OP
OP
Hole In The Head
- Thread starter Miss Wiggle
- Start date
hi miss wiggle, sorry to hear about the oscar and the stress you're going through with him 
I completely agree with what nmonks said above, but since you're looking for cheap ways of helping it, the admin of another forum that im on has cured HITH with no chemicals, he literally just did 10% water changes a day, and it did the trick.
I'm not saying that you should do this, it sounds a bit risky to me, but i just want to reassure you that its not the end of the world, and to stress how important clean water can be to cure this.
I know you and Ian are feeling ill at the moment, hope you get better too, but maybe if you feel up to it then you can do plenty of water changes, and that will be a really good supplement to the meds and vits you're giving him.
Good Luck
I completely agree with what nmonks said above, but since you're looking for cheap ways of helping it, the admin of another forum that im on has cured HITH with no chemicals, he literally just did 10% water changes a day, and it did the trick.
I'm not saying that you should do this, it sounds a bit risky to me, but i just want to reassure you that its not the end of the world, and to stress how important clean water can be to cure this.
I know you and Ian are feeling ill at the moment, hope you get better too, but maybe if you feel up to it then you can do plenty of water changes, and that will be a really good supplement to the meds and vits you're giving him.
Good Luck
OP
OP
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
thanks, i was planning small daily water changes anyway, i'll be taking roughly 6 gallons of water out of the tank each day to do his bath with and replacing it with new dechlorinated water so while it's not a big water change it's at least something and i'll try and get a bit more out to make it up to 10% changes at least.
OP
OP
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
phew well it's completely knackered me but i managed to get oscar out of the tank to give him his medicated bath for 2 hrs and do a water change.
getting him out was fuuuun, i looked like i'd be taking part in a wet t shirt contest afterwards, was completely drenched didn't expect quite so much splashing! he was quite chilled once in his tub though, one little splash at first then he calmed down, was maybe a little bit too calm after 2hrs though, he just let me scoop him out of the water without the slightest splash, went head first into a bunch of plants in his tank and stayed there, i was terrified for about 30 seconds i thought i'd killed him then he came round a bit, took a few minutes before he was patrolling around the tank again but it doesn't seem to have done him any harm. just have to keep reminding myself that just cos the medicines good for him doesn't mean it's nice, he could be experiencing all sorts of side effects.
anyway managed to have a good gravel vac and do about a 10% change on the tank while he was in the bath, and he also had some vitamin enriched food before the bath so fingers crossed he'll start to recover.
thanks for all the help everyone, bit calmer now
getting him out was fuuuun, i looked like i'd be taking part in a wet t shirt contest afterwards, was completely drenched
didn't expect quite so much splashing! he was quite chilled once in his tub though, one little splash at first then he calmed down, was maybe a little bit too calm after 2hrs though, he just let me scoop him out of the water without the slightest splash, went head first into a bunch of plants in his tank and stayed there, i was terrified for about 30 seconds i thought i'd killed him then he came round a bit, took a few minutes before he was patrolling around the tank again but it doesn't seem to have done him any harm. just have to keep reminding myself that just cos the medicines good for him doesn't mean it's nice, he could be experiencing all sorts of side effects.anyway managed to have a good gravel vac and do about a 10% change on the tank while he was in the bath, and he also had some vitamin enriched food before the bath so fingers crossed he'll start to recover.
thanks for all the help everyone, bit calmer now
Ok, I’ll try to go through this in order, I’m bound to miss something & answer something twice.
The liquid vitamins for humans are the ones, usually found in the baby section of the drug store. When hith has manifested in the external form the baths are more important. As long as the fish is eating, a dose or two in the food should be plenty to knock back any internal protizoans, especially since you have a limited amount of meds & cash.
When I treat angels, and when I did my oscar when he was younger, I dose 40mg/U.S. gallon. I don’t ever recall seeing the liquid, it’s all in powder form here. Look on the metro bottle, or any paperwork that came with it, to see if there is anything stating the concentration, such as mg/ml or grams/liter. I treat for a minimum of 7 days, often 10 to 14. Metro is much cheaper here, 100 grams is $31. I could make a small fortune shipping metro overseas, if it weren’t for the certainty of incarceration for shipping an unknown powdered white substance.
If all you can afford & have to work with is the 6 gallon & 100ml, go with it. The fresh water & vitamins are more important than the meds with hith, the meds play a bigger part when it is internal & they stop eating. As long as the fish is getting vitamins you & Ian should take some vitamins as well, this helps with any illness. Fresh water will help relieve stress for the oscar, some good chicken soup will help you & Ian feel better.
I’ll give you my usual copy & paste from ms word that I usually post for the internal protozoan manifestation, you may pick out a few things I’m forgetting.
This is what I do for angels, you may want to look into the maximum temp your fish can handle. Metro was originally designed for humans, the closer you can get the tank to 98.6F the better.
Put the angel in a quar tank, I usually use a 10 gallon. Increase the temp over a day or so to 90-94F. Treat daily with 40 mg/gallon metronidazole, with 50% water changes daily. If the fish isn't eating, don't feed for the first 3 days. After 3 days, get some frozen brine shrimp. Take a portion about the size of a few match heads, and sprinkle on some metro. You have to eyeball this one, make the shrimp look kind of like a tiny powdered donut. Once it thaws, mix it in & feed. Sometimes they still don't eat for a few days, but once they start to mouth the food & spit it out, the meds seem to get in their system real good. Continue medicating the water & food for 7-10 days. Don’t forget to increase aeration, as warmer water holds less O2.
Metronidazole is sold as flagyl, het-a-mit, and a few other names I can't recall offhand, used to treat hexamita & hole in the head. They usually suggest 20mg/gallon, this often isn't enough. Metro deteriorates in 8 hours, so you could do twice daily water changes. I've done this on the weekends when I have time.
I've also added epsom salt while using metro, this helps with any constipation issues, cleans out the digestive tract. I start with 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water, increasing by 1 teaspoon daily for 2 more days to bring it up to 3 teaspoons per 10 gallons. You will have to adjust how much you use when doing water changes. You may want to give this a try.
The liquid vitamins for humans are the ones, usually found in the baby section of the drug store. When hith has manifested in the external form the baths are more important. As long as the fish is eating, a dose or two in the food should be plenty to knock back any internal protizoans, especially since you have a limited amount of meds & cash.
When I treat angels, and when I did my oscar when he was younger, I dose 40mg/U.S. gallon. I don’t ever recall seeing the liquid, it’s all in powder form here. Look on the metro bottle, or any paperwork that came with it, to see if there is anything stating the concentration, such as mg/ml or grams/liter. I treat for a minimum of 7 days, often 10 to 14. Metro is much cheaper here, 100 grams is $31. I could make a small fortune shipping metro overseas, if it weren’t for the certainty of incarceration for shipping an unknown powdered white substance.
If all you can afford & have to work with is the 6 gallon & 100ml, go with it. The fresh water & vitamins are more important than the meds with hith, the meds play a bigger part when it is internal & they stop eating. As long as the fish is getting vitamins you & Ian should take some vitamins as well, this helps with any illness. Fresh water will help relieve stress for the oscar, some good chicken soup will help you & Ian feel better.
I’ll give you my usual copy & paste from ms word that I usually post for the internal protozoan manifestation, you may pick out a few things I’m forgetting.
This is what I do for angels, you may want to look into the maximum temp your fish can handle. Metro was originally designed for humans, the closer you can get the tank to 98.6F the better.
Put the angel in a quar tank, I usually use a 10 gallon. Increase the temp over a day or so to 90-94F. Treat daily with 40 mg/gallon metronidazole, with 50% water changes daily. If the fish isn't eating, don't feed for the first 3 days. After 3 days, get some frozen brine shrimp. Take a portion about the size of a few match heads, and sprinkle on some metro. You have to eyeball this one, make the shrimp look kind of like a tiny powdered donut. Once it thaws, mix it in & feed. Sometimes they still don't eat for a few days, but once they start to mouth the food & spit it out, the meds seem to get in their system real good. Continue medicating the water & food for 7-10 days. Don’t forget to increase aeration, as warmer water holds less O2.
Metronidazole is sold as flagyl, het-a-mit, and a few other names I can't recall offhand, used to treat hexamita & hole in the head. They usually suggest 20mg/gallon, this often isn't enough. Metro deteriorates in 8 hours, so you could do twice daily water changes. I've done this on the weekends when I have time.
I've also added epsom salt while using metro, this helps with any constipation issues, cleans out the digestive tract. I start with 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water, increasing by 1 teaspoon daily for 2 more days to bring it up to 3 teaspoons per 10 gallons. You will have to adjust how much you use when doing water changes. You may want to give this a try.
idlefingers
Fish Addict
Sorry to hear about your oscar, miss wiggle. I hope he gets better soon.
Tolak; with regards to using the vitamins on pellets, is this something that's good to do on a regular basis to keep them healthy or just when they're ill? (sorry to go a little off-topic, miss wiggle)
Tolak; with regards to using the vitamins on pellets, is this something that's good to do on a regular basis to keep them healthy or just when they're ill? (sorry to go a little off-topic, miss wiggle)
A good balanced diet is key, a vitamin supplement once weekly helps. I have a home made beefheart mix that includes multivitamins, my oscar gets this about once weekly.
OP
OP
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
Thanks Tolak
it's 500mg/100ml
the price isn't too bad, ordinarily it wouldn't be a problem to get enough meds but it just so happens we've a plasterer booked for next weekend to sort out the bathroom and we've had to buy tiles, paint, taps etc to completely re-decorate the bathroom and to top it all off my car's MOT is due in a week or so. And now Ian's sick so maybe won't get paid for this week so I'll have to wait a week for his rent. Just sod's law it happens when I've really got no cash. I'll speak to the vets today and get another 100ml which should mean i can bath him for 6 days, i'll just have a look at him after 5 days and I'll have to asses then weather he needs more meds and see if i can borrow some money or something
it's 500mg/100ml
the price isn't too bad, ordinarily it wouldn't be a problem to get enough meds but it just so happens we've a plasterer booked for next weekend to sort out the bathroom and we've had to buy tiles, paint, taps etc to completely re-decorate the bathroom and to top it all off my car's MOT is due in a week or so. And now Ian's sick so maybe won't get paid for this week so I'll have to wait a week for his rent. Just sod's law it happens when I've really got no cash. I'll speak to the vets today and get another 100ml which should mean i can bath him for 6 days, i'll just have a look at him after 5 days and I'll have to asses then weather he needs more meds and see if i can borrow some money or something
OP
OP
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
well yesterdays water change was even more fun, we usually use a hose and powerhead to pump water out of the tank and then run the house from a garden type tap we've put in under the sink back into the tank, while just using a bucket for the muck we pick up from gravel vaccing. yesterday the powerhead died and the tap broke. so I did a 40% change on a 92 gallon tank just with bloody buckets, with my back i can only carry 1 gallon at a time so did about 40 trips each way. back's killing me today so just hoping I can fix at least the powerhead! 
Oscar's still happily taking his vitamin enriched food, I've been soaking all the fish in that tanks food with vitamins to help them out and he was a little happier after his bath yesterday so fingers crossed he'll be on the mend soon.
when can i expect to start to see the lesions get better? they still look the same.
Oscar's still happily taking his vitamin enriched food, I've been soaking all the fish in that tanks food with vitamins to help them out and he was a little happier after his bath yesterday so fingers crossed he'll be on the mend soon.
when can i expect to start to see the lesions get better? they still look the same.
GrantyBoy
Fish Fanatic
Hi
Can you post a pic so we can see how advanced the HITH is?
Also, where did you get the liquid vitamin to soak the food in? Like the tap under the sink idea, can you give me anymore info on this setup you have for water changes
Cheers
Grant
Can you post a pic so we can see how advanced the HITH is?
Also, where did you get the liquid vitamin to soak the food in? Like the tap under the sink idea, can you give me anymore info on this setup you have for water changes
Cheers
Grant
OP
OP
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
try and get a pic tonight if i get a chance, however with the water changes and stuff i have to do i honestly don't know if i'll have time.
i just got a standard multi vitamin tablet from a chemist adn dissolved it in a little water, then soaked the cichlid pellets in. Tolak said he's got liquid multi vitamins from the baby section of chemists but I couldn't find any so took a chance on the tablets being water soluble! they were only 99p
tap under the sink, we have no outdoor space, no yard, garden nothing, front door goes straight onto the pavement, tried to get hose attachments to connect to my kitchen sink but the taps a funny shape and none of them worked. so we have a very complex arrangement under the sink, Ian did it so I can't give you all the details but what i *think* he did is spurred off from where the cold water comes into the house (or where it goes to the sink) and put a pipe in along the side of the under the sink cupboard. We've then got two taps coming off that pipe, one is plumbed into the RO unit we use for the marine tank, the other is your bog standard garden tap with a screw bit on so we can easily connect a hose to it.
so when i'm doing water changes on the big tank i get the hose which has a powerhead attached to one end (held together with cable ties!) and stick the powerhead end in the tank and the other end in the sink. plug the powerhead in and hey presto water pumps out of the tank in the hose across the living room and kitchen and down the kitchen sink. I can just leave this draining while i use the normal siphon and bucket method to give the floor of the tank a clean and get the poop up, which usually just takes 2/3 buckets of water. Then just sit around watching telly while the tank drains to 30/40%, when it's doen i unplug the powerhead pull it up out of the water (or it'll keep siphoning water out) go to the kitchen sink, take the end of the hose out of the sink and screw it onto the garden type tap under the sink, put some dechlor in the tank, turn the tap on, watch some telly for a bit again then turn the tap off when it's done. pretty easy really
i just got a standard multi vitamin tablet from a chemist adn dissolved it in a little water, then soaked the cichlid pellets in. Tolak said he's got liquid multi vitamins from the baby section of chemists but I couldn't find any so took a chance on the tablets being water soluble! they were only 99p
tap under the sink, we have no outdoor space, no yard, garden nothing, front door goes straight onto the pavement, tried to get hose attachments to connect to my kitchen sink but the taps a funny shape and none of them worked. so we have a very complex arrangement under the sink, Ian did it so I can't give you all the details but what i *think* he did is spurred off from where the cold water comes into the house (or where it goes to the sink) and put a pipe in along the side of the under the sink cupboard. We've then got two taps coming off that pipe, one is plumbed into the RO unit we use for the marine tank, the other is your bog standard garden tap with a screw bit on so we can easily connect a hose to it.
so when i'm doing water changes on the big tank i get the hose which has a powerhead attached to one end (held together with cable ties!) and stick the powerhead end in the tank and the other end in the sink. plug the powerhead in and hey presto water pumps out of the tank in the hose across the living room and kitchen and down the kitchen sink. I can just leave this draining while i use the normal siphon and bucket method to give the floor of the tank a clean and get the poop up, which usually just takes 2/3 buckets of water. Then just sit around watching telly while the tank drains to 30/40%, when it's doen i unplug the powerhead pull it up out of the water (or it'll keep siphoning water out) go to the kitchen sink, take the end of the hose out of the sink and screw it onto the garden type tap under the sink, put some dechlor in the tank, turn the tap on, watch some telly for a bit again then turn the tap off when it's done. pretty easy really
OP
OP
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
well he had a 50% water change and a good gravel vac last night in preparation for the weekend. we're re-doing our bathroom this weekend so I'm gonna be really busy so I've no idea how much time I'll get to tend to Oscar. also the vets can't get me any more meds in until the start of next week and I've only 10ml left now, so he's getting another bath tonight but it'll be a weaker solution that it's meant to be then he'll be left to recover in his tank over the weekend, i'll try and do at least 10% changes each day to keep on top of things but i doubt i'll have time for much more. Then hopefully monday I'll pick up his new meds and can start again.
I think he's showing signs of improvement though, he was really lively last night and one of the patches seems to have shrunk a little bit. fingers crossed i caught it in time.
Then hopefully monday I'll pick up his new meds and can start again. I think he's showing signs of improvement though, he was really lively last night and one of the patches seems to have shrunk a little bit. fingers crossed i caught it in time.
OP
OP
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
bit of an update, after a completely manic weekend doing up the bathroom Oscar's not looking much better. One of the sores appears to be healing up a bit, well it's certainly not getting any worse, however the one on the other side has got worse and another one has started up. I really don't know if that means he's getting better or worse tbh?
I'm doing water changes every day I can and keeping nitrates under 20ppm, he's had vitamin food every day and is still eating well, aside from the lesions he's acting reasonably happy and well. I've run out of meds but the vets have more on order for me, hopefully they should be in today or tomorrow and I can start his bath's again (ironic that considering we have no bath in the house at present). Unfortunately this next course of meds is all I'll be able to give him unless some sort of financial miracle happens. We managed to break the new bath when we were fitting it so we've got to find the money for another one, at the moment we've nowhere to have a wash at home! I've an account with no money in but an overdraft I can eat into for emergencies so that's now completely drained to get a bath.
Been a horrible weekend and this next week won't be much better, just got to keep doing what I can for him. Preparing myself now for the possibility of having to put him down. If he doesn't respond to the meds we'll keep going with getting the water spotless etc but if he doesn't respond to meds it's unlikely he'll respond just to water changes. Bless him though if it does come to that Ian said I can just go out for the day and he won't be there when I get home so I don't have to deal with it.
It's all really sad though, there's so much horrible stuff going on at the moment, trying to stay positive despite it all but it's rubbish.
I'm doing water changes every day I can and keeping nitrates under 20ppm, he's had vitamin food every day and is still eating well, aside from the lesions he's acting reasonably happy and well. I've run out of meds but the vets have more on order for me, hopefully they should be in today or tomorrow and I can start his bath's again (ironic that considering we have no bath in the house at present). Unfortunately this next course of meds is all I'll be able to give him unless some sort of financial miracle happens. We managed to break the new bath when we were fitting it so we've got to find the money for another one, at the moment we've nowhere to have a wash at home! I've an account with no money in but an overdraft I can eat into for emergencies so that's now completely drained to get a bath.
Been a horrible weekend and this next week won't be much better, just got to keep doing what I can for him. Preparing myself now for the possibility of having to put him down. If he doesn't respond to the meds we'll keep going with getting the water spotless etc but if he doesn't respond to meds it's unlikely he'll respond just to water changes. Bless him though if it does come to that Ian said I can just go out for the day and he won't be there when I get home so I don't have to deal with it.
It's all really sad though, there's so much horrible stuff going on at the moment, trying to stay positive despite it all but it's rubbish.
GrantyBoy
Fish Fanatic
I lost my one of my Oscars a few weeks back to an internal parasite, which I think was caused by HITH. The reason I'm unsure was that he had an open wound which would not clear up nor would it get any larger, it did not look like HITH and did not spread but as you know these fish are prone to it.
He was like this for two years
I don't think you will have to look at putting him down for some time yet.
Keep up with your water changes and mix some veg into his daily pellet feeding regime. I choped odd bits into little cubes for them to eat; carrot, courgette, spinch (frozen into balls) etc.
Just like a little kid, got to keep them eating their greens
He was like this for two years
I don't think you will have to look at putting him down for some time yet.
Keep up with your water changes and mix some veg into his daily pellet feeding regime. I choped odd bits into little cubes for them to eat; carrot, courgette, spinch (frozen into balls) etc.
Just like a little kid, got to keep them eating their greens
OP
OP
Miss Wiggle
Practically perfect in every way
surely they're in pain though, if they're not going to recover and they're in a lot of pain then I think it's best to put them out of they're misery. Although it's not a descision we'll rush into or take lightly so thankyou for your input we'll certainly bear it in mind.
he always has a munch on the plecs veg that goes in, but i'll try and get some in just for him too.
he always has a munch on the plecs veg that goes in, but i'll try and get some in just for him too.
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