Help... Sudden Death And Others Are Not Looking Well

[carronann]

Hi all, just when I thought things were going well, I have a sudden death and others are not looking good. The tank has been going about 6 months now and although I had the newbie problems due to a new tank set up, everything has been ticking over well since before xmas. In fact, 2 months ago, one of my guppies had 16 babies, another had 1 a couple of weeks ago nd then there was another couple of babies in the tank on saturday morning although I was totally unsure what they were and they had gone before I had time to section them off in a a baby net thingy. I lmy 2 blue acara in the week (both on the same day) and lost my black Molly yesterday and dont know why. The didn't have any signs of disease that I could see... no white spots, cotton fluffy stuff or tails disintigrated etc.

The today I come home and a couple of the guppies do not look well. One has spots and so do some of the babies, and although I think it could be white spot, I am unsure as a newbie. Another 2 guppies... 1 fan tailed and 1 blue tailed (not sure of the exact names) are loosing the colour from their tails in parts.

I'll give you a run down of the fish in the tank and water conditions in the hope that someone can help me. I will also attach pics via photo bucket as I tried to upload but it keeps telling me the file is to big. If you are unable to access then please let me know


Water parameters.
ammonia 0.1
alkalinity - 0
nitrate NO ppm 3 - between 250 - 500 colour
nitrate NO 2 ppm - 25
PH - bit lighter than the 6.4 marker
temp - 24
Hardness - lighter than the 0 marker



2. A full description of the fishes symptoms.
As above

3. How often you do water changes and how much.
Water change 20 - 25% every sunday religiously. I put a new fluval 3 filter in 2 weeks ago and the ammonia crept up to so i did a water change every 3rd day for past 2 weeks and ammonia came down to

4. Any chemicals and treatments you add to the water.
I add Nutrafin Water Conditioner Aqua Plus to the water that is being changed and Nutrafin Biological Aquarium Supplement also once a week at water change.

5. What tank mates are in the tank.
1 Clown Loach
4 cardinal tetra
2 dwarf gourami
4 guppies
17 baby guppies
2 small variegated platys
1 Pleck
1 albino catfish
2 .... cant remember what they are called... about an inch long, similar looking to tetra but shiny silver (sorry)


6. Tank size.
-17" X 9 1/2" Hexagonal per panel.

Feeding
I feed them TetraMin Flake Food, King British Catfish Pellet Food for the catfish and aquarian growth flake food for the babies) morning and night but each 2nd day I give them a cube of Aquafresh frozen blood worms. My Plec wont eat the usual plec green disc but he loves the catfish food and is thriving (hes a beast!). No real plants.. all artificial plastic. Fluval 3 filter. I introduced the clown loach a month ago and my fish supplier warned me they are prone to white spot when moved. He did get a touch a couple of days later and I put white spot treatment in (1 dose). He's all cleared up now. My fish supplier said I must be doing something right if I my fish have given me 3 lots of babies but I must be doing something wrong if this is happening.. Please help as they are so precious to me

Regards
Carron

 

[carronann]

Hi all, just when I thought things were going well, I have a sudden death and others are not looking good. The tank has been going about 6 months now and although I had the newbie problems due to a new tank set up, everything has been ticking over well since before xmas. In fact, 2 months ago, one of my guppies had 16 babies, another had 1 a couple of weeks ago nd then there was another couple of babies in the tank on saturday morning although I was totally unsure what they were and they had gone before I had time to section them off in a a baby net thingy. I lmy 2 blue acara in the week (both on the same day) and lost my black Molly yesterday and dont know why. The didn't have any signs of disease that I could see... no white spots, cotton fluffy stuff or tails disintigrated etc.

The today I come home and a couple of the guppies do not look well. One has spots and so do some of the babies, and although I think it could be white spot, I am unsure as a newbie. Another 2 guppies... 1 fan tailed and 1 blue tailed (not sure of the exact names) are loosing the colour from their tails in parts.

I'll give you a run down of the fish in the tank and water conditions in the hope that someone can help me. I will also attach pics via photo bucket as I tried to upload but it keeps telling me the file is to big. If you are unable to access then please let me know


Water parameters.
ammonia 0.1
alkalinity - 0
nitrate NO ppm 3 - between 250 - 500 colour
nitrate NO 2 ppm - 25
PH - bit lighter than the 6.4 marker
temp - 24
Hardness - lighter than the 0 marker



2. A full description of the fishes symptoms.
As above

3. How often you do water changes and how much.
Water change 20 - 25% every sunday religiously. I put a new fluval 3 filter in 2 weeks ago and the ammonia crept up to so i did a water change every 3rd day for past 2 weeks and ammonia came down to

4. Any chemicals and treatments you add to the water.
I add Nutrafin Water Conditioner Aqua Plus to the water that is being changed and Nutrafin Biological Aquarium Supplement also once a week at water change.

5. What tank mates are in the tank.
1 Clown Loach
4 cardinal tetra
2 dwarf gourami
4 guppies
17 baby guppies
2 small variegated platys
1 Pleck
1 albino catfish
2 .... cant remember what they are called... about an inch long, similar looking to tetra but shiny silver (sorry)


6. Tank size.
-17" X 9 1/2" Hexagonal per panel.

Feeding
I feed them TetraMin Flake Food, King British Catfish Pellet Food for the catfish and aquarian growth flake food for the babies) morning and night but each 2nd day I give them a cube of Aquafresh frozen blood worms. My Plec wont eat the usual plec green disc but he loves the catfish food and is thriving (hes a beast!). No real plants.. all artificial plastic. Fluval 3 filter. I introduced the clown loach a month ago and my fish supplier warned me they are prone to white spot when moved. He did get a touch a couple of days later and I put white spot treatment in (1 dose). He's all cleared up now. My fish supplier said I must be doing something right if I my fish have given me 3 lots of babies but I must be doing something wrong if this is happening.. Please help as they are so precious to me

Regards
Carron

 

[WILDER]

Once you have got ridden of the whtespot I would take the clown loach back to the lfs.
They need 90 gallon tanks and need to be kept in groups to be happy, he will be stressed on his own.
Need to no how many gallons or litres the tank is.
Whitespot looks like thee been sprinkled in salt.

 

[TerraDreamer]

I agree with Wilder, the loach has to go. Also, I noticed you said you had two blue acaras (now dead). That tank is nowhere near adequate for an acara, even one. An acara, being a cichlid, needs the proper tank and landscape design. They'll grow to 5"+. They need lots of room, lots of rocks, and plenty of places to hide. I wouldn't place an acara in anything less than 30 U.S. gallons, and even that is pushing it.

And yes, what is the size of your tank in either liters or U.S. gallons? I suspect you're way overstocked. I'm counting 17+ inches of fish, not including the baby guppies in a tank with limited filtration.

 

[nynex]

First by looking at the pic of your tank. I think its overstocked.
An overstocked tank is a nice way to make a system crash,simply
cause the bio load is way to heavy.

You should considered getting a bigger tank. Also get rid of that
in the tank filter. Those are the worst. Consider switching to an
aquaclear 30. (much better and has a media basket that contains
bio media to help your bio filter. Also think about an airstone or
some live plants to add oxygen to the water.

Now on to your water problems...

Your PH is way low. It should be 7.0

Get Correct PH from Petsmart. They have the best price. This
will keep your PH at 7.0 for up to 3 weeks.

Ok second...Your Nitrates and more Importantly Nitrites should be 0.
A Nitrite spike would give your fish Nitrogen Toxicity. They
basicly cant breath and end up dead. You say your tank has been
up for 6 months. Your temp should be betwen 78 and 80. You
very well may be suffering from whats called New Tank Syndrome.
Your tank was never cycled correctly and its cycling again. Which
means nitrites will go to a toxic level. If this is the case.

Remove your living fish to a QT/hospital tank asap. with clean freshwater.
To be safe I would put MELEFIX in the Hospital tank well they are in
there. Let me guess you dont have one. Get a 10 gallon tank ..they are
$8.95 and top fin 10 power filter...they are $9.99, You can get both at
petsmart.

Then in your main display. Do a 50% water change. Then add a Product
from Seachem called PRiME. This will bring your Ammonia,Nitrates,and Nitrites
to 0. Also get a product from Seachem called STABILITY. In the future add
this whenever you do a water change or when adding new fish. Stability
adds benefical bacteria into the tank and helps strengthen the Bio Filter.
After your main tank is stable. You can put your fish back granted they
are still not sick.

Ive been doing this a long time and I swear by Seachem products.

Here is run down of what you should pick up. The first three any freshwater
tank shouldnt be without...

Stability (seachem)
Prime (seachem)
Melefix (AQP)
Correct PH (jungle labs)
10 gallon tank (for QT/Hospital tank)
top fin 10 power filter ( cheap power filter..serves its purpose on the QT.)

Good luck.

 

[carronann]

15.49 US Gallons
12.9 UK Gallons


So it is white spot?

My supplier who is very reputable, advise me it was ok to have the loach and the acara in the tank. Also that it was not over stocked. I have seen tanks of the same capacity with far more fish in them. I am planning on getting a large tank as time goes on as I knew some of the fish (especially the plec) would need it. The largest fish in the tank is about 2 inch.


Cal

 

[carronann]

Thanks you for the quick reply and advise.
Can you tell me why you advise all these chemicals as I am being constantly told NOT to add chemicals as it will back fire in a few weeks when the filter suffers. Also,the filter is reputable and I know many others with these types of filter who are doing great so why do you condem it?


Cal


P.S I posted this topic twice by mistake and could someone delete one of them or add them together?

 

[Christine1014]

hi carronann,
Sorry to hear about the fish problems!! All of us newbies have been there, though!

I can't comment on the filter becuase I have no experience with that type. As for chemicals, you're right, less is typically better when possible. There's a lot of mixed opinions about the so-called beneficial bacteria. You'll find plenty of discussion about it on this forum, but it seems like the consus is that bacteria can't survive in a bottle, thus these products probably aren't really doing much.

The Prime, however, is a must-have, as I've recently learned with my own newly-cylcled tank. Assuming you're filling your tank with tap water, you need to add something to remove the chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia. Prime does all this, as well as keeps the nitrates and nitrites in check. YOu still want to do water changes, even if you're using Prime, but when Nitrite/Nitrate levels get crazy, Prime's the best way to protect your fish.

Good luck!!! Keep coming to the forum for advice and questions, and your fish will be happy!

 

[carronann]

hi carronann,
Sorry to hear about the fish problems!! All of us newbies have been there, though!

I can't comment on the filter becuase I have no experience with that type. As for chemicals, you're right, less is typically better when possible. There's a lot of mixed opinions about the so-called beneficial bacteria. You'll find plenty of discussion about it on this forum, but it seems like the consus is that bacteria can't survive in a bottle, thus these products probably aren't really doing much.

The Prime, however, is a must-have, as I've recently learned with my own newly-cylcled tank. Assuming you're filling your tank with tap water, you need to add something to remove the chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia. Prime does all this, as well as keeps the nitrates and nitrites in check. YOu still want to do water changes, even if you're using Prime, but when Nitrite/Nitrate levels get crazy, Prime's the best way to protect your fish.

Good luck!!! Keep coming to the forum for advice and questions, and your fish will be happy!

Hi there and thanks for the reply. It guts me when I loose a fish especially as a newbie as I blame myself

I do add Nutrafin Water Conditioner Aqua Plus to the water and its for removing chlrine, chloramine etc. I asked around (i'm in the UK) and was told this is the best here. Think it's hard as a newbie as all the information sometimes is conflicting and it's hard to know what to do or suggestions to go for. I never mind paying for expensive products etc for the tank as I class them as part of the family and would do the same for my children etc (it's the nurse in me). So many products though.

Cal

 

[Christine1014]

I know what you mean about all the products... everyone here does seem to swear by Seachem products, and I've got no complaints thus far (they haven't done anything crazy like turn my water cloudy or kill my fish!). The only benefit of Prime over what you're using (and I admit it's a product I'm not really familiar with) is that Prime controls the Nitrates and Nitrites, and I'm not sure that a regular water conditioner like you're using does that. It's not a big deal in a mature tank, but if yours is cycling, or if your nitrates and nitrites are high, you need that extra help.

It might also be worthwhile to check the PH of your tap water. 6.4 seems a little low and it would be interesting to see if that's a product of what's happening in your tank, or if that's just your tap water. If your tap water is neutral - somewhere around 7 or 7.2, we need to figure out the root cause of your low levels in the tank. The most important thing is for your PH to remain steady. if it goes up and down you can shock the fish. (which is the danger with trying to control it chemically).

If the PH in your tap is okay, I'd do a big (like, 50%) water change, using Prime as the water conditioner. Later in the day, check your nitrates/nitrites again. If they're climbing, add the extra dose of Prime (read the back of the label.. it explains that in a nitrate/nitrite emergency, you can mulitply the regular "dose" by 5 safely to bring the levels down). If your tank is cycling again for some reason, you'll need to keep up with the regular water changes, but Prime should help keep things stable between changes.

And by all means, I'm not an expert on any of this, so anyone can feel free to correct me!! But a lof of this was advice given to me in the last month or so as I got my new tank up and running, and my fish are still alive!

 

[WILDER]

Lfs is fibbing as that tanks well overstocked and the fish are now suffering through stress and desease.;
If the fish look like they have been sprinkled in salt yes it whitespot.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=34953

 

[carronann]

Now I feel guilty as i took my suppliers advise on stocking the tank. Just goes to show you you cant ttust everyone. What do you suggest is the best ciurse of action to address the sick fish problem etc.

As for the over stocking, I shall look at getting the bigger tank, sooner rather than later.


Cal

 

[WILDER]

Clown loaches are funny with whitespot meds so read instrucions that you can use the full dose with the med.
Increase temp to 30, and also increase areation in the tank as the high temp and med will reduce 02 in the tank.
I would take the clown loach back to the lfs once the whitespot gone, he will be very lonely on his own, never should be kept on there own and the lfs should know this, and he should know they need large tanks as they grow big and need room to shoal.

 

[cane76]

also dont feel guilty about being given crap advice its not your fault
my advice is do your own research rather than trusting the lfs

 

[nynex]

Your tank is overstocked and you had New Tank Syndrome. You need to get your living
fish out of the main tank into a QT/Hospital tank. Until you balance out your main tank.

Who is advising you not to use chemicals cause they will backfire. Whoever told you that
obviously knows not what they are talking about. Let me guess some moron at the LFS
told you that.

Ive been in this a long time and Seachem is one of the best companys in the bussiness.

STABILITY is not a chemical. It is benificial bacteria that helps massively in helping to
establish your bio filter.

PRIME another seachem product is another must have. When you have a spike like you
obviously had. It will reduce your ammonia,nitrites,nitrates to 0. Without this product,
I would recommend a 75% water change.

Melefix - is not a chemical. Its basicly tea tree oil..and its very very good antibacterial
for your fish. Also check out there other product Pimafix another all natural product
that is an antifungal.

Correct PH - by jungle labs. Another very good company. How else are you gonna
balance out your PH if its too high or too low? Your PH at 6.4 is way too low.

YOUR PH SHOULD BE 7.0

But one thing I will say is dont take the advice of your local fish store as the right
advice. Half the people in those stores dont know what they are talking about.
Get some books and also use the web to do your research.

There are other factors that come into play. First that in the tank filter you have
is the worst. You should switch to a hang on back filter such as an Aquaclear.
Also your tank is too overstocked. They plays a huge factor in water problems.

Also on your other post...someone told you clown loches need a 90 gallon tank,
that is false. Yes clowns do better in groups of 3 or more. They are fine in any
tank over 20 gallon.