Help PARASITES!!!!

[tuwhada]

I have a new Powder Brown tang and I know they are very prone to parasites. He was at the store for a over a LONG time and he was doing great. Now he is swimming into the water exhaust and rubbing on the bottom of hte substrate so I am concerned about parasites. I don't see anything on him though. I added vitachem to the water and I put garlic in his food. NOt really sure what else to do. Any ideas. My water is good, everything tests great. The only thing is the store keeps their salinity at like .015 mine is at like .022. Could that have caused the problem. If so how should I lower my salinity.

Thanks
Christina

 

[ostrow]

The store keeps their tanks at 1.015? I don't believe anything would be alive in them if this is true. I wouldn't mess with your parameters now, though.

Tangs require very, very slow acclimatization, so either way depending on how you did it this could be the cause.

As to solution, need to know lots more about your tank ... size, inhabitants, equipment, etc...

 

[tuwhada]

It is a 90 gallon with 30 gallon sump. It has only been setup for about a week now. I cycled it using Bio Spira. I have about 45 pounds of live rock, my temp is 78-80, trying to get it to come down a little. My nitrates, nitrites and ammonia are all at zero. the ph is at 8.0 and the salinity is at 1.022. The only other fish in there is a blue dot watchman goby that I used to cause my ammonia spike after the biospira was added, a fire clown and the tang. That is it. That is probably why my levels are so good. I have been feeding them a variety of formula 2, spirulina flake and frozen brine. I added garlic to the food the day I brought them home (which was Saturday) and today. Today I also added vitachem after I saw him doing that. I work at this store and he had been there for a few weeks, the day I decided to buy him he was swimming into the exhaust and my coworker said that, that is never a good sign. We moved him to another tank so nobody would buy him and he was doing awesome. He was good until today. I am really worried, This is my first tank, although I work at a tropical fish store, it is very different when it is your own fish. I really like this guy and I don't want anything bad to happen to him. I don't see any spots on him or the other fish. The fire clown looks fine, he may have rubbed himself a little today but nothing in particular. The goby has been acting a little strange I posted about him on this forum also so you can read that
I hope this answers all of your questions.

PLEASE give me any advise that you can.

Christina

Oh and the store is infested with ick, they always have it, most stores do, I made sure that I did not put ANY of their water in my tank and my acclimation process took about 1 hour or so.

 

[Hazmat]

I don't mean to sound rude but if you work at the store and know something about fish then why did you only let your tank cycle for a week before adding fish
Marine tanks need to cycle for 4 to 8 weeks with live rock before any fish can be put in. Your water will go up and down in this time frame and may test good at times but it does not mean it's ready.

Oh and the store is infested with ick, they always have it, most stores do

This scares me, my LFS has had one small case of it in the past 2 years or so.
That just don't sound right.

the store keeps their salinity at like .015

This also does not sound right, are you sure

IMO....take the fish back to the store to hold for you and let your tank cycle for 6 weeks do weekly water changes and then you should be ok for fish.

Good luck
Hazmat

 

[RamJet]

Ostrow, I used to keep my fish only tanks at 1.018 to 1.020. The fish can take it just fine but parisites and fungus have a hard time with it, uping the salinity may have brought them about. I dont think I would lower it again, but a fresh water dip might be in order, and if possible a cleaner shrimp.
Copper.... Ok, I said it. I know it makes everyones ears bleed to hear it, but it does work great out side of the reef.
Oh, 1.015 is crazy low, and the tank is not done cycling. She needs to do just what you and hazmat have said. I decided to throw that last statement in so you guys wouldnt come down too hard on me.

 

[tuwhada]

Obviously you never fully read the post.... I used BIO SPIRA... Have you ever heard of it. It is instant bacteria, it adds all the beneficial bacteria to your water and you can instantly add fish. NO CYCLE, the only thing you may get is an ammonia spike when you add your first few fish. I HAVE NO SPIKES> My ammonia, is zero, my nitrites are zero, my nitrates are zero.....So it is NOT THAT!!!!!!!!!!!! It is also VERY EXPENSIVE, but b/c I work at the store I get everything dirt cheap that is why I didn't mind buying it. BUt for a 90 gallon I needed 2 pouches and they normally sell for about $40 a pouch.

As for the salinity in the store you are right they keep it that low to prevent parasites. They too use copper. The store itself gets the ick b/c most of fish come in with it on that is hwy are salinity is low. I bet the store you deal with has ick more then they are willing to admit. My store won't admit but we also won't sell you one with ick either.

Your right the salinity increase is probably what did it. Besides a freshwater dip, any other ideas. I actually can do the whole copper thing b/c I am NOT going reef b/c I plan to get several puffers, I am not really sure what everybody else hates copper for, probably b/c youall have reefs right. Maybe I will get a cleaner though, it will help for now, and if my puffers eat him later on it won't be a big deal. I think the freshwater dip will be a LAST resort!!!!

THanks again

Christina

 

[ostrow]

Strikes me that 1.015 is still low even for fish only.

I know Biro Spira, as I am sure Ram and Haz do as well. If you think you have no cycle using that, well, all I can say is expect continuing problems. As for lfs and ick, perhaps they should reconsider the wholesaler they use. To suggest all fish come in diseased to all stores is just wrong. Some stores are discriminating in where and how they procure their fish.

Good luck. FW dip may be in order if the fish doesn't right itself.

 

[tuwhada]

yeah thanks for the help...

 

[RamJet]

Yep, I know what it is and what they claim. For those who dont, this is from their web site.

Bio-spira is a live nitrifying bacteria used to cycle/start a freshwater or saltwater aquarium, and therefore you can add a full normal load of fish immediately!! It is not intended to be used as a general ammonia/nitrite remover, and (if used for such purposes); it may take additional time for the bacteria to grow sufficient levels to eliminate the actual ammonia/nitrite levels already in your particular aquarium.

I dont put much faith in this claim of adding a full normal load of fish immediately.
What is a full normal load anyway? Would a full load not be more than a normal load? Well anyway, I use bacter vital, it does the same thing, but guess what! Your tank will still cycle. It all has to level out and these products only help it along.

I was planning on writting an article about setting up a tank quickly for that unexpected fish or if you would need a QT fast. Adding one of these products is only a small part of it. I will work on it as soon as I get some time.

 

[SaltyMist]

I very much believe in Bio Spira, and I believe what they mean is that you put the necessary amount of bio spira in your tank, then add a full load (meaning just that, the total amount of fish that you would have in your tank when your done adding fish, I also think this means that you need to account for fish growth, so obviously you wouldnt want to put in 5 , one inch oscars in a 10 gallon tank.)

The stuff does work, but the owner of one LFS said the jury is still out on the saltwater Bio Spira, and that he believes that you should setup the tank, with livesand, liverock, water then add the Biospira and one or two fish, then in 3 weeks time, you can add the full load of fish 1 or 2 fish per week until your tank is fully stocked with all the inhabitants it is going to have. But this seems to go against my idea that if you wait too long, then the good bacteria wont have enough load to eat, and thus die off to where only an amount of bacteria equal to the bio load put on the tank will be able to survive, and thus if you wait 3 weeks, bacteria may have died off and then you'll be adding too many fish at one time because the bacteria wont be built backup quickly enough like it is when you initially dump the package of bio spira into the tank. Lots of bacteria, needs lots of fish waste to keep alive.

I only have experience using the freshwater biospira, and it worked fine for my goldfish tank, never had an amonia or nitrite spike, and only nitrates are a little high, but thats because thery are dirty goldfish. The otherday I dumped in the bio spira to my 100 gallon tank with an oscar about 40 or so minutes later, and he didnt do well, I thought maybe this bio spira stuff isnt all that, but turned out the Oscar had some disease and it wasnt the Bio Spira.

In anyevent, if you dont add enough fish to a bio spira cycled tank, the bacteria will die off because they will have nothing to live on, which would defeat the purpose of using the product.

Im not bagging on anyone here, but the aquarium hobby seems to be one of those hobbies that take forever before something that's actually good catches on as being good. Bio Spira is GOOD, atleast for freshwater tanks. Hopefully one day I'll have the opportunity to startup a salt tank with it and see what happens, hopefully it's just as good.

// crawls down off my bio spira soapbox and back into the hole of despair, known as WORK.
---------------------------------

As to the original question, Im just not sure, Im no good at diagnosing diseases without actually seeing something. I have fish that will swim in the current all day long, but none of them actually try to scrape themselves like they have an itch. I would not lower your salinity if I were you at this point, if anything I would raise it maybe up to 1.023 or 1.024, my LFS keeps theres between 1.018 and 1.021 because they say thats what the wholesalers keep their fish in, so its easiest for them to keep it at that SG.

What was your acclimation process like? How long as he now been in your tank?

 

[tuwhada]

Thank you for the info. I really don't think I am having aproblem b/c of the cycling of hte tank. LIke I said I have been testing the water 1-2x a day and nothing. FInally last night I had alittle bit of a nitrate spike but I added some more fish and a clean up crew b/c of exactly what you said. But I think at this point I am just going through a spike of various algaes that are going to bloom and then die off, that is why I bought the cleanup crew. I do not think the algae is causing any problems it is just gettin on the glass and stuff.

i think my goby just died, I mean fish died and he was pretty big so maybe he was old. I will try another one but not know. My tang is still swimming and he is rubbing I think I see one or two spots on him but it is so hard to see b/c he swims sooo fast. So I am going to continue wiht the garlic, vitamin c, vitachem and vital dna. All of which help with the overall health of hte tank and will help with parasites. I also got a cleaner wrasse and a cleaner shrimp but I have seen them pick at the tang yet.

I did a water change today since I had that slight spike of nitrate, not terrible it was only at 20 but it has been 0 all this time. The water I used for the water change had a lower salinity in hopes to lower just a little bit. B/c I am doing fish on but I have the live rock I can not do copper, so I am going to maintain my salinity at about .018, I have to check it in a little while I probalby only got it down to about .20 at this point.

Also I work tomorrow so I am going to get some RO water and give the tang a freshwater dip. It might just help get rid of them and all the vitamins will help keep them off.

Thanks for the help
Christina

 

[tuwhada]

Also I spoke to another lfs around here and they also swear by the bio spira. He used it on a home installation of a 220 and was put a full load of fish within 48 hours with no problems.

Christina