Help! Starting All Over Again With New Betta(s) Need Help!

[kelnme]

Hi ALL,

Ok, we will be putting our Betta, Sparky, to rest shortly today.
I am trying not to think of his cute little face as he would wiggle himself swimming over to me. Enough said on this.

To overcome my sorrow for my little baby. I am planning to go out today or tomorrow to purchase another Betta or 2. For now, if I do get the 2 Bettas, I will also be purchasing 2 large bowls for temporary use until I am sure I can get the 5 gallon and 10 gallons tanks cycled properly. I will also be ordering the Bio Spira after I get more knowledge on how to carefully set up the 2 larger tanks in preparation for the Bio Spira.


I have a 25 watt heater right now for the 5 gallon tank and that is it. Should I purchase another smaller heater - 1(2) for the new bowl(s)?

Also, I am dizzy thinking of all the different conditioners people keep saying to use. What is the difference? Which is best? I have Prime now and AquaSafe and everything else listed in my prior posts. I have just read to use NovAqua, Amquel, and AquiSol. ACKKKKKKKKKK!!!! I am going Nuts!!! I think my problem is that I have so many different items, I am not sure which to put in and maybe have put too much of so many different things into the tank with our Sparky. I really need to be told...step by step...like a little child, I suppose what exactly what I need to do from beginning to end.

Let's start with bringing the Betta(s) home from the store. Ok, so I have this(ese) large bowl(s) now and the Betta(s) in a teensy weeny container (Oh, how I hate those teeny containers they keep the Bettas in, in the pet stores!!!!! >: ) Ok, so please let me make sure have this down. And please, help me if I am wrong, PLEASE! I only have 1 gallon of water set for over a week now which has been treated with AquaSafe. I really don't even want to use that water any more. I'd just as soon discard it because I don't even know how much I put in there now when I treated it. So, that would mean I would have to start with my tap water and treat it. Would that be OK to start and then condition it with how much conditioner? Which conditioner?

Also, my tap water tests at .50 Ammonia. I have tested this over and over and over again, and it comes up at .50 Ammonia. I tested the water with my API Ammonia NH3/NH4+ Test Kit. It has 2 bottles in the box.

I don't think I am going to go to the store today until I hear from everyone on this. Because of the loss of Sparky, I have literally become frozen with fear of doing anything on my own with another Betta fish or any other fish for that matter.

Going to bury Sparky now.

Awaiting replies please!

Ann

 

[Dibari]

Hi ALL,

Ok, we will be putting our Betta, Sparky, to rest shortly today.
I am trying not to think of his cute little face as he would wiggle himself swimming over to me. Enough said on this.

To overcome my sorrow for my little baby. I am planning to go out today or tomorrow to purchase another Betta or 2. For now, if I do get the 2 Bettas, I will also be purchasing 2 large bowls for temporary use until I am sure I can get the 5 gallon and 10 gallons tanks cycled properly. I will also be ordering the Bio Spira after I get more knowledge on how to carefully set up the 2 larger tanks in preparation for the Bio Spira.


I have a 25 watt heater right now for the 5 gallon tank and that is it. Should I purchase another smaller heater - 1(2) for the new bowl(s)?

Also, I am dizzy thinking of all the different conditioners people keep saying to use. What is the difference? Which is best? I have Prime now and AquaSafe and everything else listed in my prior posts. I have just read to use NovAqua, Amquel, and AquiSol. ACKKKKKKKKKK!!!! I am going Nuts!!! I think my problem is that I have so many different items, I am not sure which to put in and maybe have put too much of so many different things into the tank with our Sparky. I really need to be told...step by step...like a little child, I suppose what exactly what I need to do from beginning to end.

Let's start with bringing the Betta(s) home from the store. Ok, so I have this(ese) large bowl(s) now and the Betta(s) in a teensy weeny container (Oh, how I hate those teeny containers they keep the Bettas in, in the pet stores!!!!! >: ) Ok, so please let me make sure have this down. And please, help me if I am wrong, PLEASE! I only have 1 gallon of water set for over a week now which has been treated with AquaSafe. I really don't even want to use that water any more. I'd just as soon discard it because I don't even know how much I put in there now when I treated it. So, that would mean I would have to start with my tap water and treat it. Would that be OK to start and then condition it with how much conditioner? Which conditioner?

Also, my tap water tests at .50 Ammonia. I have tested this over and over and over again, and it comes up at .50 Ammonia. I tested the water with my API Ammonia NH3/NH4+ Test Kit. It has 2 bottles in the box.

I don't think I am going to go to the store today until I hear from everyone on this. Because of the loss of Sparky, I have literally become frozen with fear of doing anything on my own with another Betta fish or any other fish for that matter.

Going to bury Sparky now.

Awaiting replies please!

Ann

Do please put heaters in the bowls. I have a general dislike for bowls in general, but if they're atleast a gallon and will be heading to bigger tanks soon, I won't complain too much.

I personally use Prime, but issues with false readings can always arise with ammonia binders, like Amquel too. So that's really a matter of preference.


I guess I'm confused by your second question.. But if your tap water has ammonia in it, you need to treat it with ammo lock or another ammonia binder, and wait for it to read 0 before placing your betta in the bowl. .50 is too high, even for a moment or two that it takes for the ammonia to be detoxified.
Always treat your water before placing your betta in the water. I hope this helps.
I'm sorry your other betta has to be euthanized, may he rest in peace.

 

[kelnme]

Hi Dibari,

Thank you for your reply to my posting.

I was very upset when I lost my first Betta, Sparky. I did not understand the nitrogen cycle process and listened to too many different people with too many different opinions including and mostly from quite a few pet shops. Most of these people, it is sad to say, really don't know the correct information to give people. It is all too sad and because of it, I lost my beautiful Betta. He was so precious to me. I was so heartbroken to lose him.

And now in fear to have to go through the process again, I want to make sure to do things right this time before I put another little creature in harms way.

I have Prime and will use that to condition the water before I place the Betta into the bowl. For now, I plan on getting a 2 gallon bowl, and with the help of Bio Spira, which I have heard is great, I will then transfer the Betta into a 5 or 10 gallon tank (I have both) and hopefully get through the nitrogen cycle without much stress.

 

[Dibari]

No problem. If you have any questions about fishless cycling, you can ask here on the tank set up section and i'm sure they'll really help you with it.

 

[Maxsmom]

Dibari, I've never had to use Ammo Lock - that wouldn't interfere with Prime wouldn't it?! Just want to make sure her water is perfect before she puts her fish in.

She's been advised in another forum to have her water tested - both straight from the tap - and from water sitting - at her LFS - she can also do that with the 2 bottle tester kit from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals.

 

[Dibari]

Dibari, I've never had to use Ammo Lock - that wouldn't interfere with Prime wouldn't it?! Just want to make sure her water is perfect before she puts her fish in.

She's been advised in another forum to have her water tested - both straight from the tap - and from water sitting - at her LFS - she can also do that with the 2 bottle tester kit from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals.

Ammo lock is another ammonia binder, and I'm fairly certain can be used in conjunction with other ammo binders like Prime, but if you're worried, you can use one or the other and not mix them. It's an and/or kind of thing.

 

[Maxsmom]

Thanks Dibari.

So she should have her tap water tested (straight from the tap) - and sitting water - AND water treated with Prime - AND water treated with Prime/Ammo Lock? Can you overdose on water conditioner?? This is unfamiliar territory for me...

 

[kelnme]

Good question Maxsmom. I have wondered the same also. Can the fish overdose on too much water conditioner? I think I have made that mistake with my first Betta. Not knowing which conditioners to use. It seems that everything you put into your water, at least all the items I have purchased, all seem to condition the water also, besides whatever else it is supposed to do.

I used AquaSafe, Stress Coat, Stress Zyme, and Easy Balance with Nitroban all at the same time in the bowl. And I also put in aquarium salt. And every time I changed his water, I would replace all of the above items. Not full strength, of course, but an amount that would be given with the amount of water I was changing.


And I was told by the pet shop to always keep the water balanced and they sold me Proper PH Balance of 7.0 which I used frequently in the water. I think those constant adjustments shocked the poor little Betta each and every time. All he ever wanted was to swim around freely and I kept worrying about his PH and water conditioning and then the ammonia peaks and keeping the ph down during the ammonia peaks that it became too much for that little guy.

I am bringing my water to be tested tomorrow for Ph, Ammonia, KH and GH. The Ammonia from my tap water seems to be .50 and the ph level is at least 7.8 which is as high my test chart shows. It could very well be even higher than that and so I will hopefully have the answers tomorrow.

I did however, test my tap water's KH and GH with my API Test Strips and it looks as though my KH is either 80 or 120 and the GH is 60. But I will know for sure tomorrow when the store tests it for me.

 

[Maxsmom]

Kel, make sure you ask what testers they are using too.

Yeah, the information that the fishstore gave you was not very sound... too much additions to the water... and again, pH as long as it's consistant and not TOO high... doesn't need to be adjusted. But determining the kH and GH will help to figure it all out.

I'm so surprised that the LFS didn't try to work you THROUGH the cycle and not have you start the cycle over and over again... and again, I think it's either ignorance or trying to sell you more stuff (or both!) at the expense of Sparky.

Again... just more proof that most of their knowledge is not up to date.

 

[Dibari]

Actually, too much conditioner CAN make them uncomfortable (From what I've witnessed), because I tend to overdose due to paranoia. But it takes alot.
And I think she should just have her tap water tested. Her store bought test kits should be accurate, even though Prime does give false readings.

 

[kelnme]

I know what you mean DiBari, it is so easy to over condition them. I would think...well a few more drops of this or that should be ok since he needs slime coat and stress coat and zyme coat, and then there are the conditioners that say conditioner PLUS. I always thought that PLUS is something he probably needs too.

I find it very hard trying to gather up all the information out there and then try to figure out just which ones to pick that would be sufficient enough to keep him happy.

Every time I go to a pet shop they keep trying to sell me something else. They say....well we don't use that conditioner or whatever at their store...they say...oh well we use this. And then I would go to another store and they would suggest using something else. AND NO ONE carried Bio Spira which is what I did a massive search for at every pet shop in the area. I live in South Carolina. I traveled all the way to this one store that was listed on MarineLand as carrying BioSpira in Savannah, Georgia. I finally got to the store and the man didn't even know what I was talking about. He never heard of Bio Spira. When I tried to explain to him what it was that I was trying to do, he sold me another substance called Bio Zyme. That was garbage too. He tried to push off more items too. I found my way to another big Exotic Fish store in Savannah, Georgia, while in that area. No Bio Spira. They also sold me more items that they swore would help me. And they insisted that the only condition they would be good was Sera Aqutan and Sera Toxivec AND talked me into buying Sera Nitrivec which is a freshwater Bio-Starter. Those 3 items (which I never used) cost me almost $40. What a wasted trip that was.

What I am trying to say is that there is so much information out there, not only on the internet, but from Fish Stores, who you think would know better and inform you on the proper way to approach and handle things. Either these people don't know what they are talking about, or they just don't care and want to sell you anything that you will buy.

It really is a shame. I lost my Betta because of this, and it just shouldn't have happened.

 

[Dibari]

I know what you mean DiBari, it is so easy to over condition them. I would think...well a few more drops of this or that should be ok since he needs slime coat and stress coat and zyme coat, and then there are the conditioners that say conditioner PLUS. I always thought that PLUS is something he probably needs too.

I find it very hard trying to gather up all the information out there and then try to figure out just which ones to pick that would be sufficient enough to keep him happy.

Every time I go to a pet shop they keep trying to sell me something else. They say....well we don't use that conditioner or whatever at their store...they say...oh well we use this. And then I would go to another store and they would suggest using something else. AND NO ONE carried Bio Spira which is what I did a massive search for at every pet shop in the area. I live in South Carolina. I traveled all the way to this one store that was listed on MarineLand as carrying BioSpira in Savannah, Georgia. I finally got to the store and the man didn't even know what I was talking about. He never heard of Bio Spira. When I tried to explain to him what it was that I was trying to do, he sold me another substance called Bio Zyme. That was garbage too. He tried to push off more items too. I found my way to another big Exotic Fish store in Savannah, Georgia, while in that area. No Bio Spira. They also sold me more items that they swore would help me. And they insisted that the only condition they would be good was Sera Aqutan and Sera Toxivec AND talked me into buying Sera Nitrivec which is a freshwater Bio-Starter. Those 3 items (which I never used) cost me almost $40. What a wasted trip that was.

What I am trying to say is that there is so much information out there, not only on the internet, but from Fish Stores, who you think would know better and inform you on the proper way to approach and handle things. Either these people don't know what they are talking about, or they just don't care and want to sell you anything that you will buy.

It really is a shame. I lost my Betta because of this, and it just shouldn't have happened.

Eesh. Yeah, no one I know of carries Bio Spira in stores. I have to buy it online. And sometimes it won't work anyway.
They just want to sell you stuff.
My Petsmart tried to sell me Cycle, and I just laughed.

I am so sorry about your fish and that this happened unncessesarily.
These things.. We can never see them coming. I hope things go better this time around..

 

[kelnme]

Hi Dibari

Thanks for your well wishes. I, too, hope that my new Betta will do well. I am going to make the purchases today.

BTW, I see that you have quite a few Betta. How and where do you keep them all? Can you give me some advice on how you do it?

I was going to purchase 2 today, but if I could I would purchase 3.

I have a 5 gallon uncycled tank
a 10 gallon uncycled tank

I am going to purchase 2 - 2 gallon bowls today just to put them in temporarily as I prepare the larger tanks for their homes. I am going to have to order Bio Spira and keep my fingers crossed that it works for me.

I was thinking, once the larger tanks are up and running, that it might be a good idea to start them with a few hearty fish like zebra danios, or white clouds, or whatever hearty fish would get along with Bettas.

Let me know what you think please.

 

[Maxsmom]

Eesh. Yeah, no one I know of carries Bio Spira in stores. I have to buy it online. And sometimes it won't work anyway.
They just want to sell you stuff.
My Petsmart tried to sell me Cycle, and I just laughed.

Dibari, what happened with your BioSpira for it not to work. Did it not stay cool enough during shipping? How long did it take for it to get to you? I'm asking b/c I got it overnight - which was really $$ but the safest way to get it and the company I ordered it from guarantees live delivery on overnight shipments.

Yes, when I asked one of my LFS's about BioSpira - they never heard of it either - and they are aquarium specialists Hmmm... that's debatable... anyway... they said - use Cycle or Stability - it's the same thing. It's NOT - you buy it off the shelf - not refrigerated - so how can it be live?? It did nothing but hinder my fishless cycling attempt.

Sorry to hijack your post Kelnme... but I also figured you'd be finding the information useful for your attempt with BioSpira.

 

[Christine1014]

Sorry to hear about Sparky!

I'll do what I can to answer some of your question.
The heater for the bowl is a great idea, but I think I'd probably try to get the tanks all set up and cycled before I brought any more fish home; that way you don't have to worry about making the switch, or changing the water in the bowl every day or every other day...

Anyway, let me see if I can answer some of your questions:

Water Conditioners:
Basically, as long as the water conditioner treats chlorine AND chloramine, you're good. I think Prime also detoxifies some heavy metals and can help neutralize nitrates.

If your tap water contains ammonia, then yes, add Ammo Lock. Ammo Lock will not interfere with cycling, as it only converts ammonia (toxic) to ammonium (not toxic). But to the developing beneficial bacteria, it's all the same, so your cycling won't be slowed down.

Don't bother with slime coat. It's questionable whether this stuff does any good. Personally, I've never used it, and I've got happy, healthy (and very old) fish.

It's pretty hard to OD a fish on water conditioner. Even if you look at the intstructions on Prime, it tells you in a Nitrate emerency, you can use up to like a quadruple dose...

Cycling & Bio Spora

From what I understand, Bio Spora's pretty expensive. And while there is *some* evidence that it works (not a ton, but at least more than the other "bacteria in a bottle" products that aren't refridgerated), you as a consumer can't be SURE that it's been stored at the proper temperature ever since it left the factory.

Your best bet for getting your tanks up and running and cycled is to do a fishless cycle (yes, danios are hardy fish, but why spend the money on a fish whose sole purpose in your tank is going to be to suffer through ammonia and nitrite spikes?). If you're unsure how to do it, read the pinned topics in the beginner section. And if you can't find pure ammonia (which is tough in some areas), you can just use fish flakes.


Bettas

With just the two tanks, the 5 and 10 gallons, the only way you could keep three bettas is to split the 10 in half with a divider. You've had a betta before, so you know you can't keep two males together, and you can keep females with other females, but I think you need a whole group of them (5-7, if I remember correctly).


Good luck; hope that helps!! Feel free to ask if you have any more questions!