substrate) and a couple are rough looking. There are also large gap between them, and I'm pretty sure I can see the base of the tank and it's UGF in one picture? Bettas LOVE to squeeze themselves into, under and around things. He could also squeeze himself between theheater and the glass. If the plastic suction cup holders hav any sharp bits he may have caught himself there.

Personally with the long finned fancy bettas I have always avoided any sort of rock or wood tank decor like the plague and stuck with plants only.

 

[BettaBoysGirl]

I still wouldn't rule out him catching it on something. The substrate stones are huge (for substrate) and a couple are rough looking. There are also large gap between them, and I'm pretty sure I can see the base of the tank and it's UGF in one picture? Bettas LOVE to squeeze themselves into, under and around things. He could also squeeze himself between theheater and the glass. If the plastic suction cup holders hav any sharp bits he may have caught himself there.

Personally with the long finned fancy bettas I have always avoided any sort of rock or wood tank decor like the plague and stuck with plants only.

He's actually a veil tail. As for the substrate, the biorb comes with instructions not to use anything smaller then a pea. That's why there is big black rocks on top (in hopes of minimizing catching. As for the heater, its a round tank and I can't only get one of the suction cups to stick. So it hangs several inches frim the wall of the tank. I'm cycling a betta condo and that will be his perm home, not what you see now. It just has to take time to finishm. He's eating well, no fin clamping or flashing. In fact he's enjoying Nixie being next to him and showing off for her. I figure ill keep up with water changes, can't hurt. There are pieces in his fin that are already 1/3 missing. Happened when I first discovered it. But no new damage today. So should I dose him? Like many. I was hesitent to call it finrot due to no black edges intially, and the huge chucks. It really looked like something got a hold of him. But salt +water I can do and will contiue. Ill keep you uptodate. But still curious if I should go ahead and dose him or do water changes and see if it worsens?

 

[woodstock]

Alright then, but IMO I wouldn't dose with medications yet. But that's just me, as I don't like medications in general.

 

[kristalynnd1]

I had my betta in a quarentine tank for 3 days that had sqaure gems in the bottom insted of gravel, i couldn't find him anywhere until i pulled the fake plant out, somehow he wedged himself inbetween the rocks and the plants plastic anchor! he is now in a new tank with gravel but had a mark on his side, treated with stress coat and he's fine now. I would try melafix for his tail, but as for how he is like this i wouldn't know, just saying what happend to mine could have been what happend to him.