Help-tank not cycling

[Gray Mare]

Hi everyone!

I had an unfortunate event where my goldfish tank started leaking. I exchanged it with the supplier, but for a bigger one. I used all of my old tank water (was around 50% and 50% was new water) as well as my old ‘Matrix’ and sponge to try and keep the beneficial bacteria.

The new tank has been set up for about 1 month. But, even with using ‘Prime’ each day and beneficial bacteria, I get ammonia levels at around 4ppm (API’s test kit) I also use Seachem’s Ammonia Alert and this is constantly in the yellow (safe) zone.

My tank is 52L, has 4 young oranda’s in it and two plants.

The fish does not have any indications of ammonia poisoning and does not seem bothered.

I am doing 25% water changes once a week. I did water changes every other day, but this did not assist with the ammonia levels. I therefore I stopped doing this as I felt I remove some of the beneficial bacteria. I use a gravel vac with each water change and the substrate is not dirty at all. I scoop out their floating poop each morning. They eat all their food and none is left to sink into the substrate.

Is there anyone who might know why I still struggle with Ammonia readings so high even after a month?

Thank you in advance!

 

[MaloK]

Goldfish are notorious ammonia producer and a step back in bacteria colony can easily lead to astronomic levels.

Gently rinse your filter media in tank water to bring back water flow as high as possible. Seed the filter directly with bacteria And add some strong supplementary aeration to the tank.

Cut back on food to once every 3 days, persist with water changes to keep both ammonia and nitrite at tolerable level.

Don't let go, goldfish gives the impression that they are more resistant to ammonia and nitrite poisoning, but it's not true, prolonged exposure is always detrimental.

Normally I try not to suggest products, but if you can get your hand on a small bottle of Fluval Biological Enhancer, mix half the bottle with water and put in.

 

[Gray Mare]

Goldfish are notorious ammonia producer and a step back in bacteria colony can easily lead to astronomic levels.

Gently rinse your filter media in tank water to bring back water flow as high as possible. Seed the filter directly with bacteria And add some strong supplementary aeration to the tank.

Cut back on food to once every 3 days, persist with water changes to keep both ammonia and nitrite at tolerable level.

Don't let go, goldfish gives the impression that they are more resistant to ammonia and nitrite poisoning, but it's not true, prolonged exposure is always detrimental.

Normally I try not to suggest products, but if you can get your hand on a small bottle of Fluval Biological Enhancer, mix half the bottle with water and put in.

Thank you for the reply!

I have the following bacteria in a bottle (as on photo) (I see we do not get that specific Fluval in SA).

If you say to mix half a bottle of Fluval and add it to their tank-is that the normal directions for the Fluval? Why I am asking is I am giving only the prescribed dosage. Although the bottle says for the first 2 weeks everyday, I have been giving this for around 3 weeks now. Do I need to add more?

I do see some algae bloom in my tank. Can the bacteria cause that? I do not mind, I just clean it. The water parameters are more important for me. I had two Apple Snails in there to help with the algae, but they unfortunately did not make it. I think the water parameters were not stable back then. So no algae eaters at the moment until I resolve this issue first.

Again, thank you for your reply!

 

[MaloK]

No, in reality I was suggesting nearly 20 times the normal dose. I use a quarter of a 120 ml btl to start a 5 gallons.

The risk implied doing so is a rapid change in nutrients balance in the tank, It's not dangerous for fish, But it can cause a bacterial bloom and also algae could try to take advantage of it.

When the sudden bacteria multiplication occurs It is primordial to over-oxygenate the water, This will insure your fish can breathe correctly and help with the establishing bacteria.

If your tank produce a lots of ammonia you may need to perform water changes to prevent blooming to overwhelm the tank.

If you been using this product since the beginning and nothing is kicking in, I would start to think something happened to the bottle and it went bad.

 

[Colin_T]

Have you got chlorine or chloramine in the tap water?
Test the tap water for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. If the tap water has no ammonia, nitrite or nitrate, do a 75% water change any day you have an ammonia or nitrite reading above 0ppm.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

The test kit or the ammonia alert badge could be faulty. Take a glass full of tank water to the local pet shop and ask them to test it for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Take your test kits and test the same sample at the same time. If you get different reading then one of the test kits is stuffed.

 

[Gray Mare]

Hi Colin,

Thank you so much for your reply.

The water I am using is distilled water and no chlorine, ammonia etc present. I have 2 other tanks on which I use the same test kits with (I assume) is correct readings.

I have done a 75% water change yesterday and the ammonia levels are still high even after the water change.

I am doing a fish less cycle in another tank an even that ammonia levels are stabilising with the bacteria I am using. So I am not sure why my gold fish tank is not stabilising.

 

[Gray Mare]

No, in reality I was suggesting nearly 20 times the normal dose. I use a quarter of a 120 ml btl to start a 5 gallons.

The risk implied doing so is a rapid change in nutrients balance in the tank, It's not dangerous for fish, But it can cause a bacterial bloom and also algae could try to take advantage of it.

When the sudden bacteria multiplication occurs It is primordial to over-oxygenate the water, This will insure your fish can breathe correctly and help with the establishing bacteria.

If your tank produce a lots of ammonia you may need to perform water changes to prevent blooming to overwhelm the tank.

If you been using this product since the beginning and nothing is kicking in, I would start to think something happened to the bottle and it went bad.

Hi,

Thank you so much for your reply!

I am doing a fish less cycle in another tank in which I use the same bottle of bacteria. And after around 2 weeks of using the prescribed dosage the ammonia and nitrates are coming down fast.

I started dosing a bit more into my gold fish tank. They have a strong air pump with air stone connected to it for additional oxygen and water movement for a while now.

I did a 75% water change yesterday and the ammonia levels are still high after the water change.

I have no idea why this tank does not get the ammonia levels to lower.

 

[MaloK]

Hi Colin,

Thank you so much for your reply.

The water I am using is distilled water and no chlorine, ammonia etc present. I have 2 other tanks on which I use the same test kits with (I assume) is correct readings.

I have done a 75% water change yesterday and the ammonia levels are still high even after the water change.

I am doing a fish less cycle in another tank an even that ammonia levels are stabilising with the bacteria I am using. So I am not sure why my gold fish tank is not stabilising.

Only distilled water ? Goldfish and Koi waste and breathing will acidify water like no other fish I know.

If it is the case, you need to test the water of the Goldfish tank, for PH, KH, GH. If the water is too soft it is surely becoming acidic, it will prevent establishing bacteria to the point it becomes impossible.

Goldfish likes water that has a fair amount of minerals. 100-150 ppm GH is good, but they can tolerate higher. And the crucial parameter is having a good KH 80-160 ppm as long as the PH remains stable will prevent the water from becoming too acid. Any PH between 7.0-8.0 that is stable is perfect. They really require the slightly harder water for their own health and help to maintain the water chemistry stable.

 

[Essjay]

This is from our fishless cycling method but it also applies to a tank containing fish -

To get a tank cycled in a reasonable amount of time, you need to make sure that, in addition to ammonia, the bacteria will also have:

• Inorganic carbon (as carbonates) by keeping your KH up. Do not let it drop below 3 dg (55 ppm).
• A good pH level by insuring it is above 6.5. The closer to 8.0 the faster the cycle will go. We do not recommend one alter their pH if it holds fairly steady anywhere between 6.8 - 8.5.

Distilled water has zero KH, and as MaloK pointed out, it is also likely to have low pH.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Acidic water does not prevent a cycle, but it does slow it. KH is essential for a cycle. in our tanks almost all, if nor all, of KH comes from carbonates and bicarbonates- inorganic forms of carbon. The bacteria need inrganic carbon and besides KH the main supply of this is CO2. But KH is also what holds up pH. What is helping your fish is the low pH. This causes most of the total ammonia in a tank to be in the form of ammonium (NH4) which is way less harmful than ammonia (NH3). However, thois does not mean Ammonkum does no harm. Porlonged exposure to higher levels can burn fish, especially the gills. Lower levels for short term exposure (as in cycling) is normally not an issue. But I hate to see it much over 2 ppm for more than short tersm (a few days or a week).

Ammonia in water is in two forms, please read the two articles on this site for rescuing a fish-in cycle gone wild. They should be a big help, In addition, you may should read here https://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html

Also, you are correct to monitor the fish behavior. When ammonia or nitrite are high enough for long enough the behavior of the fish changes in a way that you can see this. So, no matter what the parameters might be, if fish are showing abnormal behavior during cycling issues, we then must change water.

Lastly, most bacterial started products do not contain nitrospira which is a key bacteria in establsihed tanks. That is because Nitrospira are patented and are only in Dr. Tim's One and Only and Tetra's Safe start products. Certain strains of Nitrospira not only convert nitrite to nitrate, but they can also convert ammonia straight to nitrate. No matter what is in the other brands, once a tank is fully cycled, you will have nitrospira replacing whateve nitrite oxidizer other brands might cntain. One is better off seeding bacteria from one of their cycled tanks (if possible) than using most of the other starter products out there.

 

[Colin_T]

Why are you using distilled water?
Distilled water is pure water that contains no minerals and if there's no carbonate hardness (KH) in the water, the beneficial filter bacteria won't do as well. Carbonate hardness also buffers the pH and stops it dropping.

You also want minerals for goldfish (as mentioned by others). You could add some Rift Lake mineral salts at 1/4 dose or find a water source with some minerals in and use that instead.

 

[Gray Mare]

Acidic water does not prevent a cycle, but it does slow it. KH is essential for a cycle. in our tanks almost all, if nor all, of KH comes from carbonates and bicarbonates- inorganic forms of carbon. The bacteria need inrganic carbon and besides KH the main supply of this is CO2. But KH is also what holds up pH. What is helping your fish is the low pH. This causes most of the total ammonia in a tank to be in the form of ammonium (NH4) which is way less harmful than ammonia (NH3). However, thois does not mean Ammonkum does no harm. Porlonged exposure to higher levels can burn fish, especially the gills. Lower levels for short term exposure (as in cycling) is normally not an issue. But I hate to see it much over 2 ppm for more than short tersm (a few days or a week).

Ammonia in water is in two forms, please read the two articles on this site for rescuing a fish-in cycle gone wild. They should be a big help, In addition, you may should read here https://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html

Also, you are correct to monitor the fish behavior. When ammonia or nitrite are high enough for long enough the behavior of the fish changes in a way that you can see this. So, no matter what the parameters might be, if fish are showing abnormal behavior during cycling issues, we then must change water.

Lastly, most bacterial started products do not contain nitrospira which is a key bacteria in establsihed tanks. That is because Nitrospira are patented and are only in Dr. Tim's One and Only and Tetra's Safe start products. Certain strains of Nitrospira not only convert nitrite to nitrate, but they can also convert ammonia straight to nitrate. No matter what is in the other brands, once a tank is fully cycled, you will have nitrospira replacing whateve nitrite oxidizer other brands might cntain. One is better off seeding bacteria from one of their cycled tanks (if possible) than using most of the other starter products out there.

Only distilled water ? Goldfish and Koi waste and breathing will acidify water like no other fish I know.

If it is the case, you need to test the water of the Goldfish tank, for PH, KH, GH. If the water is too soft it is surely becoming acidic, it will prevent establishing bacteria to the point it becomes impossible.

Goldfish likes water that has a fair amount of minerals. 100-150 ppm GH is good, but they can tolerate higher. And the crucial parameter is having a good KH 80-160 ppm as long as the PH remains stable will prevent the water from becoming too acid. Any PH between 7.0-8.0 that is stable is perfect. They really require the slightly harder water for their own health and help to maintain the water chemistry stable.

I tested my water and the following are the readings:

Ph: 7.2
GH: 150 ppm
KH: 80 ppm

Ph is stable and is always around 7.2 to 7.4 whenever I test.

 

[Colin_T]

Interesting, you use distilled water but the GH is 150ppm. This would suggest there is something in the tank increasing the hardness or the distilled water is not distilled.

The pH of 7.2, and the GH (150ppm) and KH (80ppm) are fine for goldfish.

 

[MaloK]

But... It makes the problem even more hazy.

I re-read the whole tread and admit that you brought pretty reliable counter points to each statements that has been made.

Your current readings destroyed all my theory...

But I still haven't a hint on why is your ammonia is doing that. All I can suggest is serious cut back on food and larger water changes until it settles.

Looks like a lot of fun ahead.

When I had a pond I was forced to bring the fishes in a 75 gallons aquarium in my garage every winter. I moved all filter media I could to the tank with the fish for the time being. I made all winter without water changes and cramped fish.

For some reasons the ammonia spikes where always happening at spring in the pond where the water volume was more than 100 times the tank.