Help on stocking

[Era101]

Hi guys,

I posted a while back with some of usual beginner problems, mainly getting myself into a (major) mini cycle. The advise I received here really helped getting everything back under control.

Now, with my cycle finally over I am looking at finalising my stocking ideas. I have a 10 and a 20 gallon tank, both of which are decently planted. I added some pictures below, any ideas or advise on advise on the design is welcome too.

My ideas are as followed:

20 G

Top tank
A pair of dwarf gourami
A male betta splendis

Middle tank
A swarm of 8 to 12 cardinals

Bottom dwellers
6 to 8 panda cory
2 or 3 otocinclus

The dwarf gourami and betta are already in the tank and have no problems getting along.

10 G

Top tank
A pair of honey gourami

Middle tank
A swarm of 8 to 10 neons

Botoom dwellers
15 to 20 shrimps (cherry, blue and amano)

I looked around and all fish requirements should be alright for tank size and the like. I checked aqadvisor and they said I am about 5 to 10 % overstocked on both tanks. I see a lot different opinions online on the accuracy of aqadvisor but I don't really know how else to calculate stock. I hope you guys can help me out!

 

[Lajos_Detari]

The Betta may kill your Cardinal Tetras.

Betta is not a community fish unless you are very lucky to find one that is peaceful.
Betta can only be kept with fish that are bigger and won't nip/attack the Betta big fins and tail.

Your 20 gallons stocking ideas look quite ok except:
1)Betta cannot be kept with small fish like Cardinal. The Betta will kill them.
2)Otocinclus need a bigger group probably at least 6 and they need mature tank with algae.. You may have to wait 2-3 mths for the algae to grow.
3)I have no experience of Dwarf Gouramis with small fish. They may get more aggressive when they grow bigger. Honey Gourami might be ok.

For 10gallons:
1)It's overcrowded.
2)I think you can only keep some very small fish like Dwarf Rasboras or Mosquito Rasboras with the shrimps.
3)Take note tht shrimps breed quite fast and the Neons and Honey Gouramis will definitely eat the shrimplets.

 

[utahfish]

betta belong in tank by themselves not in community tank. Dwarf gourami are territorial a 20 might be a little small for them and they may get aggressive with each other and other fish. Id only get 1.
Agree about the ottos, super cool fish they are also super sensitive and usually starved when in fish stores as fish store tanks dont have alot of algae in them and most ottos are wild caught so wont eat prepared foods like algae wafers or veggies. In the wild they live in huge groups sometimes in the hundreds as a shoaling fish they need to be in groups of at least 6 to feel safe and healthy-ish. You could exclude corydora for otto but keeping 6 otto with the list of cory tetra and gourami would be over stoxked, and gourami may pick on otto who are shy and sensetive.

 

[Byron]

I agree. You may think the Betta and gourami are "getting along," but this is possibly because the fish are still "settling" and have not yet settled down to being "normal," and it can change overnight. On no account have small colourful tetras in with a male Betta, this is asking for trouble. Betta are solitary fish, and the 10g would be a good home for him.

That leaves the 20g, with the gourami (you already have them, so now you have to hope for the best or re-home them). Before considering species, what is the GH and pH of the tap water?

Both tanks are beautiful, indeed. Very well-thought out aquascapes. Nice work. Let's see if we can match them with fish that will thrive.

 

[Era101]

The Betta may kill your Cardinal Tetras.

Betta is not a community fish unless you are very lucky to find one that is peaceful.
Betta can only be kept with fish that are bigger and won't nip/attack the Betta big fins and tail.

Your 20 gallons stocking ideas look quite ok except:
1)Betta cannot be kept with small fish like Cardinal. The Betta will kill them.
2)Otocinclus need a bigger group probably at least 6 and they need mature tank with algae.. You may have to wait 2-3 mths for the algae to grow.
3)I have no experience of Dwarf Gouramis with small fish. They may get more aggressive when they grow bigger. Honey Gourami might be ok.

For 10gallons:
1)It's overcrowded.
2)I think you can only keep some very small fish like Dwarf Rasboras or Mosquito Rasboras with the shrimps.
3)Take note tht shrimps breed quite fast and the Neons and Honey Gouramis will definitely eat the shrimplets.

Thanks for the input, funny to see as well that aqadvisor would be say I'd be 5% overstocked on my ideas. Guess their algorithm isn't quite there yet.

I haven't had problems with the betta and the neons. They were housed together in the 20 gallon for about a week or 2 before I got the 10 gallon with no fish deaths. I had to move them together to 10 gallon for a while when I was working on designing the 20 gallon and that was where he managed to kill 2 neons overnight. After placing them back in the 20 gallon he never really gave them a second glance, as long as they stayed out of his territory that is. Even then he'd chase them away and went back about his business. Maybe I'm lucky with this particular one?

Funny that you mention I'd need to wait for a few months befpre adding the otos. I'm actually actively trying to find them because I am fighting the algae growing in the tank. Unfortunately they are incredibly rare here. It took me almost 2 weeks to find 3 otos from 3 different places. I'd like to get a bigger group of them but I don't know when I'd be able to find more.

I actually am hoping that the shrimp reproduce fast, this way I can have a steady, cheap and honestly more natural food supply to add to the diet of the fish. Currently I am feeding them pellets with frozen blood worm twice a week. The omnivores of course also eat the roots of the frogbit. Hoping that with some live shrimp I can have a really well balanced diet for them.

 

[Era101]

betta belong in tank by themselves not in community tank. Dwarf gourami are territorial a 20 might be a little small for them and they may get aggressive with each other and other fish. Id only get 1.
Agree about the ottos, super cool fish they are also super sensitive and usually starved when in fish stores as fish store tanks dont have alot of algae in them and most ottos are wild caught so wont eat prepared foods like algae wafers or veggies. In the wild they live in huge groups sometimes in the hundreds as a shoaling fish they need to be in groups of at least 6 to feel safe and healthy-ish. You could exclude corydora for otto but keeping 6 otto with the list of cory tetra and gourami would be over stoxked, and gourami may pick on otto who are shy and sensetive.

The gouramies have actually been incredibly chill in the tank, they just kind float around and sometimes pick at the frogbit roots. So far I haven't seen any territorial behaviour, they generally tend to stay with their own kind of move throughout the tank. I have seen them establish a pecking order, there is one dwarf that is on the smaller/younger side and the rest sometimes pick on that one but other than that there's no real problems. They have left the otos in the tank be as well. Like I said, it has been a pain to find otos here, they are apparently rare because only the most expert aquascapers tend to buy them. At least, this is logic here. I honestly wouldn't mind taking smaller to no school of tetras if it means keeping the rest. Could a smaller school work, or would you any recommendations for fish to use instead of the tetras?

 

[Era101]

I agree. You may think the Betta and gourami are "getting along," but this is possibly because the fish are still "settling" and have not yet settled down to being "normal," and it can change overnight. On no account have small colourful tetras in with a male Betta, this is asking for trouble. Betta are solitary fish, and the 10g would be a good home for him.

That leaves the 20g, with the gourami (you already have them, so now you have to hope for the best or re-home them). Before considering species, what is the GH and pH of the tap water?

Both tanks are beautiful, indeed. Very well-thought out aquascapes. Nice work. Let's see if we can match them with fish that will thrive.

How long does the settling period take? The gourami and betta have been in the same tank for almost 3 weeks now. Am I on safe and lucky side or is there still a possibility that they haven't settled?

I'm using distilled water instead of tap, water here is honestly crap, it even has a 25 to 50 ppm value of no3.. I don't know the GH of the water but I manged to get the water to a PH of 7,5 - 7,6

Thanks! I know there are definitely more amazing tanks out there but I am still proud of mine. It is the first time trying my hand at aquascaping and it feels nice to be able to do something creative. Especially for a guy like me, aka horrible working with his hands.

 

[Era101]

On a side note, do you have any tips on making decent pictures of my tank? Somehow it always looks like my tank is cloudy and the light really makes it difficult to make out what is at the top.

 

[Essjay]

It can take a few months before fish show their true behaviour, 3 weeks is hardly any time for them to settle.

 

[LostBear]

Your tanks look beautiful, but IMO bth your tanks will be overstocked with the fish numbers you are considering.

Also -others have made suggestions re: fish temperaments which will impact on the peace of your tanks eg not housing the betta with anything small and 'darty' because that's just asking for trouble, so I won't repeat what they've suggested.

Personally I'd house the betta alone in the smaller tank and make it a show piece - perhaps a couple of snails and a few shrimps in with him (but expect him to eat any "shrimplets" they produce). You seem to have lots of plants and hidey-holes - both the shrimp and the betta will love it

Have a think about the suggestions for stocking the bigger tank - and don't stock to the maximum. One day there will be a power cut, and your filter and aerator may be off for a few hours, and in a full occupancy tank that can mean a lot of dead fish! Give them a bit of (literal) breathing space. And swimming space, too.

Your tanks are lovely - please post more photos when you have you fish in.

 

[Byron]

How long does the settling period take? The gourami and betta have been in the same tank for almost 3 weeks now. Am I on safe and lucky side or is there still a possibility that they haven't settled?

I agree with essjay. We have had a few threads over the past months about members who had a similar situation, thinking their Betta was just fine with other fish...but they awoke one morning to find the Betta on a rampage killing other fish. Or the opposite can happen. These traits are programmed into the species and we are not going to change the DNA of the Betta or the gopurami or any other fish just because we want to have something contrary to their natural state. Individual fish can be contrary to the norm for the species, but not often. And it is not being humane to the fish to force them into situations that are not in their best interests.

I'm using distilled water instead of tap, water here is honestly crap, it even has a 25 to 50 ppm value of no3.. I don't know the GH of the water but I manged to get the water to a PH of 7,5 - 7,6

Distilled water on its own should have a GH and KH of zero. Which is fine if you have soft water fish species. When you say you have managed to get the pH to 7.5, what exactly do you mean?

 

[Metalhead88]

Whoa. Judging by the layout of the tanks, it looks like you've been doing this for years. Great job.

 

[utahfish]

The gouramies have actually been incredibly chill in the tank, they just kind float around and sometimes pick at the frogbit roots. So far I haven't seen any territorial behaviour, they generally tend to stay with their own kind of move throughout the tank. I have seen them establish a pecking order, there is one dwarf that is on the smaller/younger side and the rest sometimes pick on that one but other than that there's no real problems. They have left the otos in the tank be as well. Like I said, it has been a pain to find otos here, they are apparently rare because only the most expert aquascapers tend to buy them. At least, this is logic here. I honestly wouldn't mind taking smaller to no school of tetras if it means keeping the rest. Could a smaller school work, or would you any recommendations for fish to use instead of the tetras?

Most slow moving Tetra do fine with dwarf gourami. Cardinals/ neons are often with dwarf gourami.
Also distilled water still needs to be de chlorinated as the chlorine is removed but not the chloramine the amine in chloramine is ammonia, which could be causing cloudiness. Dechlorinator will neutralize chlorine and chloramine.

 

[ClownLurch]

Tanks look great.
I’d stick the betta in on his own.
I’ve not been on here long but in searching back through old threads for general fish stocking advice there’s numerous threads featuring bettas in shared tanks defended by owners claiming their fish is different from the accepted norm.
A few later admit they were wrong after waking to a corpse ridden tank but let’s be honest here most aren’t gonna rush back here to admit their mistake.
The OP may have a nice guy betta but why play with god with other fishes lives?

 

[Lajos_Detari]

If I am not wrong, most Oto are wild caught. So, might be difficult for you to get them.
I guess you just have to wait until the LFS has new stock.

Some fish will show their aggressiveness and dominant when they become more mature but some fish will show aggressiveness even from young.

It's like keeping a young wild dog with the sheeps or a lion cub with sheeps. LOL.