Help, Poorly Ram

[freddiesfish]

Hi all, been a lurker on this forum for a few weeks now and have generally learnt lots of bits and pieces. We have a juwel 120 thats been up and running for a couple of months now, tranfsered an additional internal filter from a smaller tank we had before as well so the cycling should not be a problem. However one of our rams has this afternoon started to gasp for air and hide at the top of the filter. Now we have lost a few fish in the past too similar symptoms (rams mainly) when we had other tanks. i am using the tetratest sticks almost everyday to check the water and its all in acceptable ranges so any ideas whats causing this? Dont want too lose another ram as I think they are great little fish, I carried out a water change on friday but only a partial one and done the usual wash the sponges in the tank (in the bucket) water. The only other thing is I added another ram (female) and 6 cardinals on friday. The rams have been getting on fine, I will do a water change again tonight but any help would be great.

 

[Loony Fish]

sorry,
my blue rams did that. i think they are scared or stressed fallow the guide lines for help:
80-86* f
pH 6.5
soft water
very clean tank
remove any fish that may be hurting it

 

[minxfishy]

The test strips arent reliable Im afraid, you really need a liquid based test kit to give ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings.

Rams are particulary sensitive fish that do not do well in less than immaculate water - which includes nitrate readings below 20ppm. If you have lost rams in the past then it maybe due to the water readings, but without knowing exactly what they are, its difficult to say.

If the fish is gasping for air it suggest a lack of oxygen, try to increase aeration in the tank either by the filter outlet to give more surface movement or an airstone, or it could be ammonia poisoning, I would suggest a 50% water change, temp matching the water being returned to the tank with that of the current tank water.

Although fairly inaccurate what are the test strip readings ?

 

[freddiesfish]

Thanks for the quick replies, the temp is 28 degrees, I would say its clean! I do regular water changes, have 2 filters running. The test results are (and youll have to bear with me on this) NO3 between 10 and 25, NO2 between 0 and 1 (more often O though), GH was betwwen 10 and 16, KH about 6 and pH about 7.2. Sorry if this makes no sense to you but they are the values from the side of the tube, the guy in the shop said it was a green value I was looking for, not a red one and all the values are green. Will go and get a different test kit tomorrow if that will help. Just did a 20% water change, wondering if its the other fish that could be the problem, when I bought the ram a couple of weeks ago (with a mate) the mate died the next day and I have my suspicions the red tailed shark may have been responsible as its getting bigger it seems to be getting more boisterous for a couple of days at a time (must be pmt!!) other fish in the tank are 6 cardinal tetra, 6 phantom tetra, 1 red tail shark (about 2 and half inchs), 2 dwarf rainbow, 2 rams, 1 dwarf gourami, 3 platys, 5 mountain cloud miinows??? and 3 twin spot barbs ( not sure this is the right name). The tank is 120 litres and they all seem fine with only the occasional chasing or nipping, let me know what you think

Thanks again for the replies

Just to add, I live in a very hard water area but then the shop knows that as they are local and advised me against discus fish (seperate set up) when I looked into that. Do rams really need soft water?

 

[Hawkins]

Im new to rams, as i got my first 4 yesterday. one of my blue rams died 3 hours after putting it in my tank, because of mouth fungus. Im not sure if it developed it in the 4 hours coming from the fish shop..

but it was breathing really fast and couldn't shut its mouth.. does yours have a fungus?

 

[freddiesfish]

No there is no fungus, since the water change he has come out and swimming about a bit with his mate, think I will get a diffderent test kit in the morning and maybe do another water change, all other fish are ok though, shame really although its my little boys tank (he is 2, likes the colours) I think the rams are great little fish

 

[minxfishy]

Sounds to me like you have a nitrite problem NO2 is Nitrite and anything over 0 is harmful to all fish but the rams particularly wont like it.

RTBS will get aggressive as they mature and may well become a problem as he competes for terriroty with the rams/gourami. You may need to re-home at some point in the future - depends on the personality of the fish.

Yes indeedy if you can, please invest in a good quality liquid test kit - alot of members here (including myself) us API freshwater master test it, so is usually recommended

Your ph sounds fine, I live in a very hard water area, my ph is 7.6 - 7.8 and my rams are thriving, no problem with them at all - but they were tank bred in this kind of water and had no problems acclimatising to my tank water.

Keep up some good water changes whilst waiting for a test kit and let us know the results. Keeping my fingers crossed for your ram

 

[freddiesfish]

Thanks minxyfishy, The "gasping" and this is going to sound really stupid is now more like its gills are really moving elaboratly and his mouth opening and closing alot but does not seem as bad now, not quite gasping if you like! Hopefully I have caught it early maybe. Regarding the "twin spot barbs" well, they aint!! Just found a pic of them and its not those. Mine are similar shape and I expect size as the topedo line barbs but with a silver body and a black spot right at the back by the tail and then a black and red spot at the top and bottom of the tail, any ideas what it might be? Just worried these will get too big for my tank as they are really hungry fish and are noticably bigger in a month already

Thanks again

 

[freddiesfish]

Just to got back from walking the dog and unfortunately the ram has died, cant believe this has happened so quickly

 

[minxfishy]

Sorry to hear that RIP little Ram

No idea on the barbs, post up a pic, someone will sure to identify it for you.

Can I suggest that you dont add any more fish to your tank until you know all the water parameters and its been stable for a while

 

[freddiesfish]

I have now been out and bought the api test kits and the results are as follows
nitrate 40 ppm
nitrite 0ppm
ammonia between o and 0.25 ppm
ph about 8

Does the above make any more sense to you!!! Are frequent water changes the way to go for the next few days, as most of the advice was to but api this or api that.

as I posted earlier I have the internal filter that came with the juwel lido 120 and an additional interpet pf2 internal filter

If anyone can help that would be great as I dont want to lose anymore fish, especially the remaining ram

Thanks

 

[maximinimus]

The 40ppm of nitrate is enough of a worry with rams (they need perfect water less than 20ppm), but with 0.25ppm of ammonia something definately isnt right.

The only thing I can suggest is 50% water changes until nitrates are below 40ppm and ammonia is close to 0

 

[freddiesfish]

Thanks for that,

I will do that tonight, could it just be overfeeding thats causing this to rise? does it seem right that the nitrite is low but the ammonia and nitrate are high(er)?

Thanks again for the help

 

[freddiesfish]

Also these are the fish I need to know what they are, tried to add in the discussion forum but could not upload. This fish (3 of them) is the reason we feed them every day, they are so greedy when the food goes in and also if they dont get fed every day they start to chase the smaller fish and start nipping. So I am wondering if we are feeding too much trying to keep this bunch happy

Cheers

 

[minxfishy]

Considering you done some water changes yesterday already, the ammonia at the time of adding the fish was higher, so Im not suprised by the death.

Could be adding new fish recently has caused you to have a mini-cycle? As already advised above, plenty of water changes to keep the ammonia as close to 0 as possible, also keep an eye on the nitrite as if you have an ammonia spike, you may also see a nitrite spike in the next few days.

Good luck.