Hey, Hobbyist With A View To Possibly Become A Breeder

[Flying-Minnow]

Hey there I'm Minnow.

I come from lovely England/UK.

I got a biorb 30L 2 weeks ago, and doing a fish in session. I have 5 black neons in, as advised by the lady in pets at home (apparently they are the hardiest of the neons). I put them in, knowing that I may loose a few, or maby all of them, but they were cheap... but also lovely too look at.
I'm trying my best not too loose them, and trying to bring the amonia down whilst trying not to kill my fishys (they have a life after all).
I havent got any live plants in the tank due to the filter in the biorb. So I've put plastic plants in. I've got the nice loking ones, they did cost alot, but the cheap ones were ugly.
I was thinking about possibly getting some live floating plants, that then gives top dwelling fish cover, and also helps to sort out the tank. Will that work in a biorb???
In the tank I also have some rubber anemoies (sp?), they look nice as well, but I thought because they're low, it gives the bottom and middle dwelling fish some where to hide.

The media that comes with the tank, ive kept. Only because of the good qualities, but what I've done to make it pritty is got the aquatic glass cubes in different colours (even got some in the shape of a butter-fly), I just think it looks so much nicer.

As I said so far I've just got the black neons. Next week I'm going back to pets at home to get them to check my water. If it's clear of all the icky stuff, I'll put some more in.
I'm only putting 12 fish in, as it recomends. Even the worker at pets at home said I could squeeze 15 in (3 more than recomended) as long as I made weekly partial water changes, and/or get a clam.
Only problem with a clam is that they burry in media, well I've got the original media, so they won't be able to burry. So would this be possible?

The fish I want are :
Black neons x5 (already got)
black phantom tetras x2 (male and female)
Millions fish (guppys) x2 (male and female)

I was told I could fit a RTBS in there, and know I would only be able to have ONE shark in the tank because they'll fight. Is this possible, I only want to recheck, I've already asked the lady at the shop and she says it'll be ok to have A bigger fish in there.

I did want a flying fox, but the size of the fish and the size of my tank (and its habit for jumping) is making my knees shake lol. Would this be able to do?

I would like to breed fish in the future, but I want to get some experience under my belt first.
If the fish I get breed, then they breed. It's what fish do best.

I also want snails. They have apple snails at the shop, but they breed like rabbits. So I'm not sure if I should go for apple snails, or assassin snails (only because assassin snails lay one egg a month, thats so much more appealing)

tthats all for now,
thanks XD

 

[KittyKat]

I got a biorb 30L 2 weeks ago, and doing a fish in session. I have 5 black neons in, as advised by the lady in pets at home (apparently they are the hardiest of the neons). I put them in, knowing that I may loose a few, or maby all of them, but they were cheap... but also lovely too look at.

And here is your first failure. If you want to be a responsible fishkeeper (which is a pre-requisite for a good breeder). Treat your fish as you would any other animal. Would you buy a few puppies and let them starve to see which one was the strongest so you could keep him? No. So don't do things like that to fish. They are still animals, even if they can't make pathetic sounds at you when they're hurting.

I'm trying my best not too loose them, and trying to bring the amonia down whilst trying not to kill my fishys (they have a life after all).
I havent got any live plants in the tank due to the filter in the biorb. So I've put plastic plants in. I've got the nice loking ones, they did cost alot, but the cheap ones were ugly.

Do water changes often to keep ammonia and nitrite below 0.25 ppm. It is toxic more toxic in high quantities than water changes.
Hurm, the Biorbs are always a pain for plants.. but there are a few you could try such as Anubias species, Java ferns and Java moss because the first two actually can't live in a substrate and the moss should be tied to rocks or wood too. It would help the fish get through the cycle if you had live plants because they will use some of the ammonia.

I was thinking about possibly getting some live floating plants, that then gives top dwelling fish cover, and also helps to sort out the tank. Will that work in a biorb???

Maybe.. not particularly well though and could actually interfere with oxygen getting into the water.

In the tank I also have some rubber anemoies (sp?), they look nice as well, but I thought because they're low, it gives the bottom and middle dwelling fish some where to hide.

Better off getting live plants (see above).

As I said so far I've just got the black neons. Next week I'm going back to pets at home to get them to check my water. If it's clear of all the icky stuff, I'll put some more in.
I'm only putting 12 fish in, as it recomends. Even the worker at pets at home said I could squeeze 15 in (3 more than recomended) as long as I made weekly partial water changes, and/or get a clam.
Only problem with a clam is that they burry in media, well I've got the original media, so they won't be able to burry. So would this be possible?

Argh! Don't get more fish! Fish-in cycling take about 4-6+ weeks! And get your own kit. Your fish are probably swimming in ammonia even now.. you need to know the exact readings on an every day basis so you can make sure they don't get poisoned.

The fish I want are :
Black neons x5 (already got)
black phantom tetras x2 (male and female)
Millions fish (guppys) x2 (male and female)

This is way overstocked for a tank that size.. even the black neons are too large. Ideal stocking for a tank like that is something along the lines of
* 6 3cm fish such as ember tetras or espei rasboras (which black neons are not)
* some shrimp or 1 Betta

I was told I could fit a RTBS in there, and know I would only be able to have ONE shark in the tank because they'll fight. Is this possible, I only want to recheck, I've already asked the lady at the shop and she says it'll be ok to have A bigger fish in there.

If you put a shark in there.. first it will kill all the other fish and then it will die because the tank is too small for it. Please don't.

I did want a flying fox, but the size of the fish and the size of my tank (and its habit for jumping) is making my knees shake lol. Would this be able to do?

No, same as above.

I would like to breed fish in the future, but I want to get some experience under my belt first.
If the fish I get breed, then they breed. It's what fish do best.

They won't in ammonia and nitrite, so get those water changes going!

I also want snails. They have apple snails at the shop, but they breed like rabbits. So I'm not sure if I should go for apple snails, or assassin snails (only because assassin snails lay one egg a month, thats so much more appealing)

Neither of those snails breed quickly. At most, your tank will take only one apple snail though.

 

[KittyKat]

Black neons x5 (already got)
black phantom tetras x2 (male and female)
Millions fish (guppys) x2 (male and female)

Black neons are schooling fish, so should be kept in groups of 6+ and with good care will grow as large as 5cm long, which it too large for a 30 litre tank.
Phantom tetras are also schooling fish, so must be kept in groups of 6+. Again, get too large for a 30 litre aquarium and also get to 5cm with good care.
Guppies should be kept in groups of two or more females per male or in single sex groups. 3-4 males in a tank that size would work, but that would involve only shrimp as companions. Also very fragile so can easily die.

Why does the pet shop tell you that you can put all those fish in there? Because the more fish die, the more money you will spend replacing them. Yes, it really is that simple. As for the manufacturer, they only give large numbers to get you to buy the tank in the first place.

 

[Flying-Minnow]

I think you miss understood me.
I don't want to loose any fish (at all). And I stated that under that remark about knowing I'll loose fish.

I know the amonia could kill some of them off, but that's why I'm trying my best to keep them safe and alive.
I know you know best, and I will listen to your advice. But I just feel you got the wrong idea, I don't want harm to come to the fish, and I am trying to avoid deaths.

Live plants would be better for the system, I know that. But with the biorb filter, I don't think I would even be able to fit the moss in.
I deffenatly have a look into it though.

I got 5 black neons because I want to get other shoaling fish, and the fish I put down are the fish I was advised to get due to their size.
I'll deffenatly look into that again. And do some more research into this.
I was going to get angel fish, but then realised how big they get and that they would be too big for the tank, and plus they eat neons... so I swerved swiftly away from that idea.
The RTBS I was told was ok to put in, and even in my tropical a-z it says this

The RTBS is not without its drawbacks, if stocked in the aquarium early on, it will claim the tank as it's own and aggressivly chase other fish

So that means you can put them in last, I know they can "turn", but thats a risk you take with tiger barbs that are bullys, but with the right care you can curb this behaviour.
I'm just going by the info ive been given.

But I will deffo listen to your advice, and think deeply on this.

Thank you for your advice

 

[Flying-Minnow]

The pets at home shop worker has told me that any fish I loose will be replaced free of charge if I bring the recept that I STILL have, and the dead fish. They will dispose of the fish and give me live fish so I will NOT have to re-buy them.

The pets at home shop worker has told me that any fish I loose will be replaced free of charge if I bring the recept that I STILL have, and the dead fish. They will dispose of the fish and give me live fish so I will NOT have to re-buy them.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Please do not go back to whatever store has told you that a rtbs can be put into a 30L tank. The minimum tank size for one is 36 inch (91 cm) long and bigger would be even better.

Guppies will breed like rabbits- it would take one spawn to be way more than you can handle in your tank.

Tetras are egg scatterers and spawn in groups. There is 0 chance any eggs would not be eaten in a tank the size you have.

While many folks will say that schooling fish like tetras can be kept in groups of 5 or 6, that really is too few for them to behave "naturally". I would suggest that 10-12 is more like the minimum and more is even better if one can.

 

[emma12321]

Hi, biorbs are unsuitable for bottom dwelling fish due to the crappy filter rocks on the bottom, sharks are not an option in a tank so small. Apple snails lay eggs above water and you need a male and female to breed them so you can avoid population explosions. The tetras will most likely eat any babies that the guppies have. Personally in a tank so small i would only keep a single fighing fish or a small group of one of the pygmy rasboras.

 

[KittyKat]

I think you miss understood me.
I don't want to loose any fish (at all). And I stated that under that remark about knowing I'll loose fish.

I know the amonia could kill some of them off, but that's why I'm trying my best to keep them safe and alive.
I know you know best, and I will listen to your advice. But I just feel you got the wrong idea, I don't want harm to come to the fish, and I am trying to avoid deaths.

I can see that, BUT you did not do your research first or you would have known that there is a safer way, so it is a good opportunity to learn for next time

Live plants would be better for the system, I know that. But with the biorb filter, I don't think I would even be able to fit the moss in.
I deffenatly have a look into it though.

Do look into it, even a few strings of moss around the filter pipe would be better than nothing.

I got 5 black neons because I want to get other shoaling fish, and the fish I put down are the fish I was advised to get due to their size.
I'll deffenatly look into that again. And do some more research into this.
I was going to get angel fish, but then realised how big they get and that they would be too big for the tank, and plus they eat neons... so I swerved swiftly away from that idea.
The RTBS I was told was ok to put in, and even in my tropical a-z it says this

The RTBS is not without its drawbacks, if stocked in the aquarium early on, it will claim the tank as it's own and aggressivly chase other fish

So that means you can put them in last, I know they can "turn", but thats a risk you take with tiger barbs that are bullys, but with the right care you can curb this behaviour.
I'm just going by the info ive been given.

Erm, yeah.. you might want to stop reading the stocking recommendations in the a-z. It's probably great for learning how to ID fish and the scientific names.. but leave it at that. Lots of better resources on the net, use them! They're free So, let me try to explain..

A black neon is an active schooling fish, this means you want at least 60cm of tank length for it to move in. Putting a fish like that in a small tank will make it all cramped and it won't grow properly. Yes, it will fit, it will live.. but further down the line it will have health problems. They live for 10+ years so imagine what it would be like if for 10 years a fish would never really be able to stretch it's muscles?

You're right to stay away from angels, same reason as above, but they need even larger tanks. I personally wouldn't even think of keeping them in anything under 4ft long.

Red tailed black sharks are just aggressive. It doesn't really matter when you add them, those fish just have a plain nasty temper, and as the OP says, a 3ft tank is a minimum for them to be able to move properly.

As for tiger barbs.. well, they're boisterous, but they're only aggressive if not kept in large enough schools. By large, I am talking about 15+.. that just goes to show that schools really do matter!

The pets at home shop worker has told me that any fish I loose will be replaced free of charge if I bring the recept that I STILL have, and the dead fish. They will dispose of the fish and give me live fish so I will NOT have to re-buy them.

..in a fish-in cycle, it's not a matter of "lose", it's a matter of "kill by ammonia poisoning". This is exactly what I'm trying to get at: it's not about the money, it's about an animal's life.

Please do not go back to whatever store has told you that a rtbs can be put into a 30L tank. The minimum tank size for one is 36 inch (91 cm) long and bigger would be even better.

Guppies will breed like rabbits- it would take one spawn to be way more than you can handle in tour tank.

Tetras are egg scatterers and spawn in groups. There is 0 chance any eggs would not be eaten in a tank the size you have.

While many folks will say that schooling fish like tetras can be kept in groups of 5 or 6, that really is too few for them to behave "naturally". I would suggest that 10-12 is more like the minimum and more is even better if one can.

+1 on all. Unfortunately, a 30 litre tank is far too small for a decent school of any fish..

 

[-FighterFishh]

I disagree completely that you can't plant up a biOrb with live plants, since I've done it myself in my 30L ;D

I think I've got a java fern in there, and some other bits.
I've also stocked it with all non-aggressive small fish. My largest is the black molly at the front. My tank is probably overstocked even with only 10 fish in there. I really don't believe that 12 fish can actually fit in a 30L biOrb without any problems, but that's just my opinion.
Luckily, I have liquid test kits which allow me to keep an eye on the water paras and make sure that the fish are okay!
I'd say that the black tetras are wrong for the tank, even though they're pretty. I myself am going to put in around 6 female fighters when the current fish have passed away (not for quite a while then, I hope!) as they shouldn't fight and 6 I think is a nice stocking to have in the 30L
If you have any questions on the biorb or anything please don't hesitate to drop me a message

 

[Danbarb]

Please tell me if I am wrong. But it's not just water quality, surely it is the space and "hiding space" that is also an issue here? Fish welfare issue much? This post, although I see the good intentions of the original poster seems to be advocating fish in cycling as "OK", because he/she won't be losing out on either fish or money. That's not the right way to look at it IMHO.

I personally think anything under 30 litres is no good unless it's for very small fish, that are comfortable in groups or solitary. I only use my 30 litre tank for fry, and when they are about 2cm big they go into a large tank with the same water parameters. I don't know why they sell these 30 litre tanks and claim they are "fish tanks". They should be shrimp tanks or quarantine or breeding tanks in my opinion.

Just my 2 cents/pence worth.

 

[CrazyAirborne]

good luck.