Helping Others Observation

[Lovesfish]

It seems like alot of people in the saltwater part of this fourm like to critize noobs and yell at them and call them stupid for making a few errors. I really don't think its the best way to one save whatever they have and 2 encourage them to fix it. I think everyone should be more understanding and not beat people up about mistakes they have made. I was reading a post where a person just assumed a person went back to the same fish store without even reading the posts becuase it said he had been to several different stores. I love this fourm and all I Just wish people would hold more respect for other people and help them instead of hindering them just and observation you might want to take note of. Dave

 

[Aquascaper]

I've never seen anyone call another member stupid and i'm sure a Moderator would step in if they did.

Yes, new members come on and make a post and get criticised for the errors they've made but if you look at the posts the errors made are more often than not simple, basic errors that there is no excuse for such as overstocking, not cycling, wrong parameters, etc.
The number one rule in Marine fishkeeping is do research and it cannot be emphasied enough. This side of the hobby is totally different to freshwater and its easy to make costly mistakes, if someone is not even prepared to learn the basics then they shouldn't expect much sympathy when things go wrong.
If the same person goes on to make more mistakes after being informed of the correct course of action then , IMO, they should just be ignored rather than argued with.

 

[Lovesfish]

there is a nice way of going about it and there is a bad way to go about it and critizing a person for making silly errors when they are new isn't the best way becuase it only dicourages them from trying to fix the problem and makes them feel really bad about it which only worsens the situation for the livestock that they have in the tank.

 

[Chac]

There have been quiet a few Newbie's aksing basic questions only not to take the advice given - and going off on a tangent that they believe is right

Remeber Lovefish we are talking about Life or death for there livestock so if people do get annoyed it is IMO understandable, as again IMO Livestock is more important than a bruised ego

Like Aqua.. I have not seen anyone call anyone stupid etc just for asking a basic question, what I have seen is experienced reefers/member getting frustrated by Newbie's lack of research or care of/for there livestock

There is for example a question on Marine and Reef Chit Chat enquiring to the usage of Sea Lab #28, this is a valide question in that the member wanted to know info on a product he was unsure of, now on the flip side a question for example

"I set my tank up yesterday and have a high Ammonia reading - what is wrong with my tank??" - This IMO is just foolish, the answers to this question would have been covered had the person did some reasearch on this subject

We are all here to help and we wouldnt be here if we didnt want to

 

[Aquascaper]

We are all here to help and we wouldn't be here if we didnt want to

A very succinct point Chac

As Chac mentions there always seems to be two types of Newbie:

Type A: Asks pertinent questions after doing basic research such as "Would this fish list be ok for my tank", "I have 'x' can I add 'y'" and so on

Type B: Asks questions after doing no research and wants quick fix answers such as "I've got 'x' and it's dying, what can I do", "My waters great with only a little Ammonia now, when can I add fish"

Type A will gain respect from the other members, will have posts answered quickly and concisely and will go on to have a wonderful tank.
Type B will float from forum to forum, tread to thread until they get the answers they want to hear. They will never fully understand the background of their tank, the processes and proceedures, and will never achieve a wonderful tank.

It's very easy for new members to fall into Type A or B but it also very easy for the new member to move from one to the other. There have been a few prime examples of this recently where a Type B Newbie has arrived and been given advice, responded to it and gone on to become a Type A. Unfortunately, there has been a few examples of Type B Newbies arriving and staying Type B but that's life.

That's the way of the world, you choose to either listen to the advice given and act on it or ignore it and do your own thing. What you can't do is moan when things go wrong to the people who told you what to do to avoid it.

My advice to any new members would be, just as there's more than one way to answer a question, there's more than one way to pose a question. What I mean by that is think about what you're asking, is it something that could be answered by a quick read of the pinned topics? Nothing frustrates people more than a question that is answered fully in a pinned topic (especially if its been created by them). Everyone realises that the same questions are asked over and over again so use the search function before adding to the long list.

(This is not a rule or a guideline, all it is is an example)

"I've got algae growing all over my tank! How do I get rid of it?"

"I've had a look on the forum and I think i've got a hair algae problem. What are the best ways to combat this?"

Which one would you rather answer? Which one will get the more detailed response?

JMO

 

[crazyelece]

I agree on the pinned topics. I can't stand when a question comes up that has been fully answered more than once and in that area for a reason. On the other hand everyone's situation is unique and the real answer (and question for that matter) may need a little more indepth discussion than the pinned topic gives. This I see as a superb question or topic to bring up.

Also, the marine environment is and always will be placed on a higher level than freshwater. Whether its right or not is a mute point. The cost involved makes keeping a marine tank more than just a hobby to pass the time. Marine keepers truly get involved in their tanks and most of the experienced ones have had their tanks and inhabitants long enough to make very tight bonds with the animals under their keep. A monkey could keep a 10 gal tank with some guppies going. It takes much more care and effort with marines. This causes the experienced marine keeper to be very passionate about their beliefs and ideas. This gets transfered to the comments one makes to topics found here.

When we see someone (a newbie) make huge costly mistakes, we are not going to sit back and pat them on the back and say its all right, maybe if you try it again not so many fish/coral/etc will die the next time. We will firmly tell them they have started on a major slope towards total failure and that if they truly would like to enter the marine realm they need to know how involved it is and what is truly expected of them. After that the next step is theirs.

 

[@ombomb]

I think part of the problem (on the FW baords as well) is that many people (like I did a long time ago) only find a forum when they have already stumbled head first into a problem, do a Google search and find somewhere to ask their question.

I wonder if there would be a way to change the way people post to say a social / discussion topic and another type which is a HELP topic which prompts the user to list the tank set up / params in as much detail as possible.

Just a thought.

 

[Themuleous]

Some interesting points here people. I made exactly this mistake when I first joined (although I was always keen on research), when I just asked general ‘help’ type questions after joining. However, I was shown the error of my ways politely and now I feel that the people on here, as so rightly pointed out, have come to respect (well that’s what I hope anyway ) my views and opinions. But the initial 'mistakes' I made have taught me what its like to be on the other side and how stupid you feel in yourself for having got it so badly wrong. I've not been on here for very long, but the need to help 'newbie' people is clearly apparent to me. After all, if one were to get annoyed with a newbie, and they decide to abandon the forum, surely this can only be to the detriment of their fish. Would it not be better (and I’m sure 99% of people on here do) to encourage them and work through their problem so they too can fully appreciate their tanks and have happy and healthy fish. Someone who has spent several hundreds of pounds on a marine tank surely can't be THAT naive about the implications of running it?

Also, while I appreciate that marine tanks are ultra 'modern' equipment wise, to say that a FW tank owner doesn't get attached to him/her fish (even plants sometimes, check out gf225 profile at the end) is something I would have cause to debate. Fully planted tanks need lots of equipment, over and above that for just keeping fish, and they also require plenty of effort and maintenance to keep them top notch.

Sam

 

[steelhealr]

Dave....let me reassure you that, as a new moderator, I would never tolerate anyone, freshwater or saltwater, throwing abusive language at any member here. I know Navarre would feel the same way. I strongly believe in the adage that the only stupid question is the one that is not asked.

Whether your tank is planted, fresh or saltwater, each one has challenging issues. I would never be one to say that marine is 'tougher' than others, but, one fact I feel strongly about: demise comes quickly in a saltwater tank and when death comes knocking, everyone/everything is threatened. Now, this is still not an excuse for treating any newcomer rudely, but, as a group, I think marine aquarists are, well, let's say, battle hardened. My fellow members can correct me if I'm wrong, but, the losses seem to sting more with a marine (and I have two FW tanks that I am very fond of). Maybe our failing is that as a group, we get baffled or frustrated when advice given, based on past experiences, is not taken into consideration. But...doesn't that happen in FW as well?

My interest in nano tanks began here with a TFF member in winter '04. I migrated out to another forum to get expertise in nano reefing and then returned here because I think it's a great forum. My first post at the other forum went unanswered. I thought it was a 'rough neighborhood', but, I met gurus and then returned here to the place where I started. It's a very good forum. I've taken my lumps in post responses. We all have to roll with the punches. This forum, like life, or other forums, can give you a bloody nose. In the movie Batman Begins, the line goes that the reason we fall is to learn how to get up.

In summary Dave, I think that there are many times, both in fresh and salt, the posters can be gruff, haughty and even seem to have forgotten that they were newbs too once. That behavior is unimpressive, but, that is their problem. But...we should all be respectful of each other and be patient. We will never get people to read pins, hit the search button first or scroll down the page to see if a question is being repeated. Such is life.....flashing your lights and tailgating will never get the person to move out of the left lane (or is it right in the UK? lol). Pass and move on.

SH

 

[Aquascaper]

Well said SH

Back in June '04 I was a 'Type B' with 2 goldfish and a shubunkin in a 20g, my LFS was God and I wouldn't accept that keeping 2 goldfish that require 40g between them in a tank half that size along with a pond fish was wrong

I rolled with the punches and took the hits from those that felt that pond fish shouldn't be in an aquarium full stop and eventually gave them away. The tank went on to become a puffer tank, then I got another tank and another until I had 7 tanks running at one point

Each time I set up a tank I made mistakes (I still do), the biggest ones being not listening to the only people offering advice and wanting nothing in return apart from pictures of my tanks.

I think there's quite a few of us on this forum who've walked the same path and I guess that's why it becomes hard to take it on the chin when newbies ignore sound advice.