Help With The Final Stage Of Fishless Cycling

[fishman3]

guys i am 5 days into my qualifying week by my calculations and all is going very well.

when the time comes to put new fish in probably next weekend now how do i go about doing it?

i was thinking;

after last dose of ammonia has reduced to 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites do a large water change and allow the tank to come up to temp then go get fish. my question is how long can i leave it before the water change and adding the fish without upsetting the bacterial colony?

Help much appreciated!

Phil

 

[fatheadminnow]

guys i am 5 days into my qualifying week by my calculations and all is going very well.

when the time comes to put new fish in probably next weekend now how do i go about doing it?

i was thinking;

after last dose of ammonia has reduced to 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites do a large water change and allow the tank to come up to temp then go get fish. my question is how long can i leave it before the water change and adding the fish without upsetting the bacterial colony?

Help much appreciated!

Phil

If your filter can take 5 ppm of ammonia and process it all the way to nitrate in 12 hours, (ammonia and nitrite will be zero then) then you are cycled. After that has happened, continue cycling and adding ammonia for a week, as there might be a slight nitrite spike, and better have that happen without fish in the tank.

After that, like you stated do a large water change, making sure your nitrate is at a good level. Then get fish.

VERY IMPORTANT...do not add your full stocking level of fish at one time, as there will be an ammonia spike...not good.

Instead, add a couple fish at a time, allowing about a week in between adding more fish. This will allow your bacteria to colonize enough to the amount of fish you have in there, and then will be ready to add more.

There should not be much of a change in "upsetting the bacteria colony."

If after you add fish and you see an ammonia spike, just do a water change to bring it back down. If that does happen, just keep doing that until the bacteria have colonized enough, relative to the amount of fish you have.

Hope it all works out!
-FHM

 

[waterdrop]

Phil, the bacterial colonies will only lose about 1-2% of their population per day of not getting ammonia for the first few days, so its really not a significant worry. They will be fine. You'll get the fish in there the same day or worse case perhaps the next morning and the bacteria will start getting their nice low flow of ammonia and they'll be fine.

I don't know how long it takes you heater to bring things back up but of course you could help that a bit by adding some hot kettle water to your batches of tap water or you could use hot tap water if you've got a system that doesn't put a lot of heavy metals in the water, like the typical american glass lined water heater.. can't remember your water heater situation of course.

You're ok on fish transfer techniques and all that I assume.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[fishman3]

Phil, the bacterial colonies will only lose about 1-2% of their population per day of not getting ammonia for the first few days, so its really not a significant worry. They will be fine. You'll get the fish in there the same day or worse case perhaps the next morning and the bacteria will start getting their nice low flow of ammonia and they'll be fine.

I don't know how long it takes you heater to bring things back up but of course you could help that a bit by adding some hot kettle water to your batches of tap water or you could use hot tap water if you've got a system that doesn't put a lot of heavy metals in the water, like the typical american glass lined water heater.. can't remember your water heater situation of course.

You're ok on fish transfer techniques and all that I assume.

~~waterdrop~~

WD thanks, i think so the usual proceedure i used for my coldwater tank is floating for 20ish mins, adding some of the tank water into the bag for another 10 mins and then releasing into the tank (with a net so as to avoid putting the water the fish has been in for the whole time into the tank with them) this ok?

Phil

 

[waterdrop]

That's excellent.. even added the little net detail which I would have had to write, lol.

Good luck Phil.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Rubyuk]

guys i am 5 days into my qualifying week by my calculations and all is going very well.

when the time comes to put new fish in probably next weekend now how do i go about doing it?

i was thinking;

after last dose of ammonia has reduced to 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites do a large water change and allow the tank to come up to temp then go get fish. my question is how long can i leave it before the water change and adding the fish without upsetting the bacterial colony?

Help much appreciated!

Phil

If your filter can take 5 ppm of ammonia and process it all the way to nitrate in 12 hours, (ammonia and nitrite will be zero then) then you are cycled. After that has happened, continue cycling and adding ammonia for a week, as there might be a slight nitrite spike, and better have that happen without fish in the tank.

After that, like you stated do a large water change, making sure your nitrate is at a good level. Then get fish.

VERY IMPORTANT...do not add your full stocking level of fish at one time, as there will be an ammonia spike...not good.

Instead, add a couple fish at a time, allowing about a week in between adding more fish. This will allow your bacteria to colonize enough to the amount of fish you have in there, and then will be ready to add more.

There should not be much of a change in "upsetting the bacteria colony."

If after you add fish and you see an ammonia spike, just do a water change to bring it back down. If that does happen, just keep doing that until the bacteria have colonized enough, relative to the amount of fish you have.

Hope it all works out!
-FHM

I'm hoping to be in this position very soon and am a little confused now.

Initially I was planning on stocking slowly and gradually as you suggest but loads of posts I've seen on here and other sites suggest that when fishless cycling this way at the end it is possible to fully stock and that to only stock a couple of fish at a time actually negates the big colony of friendly bacteria that you''ve built up by adding and converting 5ppm of ammonia each day and that if you only put a few fish in at a time then your bacteria will die back down.

I'd be grateful for some further clarification on this as whilst I wasn't planning on stocking fully I was certainly looking at putting a good third of my total stock in to begin with as thats what we've built the big colonoy of bacteria up for or so i've read/been told

 

[fatheadminnow]

I'm hoping to be in this position very soon and am a little confused now.

Initially I was planning on stocking slowly and gradually as you suggest but loads of posts I've seen on here and other sites suggest that when fishless cycling this way at the end it is possible to fully stock and that to only stock a couple of fish at a time actually negates the big colony of friendly bacteria that you''ve built up by adding and converting 5ppm of ammonia each day and that if you only put a few fish in at a time then your bacteria will die back down.

Oops..yes you are right...I was thinking about fish-in cycle for some reason...
Even still...to be on the safe side...I would still not go right to the extreme, and add all the fish at once...just because it may be stressful for the fish. And you never know...if you add all the fish at once...you may get an ammonia spike just because all the fish you add; together might produce more than 5ppm of ammonia.

I just got done with a fish-in cycle so that is why I said that.

-FHM

 

[waterdrop]

Well, IF your total planned stock were all comprised of fish that are hardy enough (or you're willing to take the risk with) to go in to a new tank, then the 5ppm colonies will definately have made your tank ready for the full stocking in terms of being fully cycled. The problem usually is that for most people, some portion of their planned stocking is comprised of fish that somehow are reported to do better if introduced to an older tank. The classic example is with neons/cardinals. These fish have just built up a long time reputation among hobbyists that they somehow seem to die quite frequently when introduced to tanks that are less than 6 months old or so. It is thought this is due to something quite different from cycling, although in many cases of this kind of "worry," we might attribute the worry to poor cycling situations that raised the rumors in the first place! There are just some fish that responsible fishkeepers are hesitant to put in a new tank, regardless of how well its cycled. In other cases there are fish that people say to wait on but experienced hobbyists will tell you, no, they just need a well-cycled tank. In the end, for each of us, we just have to take what advice we can get and give it a try with whatever we think best.

The other consideration besides the "delicate" consideration like neons, is the money consideration. Many hobbyists, I believe, will often wait to introduce their "centerpiece" fish, especially if they are expensive, after the tank has aged 3 or 6 months or whatever type advice they can find in the species-specific forums.

Anyway, I subscribe to the camp that feels that the big colonies that are built up in a new filter by doing the full 5ppm treatment are really all about the creation of a "robust" biofilter that is not going to mini-cycle on you during your first weeks with fish when you are really sensitive and worried about them. To me it doesn't matter if I didn't fully stock as long as I got a good batch of interesting, hardy first set of fish in there to keep me entertained until the next ones can start slowly coming in. I guess it kind of depends too on whether you'd like to introduce bigger fish or big shoals and not have it drag out, that'd be a consideration too. Anyway, I may not be typical but it didn't bother me to not fully stock initially and then to be aware that I would have to do smaller introductions at some later point to allow the colonies to add to themselves as the fish population grew. The drop-down in bacterial population if you don't fully stock is just not as important a thing as I see it as the fact that the initial biofilter needs to be quite robust.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

WD has already said that your method is OK and it probably is. I am a conservative fish keeper by my nature so I would do a drip acclimation with any new fish. You basically put the fish and bag water into a bucket and start dripping water into the bucket from the tank. After a half hour or more when your water in the bucket has tripled in volume, the fish can be netted into the tank and will do great.

 

[Rubyuk]

I'm hoping to be in this position very soon and am a little confused now.

Initially I was planning on stocking slowly and gradually as you suggest but loads of posts I've seen on here and other sites suggest that when fishless cycling this way at the end it is possible to fully stock and that to only stock a couple of fish at a time actually negates the big colony of friendly bacteria that you''ve built up by adding and converting 5ppm of ammonia each day and that if you only put a few fish in at a time then your bacteria will die back down.

Oops..yes you are right...I was thinking about fish-in cycle for some reason...
Even still...to be on the safe side...I would still not go right to the extreme, and add all the fish at once...just because it may be stressful for the fish. And you never know...if you add all the fish at once...you may get an ammonia spike just because all the fish you add; together might produce more than 5ppm of ammonia.

I just got done with a fish-in cycle so that is why I said that.

-FHM

Thanks for that.

I'm relieved now as i thought months of planning/reading about my stocking plans had gone down the tubes

As Waterdrop has also said,I wasn't planning on putting everything in to begin with as I know certain of my stock need a more mature set up etc but certainly some of my hardy shoaling fish or hardy pairs were going to get homed on day one.....whenever that arrives

 

[OldMan47]

If you have finished your qualifying week, you should be fine with the hardier part of your final stocking. There is no reason to play the one or two at a time game with a fishless cycled tank, that is for people who couldn't take the time to do things right.

 

[cooldude]

If you have used 5ppm of ammonia for cycling, you can add about 3/4 of the final tank capacity at once. Water change is required only if you have nitrate readings, otherwise can add fish directly.

Check for the fish before buying. These should not have white mouth or white spots around the mouth. This is highly contagious.

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