Help with parasites after months long battle..

[zen_vibe]

Hello all
I'm new to the forum and would love any advice anyone has to offer on a flashing problem I've been dealing with since November.

I have a 75 gallon freshwater community tank. I test the water regularly and everything always looks fine. The tank has been fully cycled for over a year. I noticed in November that the Gouramis started flashing and soon after most of the other fish started flashing. I originally tried treating with General Cure following the directions and the problem seemed to go away while the meds were in the tank, but came back shortly after. I then tried treating with aquarium salt starting at one tablespoon per three gallons then increasing to one tablespoon per two gallons for 10 days. The problem stopped with the salt was in the aquarium, but came back after doing several regular water changes without adding any more salt. I tied another 10 days at one tablespoon per two gallons with the same result. I didn't go any higher as I read that some types of catfish and loaches struggle above that level of salt. I then tried Prazipro treating the tank for three days on/ four days off for four weeks. The problem seems to stop while the meds are in the tank, but comes back as soon as I put the carbon back in and do a water change. I tried one more week of seven days straight on and did a big water change and put the carbon back in yesterday. It seems like they are already starting to flash today. No fish have died in many months, they all eat and look great. Any help on where to go next is greatly appreciated. My son and I do this hobby together and we are rookies.

 

[zen_vibe]

Hello all,
I'm still trying to work though this problem. Does anyone have any experience using Prazipro and salt at the same time? I can't find anything on this on the web. Any help is appreciated.

 

[Uberhoust]

Have you seen the parasites? I would be reluctant to add a treatment for external parasites if the only evidence is flashing. Flashing might be caused by something else in the water other than parasites. I am assuming you water tests are showing the Ammonia and Nitrite at 0, and hopefully the nitrate is less than 20 ppm.

One thing I would say is that if the fish flash with the carbon in the filter do not add the carbon back. Typically a well established tank will not need carbon in the filtration.

Overall, there is not enough information in your request to truly help with the issue I would suggest that you state how the fish are flashing, what fish are in the tank, what the water parameters are ie Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH and if you can GH and KH. A photo of the tank might be helpful too. The reason the meds might seem to be working is that the fish are not behaving normally when they are medicated, ie they are not feeling well, so they don't have the energy or desire to flash, note this is all supposition.

It has been my experience that if you start with the information you will get a better response. Pictures always help.

Good luck

 

[Colin_T]

Fish can rub on objects in tanks for several reasons, poor water quality or external parasites. Velvet and white spot can cause fish to rub on things and velvet can be difficult to spot until it has heavily infected a fish.

API General Cure contains Praziquantel and Metronidazole.
Praziquantel is used to treat tapeworm.
Metronidazole is an anti-biotic that does nothing to external parasites.

Salt does not treat white spot or velvet but does treat other external protozoan parasites like Costia, Chilodonella & Trichodina. These show up as cream, white or grey patches on the fish.

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If you photograph the fish using a camera that has the flash on, if should show up any velvet as a gold or yellow sheen over part or all of the body.

White spot will be seen on the fish as small white dots.

Pictures of the fish will help us spot possible infections.

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You can treat white spot and velvet with heat (30C/ 86F) for 2 weeks or at least 1 week after all the spots have gone. You can also use copper or Malachite Green based medications. However, copper will kill snails and shrimp, and Malachite Green is a carcinogen (causes cancer). Copper and Malachite Green based medications will also kill other external protozoan parasites like the 3 listed above.


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SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

Firstly, parasites entered your tank through infected fish, snails or plants.
Did you introduce any new fish, snails or plants in November or a few weeks before Nov?
If yes, then it's high chance that your fish are having flukes(parasites) which is a common disease.
Or if you fish only started to flash after the introduction of new fish, then most likely it's due to parasites.

But if there is no introduction of new fish and plants, then most likely it's not due to parasites.

Secondly, since they responded to your treatment with API general cure and salt, there is possibility that your diagnosis is correct.

Thirdly, observe their flashing or scratching.
If they scratched quite badly like there is something stick to their body, then mostly likely it's due to flukes though other parasites can also cause them to scratch.
The flukes will hook on to their body and feed on them making them very "itchy" and they will scratch and scratch until the fluke is removed from them.

API General cure contains Praziquantel which is the same ingredient as Prazipro.
But the biggest problem with flukes are, it's very hard to eradicate them completely from your tank because the eggs can take longer time to hatch.
And the next generation of flukes can build resistance to the medications.
You will need to treat your tank for a minimum of 1.5 month to 2 months and provided that the medication is effective.
In my last treatment for my Discus, I had to treat for 3months + to eradicate them from my tank.
You can also use salt but you must not use it for more than 4 weeks as mentioned by Colin.
My suggestion is to use the Prazipro for 1.5 months and continue with salt for another 3 weeks to have a total of 2months+.

Make sure that the Prazipro(Praziquantel) or salt are effective during your treatment.
If they fish stop scratching or scratch less, it means the medication is working and effective.
But if the medication is not effective, then you will have to switch to other stronger medication like Seachem Paraguard though the duration of treatment may still be the same.

Take note due to the overuse of medications by the fish farms, sometimes Praziquantel becomes less effective.

*Lastly, my diagnosis are based on the assumptions that your tank water's quality is good and you don't have too low pH, other irritants in your water or other parasites like velvet and ich.*
Velvet and Ich will kill fish quite fast.
If there is no fish that die, then you can rule out Velvet and Ich.

Extra information:
Majority of Discus' keepers have experience with flukes.
You can search other forum that discuss about Discus fish, and you will find that discussing about how to treat both skin flukes and gill flukes.
Flukes are deadly when they are in big numbers if they attack the fish gills.
The fish will die slowly when they cannot breathe any more due to the fluke infections and secondary bacterial infection.
And often you will find that before the fish die, they will have fast breathing.