Horray! I Worked Out How To Create A Really Good Fresh Water Skimm

[RipSlider]

Hello,

I've posted a few times in the DIY forum about creating a fresh water protien skimmer, and the feedback was that they couldn't be made to work, as skimmers need tiny bubbles, and that's much harder to do in FW as opposed to salt water.

This lead to me making some enquires with some friends in the physics lab of one of the big UK uni's, and after a little bit of money, a lot of head scratching and a lot more fiddling, we've come up with a way of reliably producing tiny bubbles, smaller even that those in a SW skimmer, for fresh water.

A proof of concept has been cobbled together, and it's quite frankly disgusting what came out of the tank that I believed clean. I have a working fresh water skimmer with as good, if not higher effieicency than a salt water skimmer. This means that keeping sensitive species, such as Discus, has become an awful lot easier. (Which is why I wanted one in the first place )

So, now we're thinking that, after some more work on making it look nice, and making it easier to manufacture ( which can be also helped with by the guys in the production engineering department ), it's possible that other people might want to buy one. I will say that when the idea was thought of, it wasn't planned for sale, it was purely so that myself and my friend could keep delicate fish for ourselves a bit easier than they are currently.

So, now we've started to think about it, we're now wondering what the market would be like for one.

Would you buy one? If so, why? If not, why not?

If you would, what kind of price would you be willing to pay for one?

How "nice" would it need to look before you brought one? I.e, if it was fully functional, but didn't look very impressive, would you be less willing to buy one that if it looked like something Deltec has created?

Any input greatfully recieved.

Steve

 

[voo]

Not sure if i'd buy one, the water for my fish seems ok. Might be interested in making one though if you told us how

 

[SmileyMan]

If it works has well has you say it does then I would by a retail version.

More you can take out before its broken down the less a problem nitrate is.

Price... I think skimmers a bit over priced for what that are anyway. no more that a decent canister filter.

What it looks like... If was running a sump then i would not care a bit, But hang on or by side of tank then it have to look decent(ish)

 

[ThinIce]

Not being into marine (have been keeping freshwater for a year and a half) I'm not 100% sure what one actually is. However, if it is something to improve the water quality and thus help to ensure my fish live out their potential lifespan, then as posted above I would be happy to pay the same as for a canister filter.

The main issues as far as I'm concerned is that it can be tucked away somewhere in a cupboard or behind the tank, is easy to fit (its amazing the number of tanks with odd lids / no openings), and does not make much noise

 

[andywg]

The real problem is the lack of need. Frequent water changes are easy and cheap when there is no salt to add. Add to that the general higher tolerance of FW fish to nitrates due to their osmo-regulation system and there just isn't the need for people to want one. Discus are gradually being bred in more "standard" conditions than in years gone by. People are keeping far more sensitive fish, such as rays, now.

I would be interested in it, but only because I enjoy setting up the gizmos.

What colour skimmate are you pulling from the FW system?

 

[Lynden]

The real problem is the lack of need. Frequent water changes are easy and cheap when there is no salt to add. Add to that the general higher tolerance of FW fish to nitrates due to their osmo-regulation system and there just isn't the need for people to want one. Discus are gradually being bred in more "standard" conditions than in years gone by. People are keeping far more sensitive fish, such as rays, now.

That's kind of what I thought when I found this topic.

However it is a great idea, and it has several potential uses.

-Lynden

 

[dylema]

I would think about it for my BN fry grow out tank as the filter's bubbles are enough it make a little scum if I haven't done a water change for a few days.

I would want it to look like a finished retail product if I was to pay a retail price. I would be happy with a DIY look if I had done it myself, or got it at mates rates.

Dylan

 

[RipSlider]

Thanks for all the feedback so far guys. It's really useful for me.

As far as the skimmate goes, it started off a runny yellow colour, with the consistency of thick water. After some fiddling, it's now a brown/black colour that congeles somewhat in the cup. It's similar to marine skimmate, but not quite. More brown, less black.

It's noticiable that my colleuge, who runs a heavily stocked guppy and platy tank gets a far more "lumpy" skimmate than I do, running a tank with a bit of everything in it.

I'm going to get a few samples of it down to the Uni lab where my co-creator works, and it's going to be tested to see what's in there. Also needto get chemical sampling done of the water itself to see what's being removed and what's staying in.

The issue is that we need to work out whether it's best to do this skimming Before or After a mechanical filtration. The idea is to try to eliminate the need for bacteria as a filtration device, but removing the "crap" at source, rather than removing the results of it when it breaks down. There is however the question of whether this is the most efficient way to do it. We could guess, but it's easy enough and free to get the water actually tested, so we're going down that route.

Then I'm going to start running ozone through it, and see what happens to the chemical make up then. Also need to do a long term lest to see how the bubble plate works with ozone, and also to see how well it deals with not getting fouled.

Currently, we believed that the plate would foul rapidly, due to the way it's created, but it seems very robust, so we haven't worked on making it any less foulable, but we need to see what happens.

I have to say that as far as my test tank is concerned, the fish seem much happier than they have ever done before. However, I moved them onto a new food the day before I plumbed in the test skimmer, so I can't say for definate that this is the reason.

Steve

 

[PaulasPets]

Isn't the reason that a freshwater skimmer can't work (suposidly) the difference in surface tension, causing the foam to break before it can rise into the skimcup? Kind of like trying to make soap bubbles with clean water vs soap water.
The problem can be overcome by doing a recirculating skimmer design which will eventually have enough dirt in the skimmer to produce foam. I'm no skimmer expert, just thinking out loud...
If what I just said is true and you got the freshwater skimming working, why not try it out on a saltwater tank, you will probably have the best skimmer ever build! The RipSlider10,000 Skimmer

Anyways, I'd love to see the test results from your water sample!

 

[voo]

I have a brackish tank and in the brackish forum i've heard several people say that a protein skimmer wont work unless the SG is above 1.006, so that's unlikely in a freshwater tank.
Are you sure that what you are getting is dirt from the tank, and not mildew/mould forming as it's kept damp, or some kind of algae growing?